Artillery Wheels ?

[Greg Myers]

[Greg Myers]

All of this stuff is just weird to me.

[ajulia]

Hello there friend! its jus that ole'school bloodline ya carrying lol! Artilleries are the coolest for vintage iron! Would love a few sets i might add!

[Bernard Kron]

I think, as always, it's all about how they're used. I recently used some "Divco" or "Artillery" style wheels, really Ford 18" truck wheels, on a project and they provided the unifying keynote I needed. (Picture in my signature) But a novel design feature for the simple purpose of providing a shocking effect or checking it off your list "of"cool stuff I gotta use" can often be a visual disaster.

Edited December 30, 2010 by gbk1

[charlie8575]

Artillery wheels were used as regular equipment on cars in the mid-1920s to early 1930s, in both pressed steel and wooden designs.

They belong on those cars.

Not on new ones.

Charlie Larkin

[Eric Stone]

I'm flipping through this copy of "The American Hot Rod" by Dean Batchelor I picked up last week, and it's chock full of vintage photos from the '30s-'50s of dry lakes and salt flat racing, and I'm not really seeing any artillery or milk truck wheels... Most of the cars in here are running Kelsey Hayes wire wheels, or steelies, with or without trim rings and caps. It was explained that this was because most guys would upgrade to hydraulic brakes, and took the newer wheels along with them because they fit properly since they had different backspacing than the standard Model A or '32 wheel.

Maybe the steelies and caps have become such a classic style, they're "normal" for old cars (or overdone in some people's eyes), so guys nowadays are trying to do their current rods up differently while still trying to be old school. Kinda like how everybody runs primer nowadays, when back in the day it was pretty standard to go ahead and paint your car and keep it from looking like junk...

[Joe Handley]

I guess it depends on the car and how it's built on the artillery wheels, personally I think they're kinda neat looking and might not look bad on a Pre-WW2 car or truck. Not sure how the milk truck rims look though, never seen those.

All of this stuff is just weird to me.

I do like those too, they kinda have an "aero" look to them even though they're a vintage part and would look right on a more speed oriented hot rod. Those lights would look great on something like a road going Track-T or Lakes Roadster with some kinda of moon disk type wheels. Even if you're going to do a modern street rod like that, use the newer projector style lights in those with large aluminum disk type wheels and a nicely smoothed body.

[Greg Myers]

I'm flipping through this copy of "The American Hot Rod" by Dean Batchelor I picked up last week, and it's chock full of vintage photos from the '30s-'50s of dry lakes and salt flat racing, and I'm not really seeing any artillery or milk truck wheels... Most of the cars in here are running Kelsey Hayes wire wheels, or steelies, with or without trim rings and caps. It was explained that this was because most guys would upgrade to hydraulic brakes, and took the newer wheels along with them because they fit properly since they had different backspacing than the standard Model A or '32 wheel.

Maybe the steelies and caps have become such a classic style, they're "normal" for old cars (or overdone in some people's eyes), so guys nowadays are trying to do their current rods up differently while still trying to be old school. Kinda like how everybody runs primer nowadays, when back in the day it was pretty standard to go ahead and paint your car and keep it from looking like junk...

I believe you've hit the nail on the head, and I firmly believe it's the old hot rod adage: "Monkey see monkey do". and away we go on another hot rod adventure.

Edited December 31, 2010 by Greg Myers

[Terry Sumner]

I think it's just the old saying, "To each his own."

Personally, my own likes are similar to yours. I don't care for rusty cars, military styled cars, so-called Rat Rods, or any other faddish trend of the day. I prefer my hotrods either traditional or with modern running gear. And I prefer cars with nice glossy finishes.

But if someone else likes to have real cars or build models of cars that I don't personally care for...well that's their business. More power to 'em!

[Greg Myers]

Nothing like a nose bleed up in the air gasser

[Modelmartin]

Nothing like a nose bleed up in the air

That thing is bordering on Monster Truck territory!!

[Modelmartin]

Artillery wheels were used as regular equipment on cars in the mid-1920s to early 1930s, in both pressed steel and wooden designs.

They belong on those cars.

Not on new ones.

Charlie Larkin

Actually, artillery wheels as they are called are the original automotive wheels because they are merely adaptations from horsedrawn carriage and wagon wheels. The first cars were just motorized wagons. It was a rare vehicle that used wirewheels prior to 1910 or so. Wirewheels were seen as light duty and were adapted from bicycles. They were more expensive, too.

I suppose one of these days we will see 30 inch wooden wheels on donks!

[Greg Myers]

Whatsup with the "call outs" on these cars? I've seen many with chrome or diamond encrusted numbers eluding to the wheel size, i'm guessing.It isn't enough they run the monster wheels?

[Greg Myers]

Unlike the call outs for cubic inches the wheel size seems rather obvious. Kinda silly in my opinion.

[Modelmartin]

Whatsup with the "call outs" on these cars? I've seen many with chrome or diamond encrusted numbers eluding to the wheel size, i'm guessing.It isn't enough they run the monster wheels?

When I had my 1960 Austin Mini I could have had the number " 10 " called out on my fender!

[Art Anderson]

Actually, artillery wheels as they are called are the original automotive wheels because they are merely adaptations from horsedrawn carriage and wagon wheels. The first cars were just motorized wagons. It was a rare vehicle that used wirewheels prior to 1910 or so. Wirewheels were seen as light duty and were adapted from bicycles. They were more expensive, too.

I suppose one of these days we will see 30 inch wooden wheels on donks!

The very first cars used laced wire wheels, primarily, given their light weight and strength relative to the cars on which they were mounted. However, as vehicle weights increased dramatically in the first decade of the 20th Century, given also the very poor inadequate streets and roads of the time, wood spoked wheels became the thing, simply for durability and yet moderate weight themselves. Pretty much the standard wood used in those wheels was 'second growth" hickory, for its tendency to be at least a bit springy, and resistance to breakage (although, given sufficient side impact, a wooden wheel will collapse!). The term "Artillery" was used to describe these wheels, as they were made to be rugged, with fairly heavy, oval-cross section spokes, very much like heavy cannon used from their beginnings through the First World War.

However, there is very little reference to "artillery wheels" in automotive literature until describing the wheels of 1930's cars. Even after the introduction of heavy-spoked triple laced wire wheels, even the early disc wheels, several carmakers continued to offer wooden spoked wheels, albeit with all steel rims permanently fixed (Packard and Chrysler were known for this style wheel, both companies still offered them as late as 1933). That's when the term "artillery wheel" began to appear (from everything I've ever read), to describe that type of wheel in more modern, rugged terms, rather than to just say "wooden wheels", thus-described to differentiate them from wire wheels, and the upcoming second-generation steel disc wheels.

The demountable steel disc wheel was first popularized by GM, Nash, Hudson, Hupp and even Auburn, and to give them some style, designers came up with center sections having short, stubby spokes pressed into what otherwise would have looked very much like the steelies of our time. Those too, were characterized in sales literature, advertising and in enthusiast magazines of the day as "artillery wheels". And if nothing else, the steel artillery wheels did have more resistance to side impacts, which made sense, given the still rather poor roads along with tires that still could not be depended on to keep a car from sliding sideways in wet or snowy weather--nothing like a hard smack of a steel wheel into a curb to create a permanent wobble!

There were also a few cars, mostly in Europe, produced with cast iron artillery wheels, those had demountable rims for the most part, the same sort of rim design and attachment popularized with wood spoke wheels.

As an aside here: The "wire wheels" on Fords 1926-35 were NOT wire wheels at all, in fact, Ford went to great lengths to say that. Rather, those are more correctly termed "welded steel spoke wheels", and were a Ford development which they then engaged Kelsey Hayes to produce, and later licensed their use by GM, Chrysler and others. Those wheels use a forged steel spoke, mushroomed at both ends, which were pressed into place between hub and rim in a jig, and then resistance-welded together into a very tough, yet light weight wheel. The only way to bend one of those wheels is to bend a spoke or two, which didn't often happen outside of a major accident. Early rodders used '35 Ford 6:00-16 steel spoke wheels simply because they would bolt up directly to any Ford brake drum made from April 1928 clear through to 1948, and yet they were still lighter than the commonly available steel disc wheels Ford introduced in 1940.

It wasn't until decades later that Kelsey Hayes started producing welded spoke steel wheels again, under their own brand name, as aftermarket equipment.

Art

Actually, artillery wheels as they are called are the original automotive wheels because they are merely adaptations from horsedrawn carriage and wagon wheels. The first cars were just motorized wagons. It was a rare vehicle that used wirewheels prior to 1910 or so. Wirewheels were seen as light duty and were adapted from bicycles. They were more expensive, too.

I suppose one of these days we will see 30 inch wooden wheels on donks!

The very first cars used laced wire wheels, primarily, given their light weight and strength relative to the cars on which they were mounted. However, as vehicle weights increased dramatically in the first decade of the 20th Century, given also the very poor inadequate streets and roads of the time, wood spoked wheels became the thing, simply for durability and yet moderate weight themselves. Pretty much the standard wood used in those wheels was 'second growth" hickory, for its tendency to be at least a bit springy, and resistance to breakage (although, given sufficient side impact, a wooden wheel will collapse!). The term "Artillery" was used to describe these wheels, as they were made to be rugged, with fairly heavy, oval-cross section spokes, very much like heavy cannon used from their beginnings through the First World War.

However, there is very little reference to "artillery wheels" in automotive literature until describing the wheels of 1930's cars. Even after the introduction of heavy-spoked triple laced wire wheels, even the early disc wheels, several carmakers continued to offer wooden spoked wheels, albeit with all steel rims permanently fixed (Packard and Chrysler were known for this style wheel, both companies still offered them as late as 1933). That's when the term "artillery wheel" began to appear (from everything I've ever read), to describe that type of wheel in more modern, rugged terms, rather than to just say "wooden wheels", thus-described to differentiate them from wire wheels, and the upcoming second-generation steel disc wheels.

The demountable steel disc wheel was first popularized by GM, Nash, Hudson, Hupp and even Auburn, and to give them some style, designers came up with center sections having short, stubby spokes pressed into what otherwise would have looked very much like the steelies of our time. Those too, were characterized in sales literature, advertising and in enthusiast magazines of the day as "artillery wheels". And if nothing else, the steel artillery wheels did have more resistance to side impacts, which made sense, given the still rather poor roads along with tires that still could not be depended on to keep a car from sliding sideways in wet or snowy weather--nothing like a hard smack of a steel wheel into a curb to create a permanent wobble!

There were also a few cars, mostly in Europe, produced with cast iron artillery wheels, those had demountable rims for the most part, the same sort of rim design and attachment popularized with wood spoke wheels.

As an aside here: The "wire wheels" on Fords 1926-35 were NOT wire wheels at all, in fact, Ford went to great lengths to say that. Rather, those are more correctly termed "welded steel spoke wheels", and were a Ford development which they then engaged Kelsey Hayes to produce, and later licensed their use by GM, Chrysler and others. Those wheels use a forged steel spoke, mushroomed at both ends, which were pressed into place between hub and rim in a jig, and then resistance-welded together into a very tough, yet light weight wheel. The only way to bend one of those wheels is to bend a spoke or two, which didn't often happen outside of a major accident. Early rodders used '35 Ford 6:00-16 steel spoke wheels simply because they would bolt up directly to any Ford brake drum made from April 1928 clear through to 1948, and yet they were still lighter than the commonly available steel disc wheels Ford introduced in 1940.

It wasn't until decades later that Kelsey Hayes started producing welded spoke steel wheels again, under their own brand name, as aftermarket equipment.

Art

Edited December 31, 2010 by Art Anderson

[charlie8575]

I suppose one of these days we will see 30 inch wooden wheels on donks!

Please....don't give them any bad ideas....

Charlie Larkin

[Modelmartin]

The Benz Patent Motorwagen (1886) and Henry Ford's Quadricycle(his first car from 1896) had wires. They were tiny cars. The 1890s Panhards mostly had wood wheels. Wire wheels were definitely around but the vast majority had wood wheels. Bugatti was one of the first if not the first to use cast aluminum wheels in 1924!

[sak]

Saw this at a show this summer. First time I seen this trend. Would look cooler if the rears were widened some.

[southpier]

the call-outs are in reference to the size of the wheels. the above picture would be 26" wheels on whatever car or truck that is. some find it neccesary, ....

it's similar to people who put everything they own in their signature

[Joe Handley]

Whatsup with the "call outs" on these cars? I've seen many with chrome or diamond encrusted numbers eluding to the wheel size, i'm guessing.It isn't enough they run the monster wheels?

Most of the time I've seen those things stuck on some poor car, it was still rolling on it's factory 14" Steelies and cheesy plastic hubcaps...............wonder if I would catch nonsense for ones that read 28" or 29" to my Jeep.........it's tires are around that tall