Chuck Most Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 It varies due to costs and how much you want the kit to retail for, but 10,000 is pretty close to where you start to break even these days. I'd say with the higher priced kits from companies like Trumpeter and Moebius that know up front they're going to sell less kits because they're not as established in the model car world it's probably more like 5,000. Guess I hadn't considered the retail cost- I was just kind of assuming an MSRP of around twenty bucks or so. Kind of scares me, the idea of Trumpeter selling 5,000 of any of its car kits. Moebius? Hoping they sell 15,000 each of their current and upcoming auto kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 but by the mid 80s quality was definately improving. The opposite is true. The big three added the first computerized engine management systems to carryover early Eighties cars with already indifferent build quality. It ended in a total desaster. It was not before the late Eighties until the situation was halfways under control. Which raises another question: When will we get model kits of the Eighties cars? LeBaron, Bustleback Seville, Plodge Granfifthlomat (another 1-0 for the diecasters so far), AMC Eagle, the last Hurst Olds... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Ford never worked out the bugs with the EEC III engine management setup, from what I'm told. When I bought my '81 Lincoln Town Car in the late 1990's, my auto shop teacher (who had been a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury tech at the time) was mortified. He told me the system was no good when the cars were new, and he doubted that 18 years and 74,000 miles had done much good for it. Mine also had issues with the electronic dashboard. Sure, much of that could be attributed to a nearly twenty year old car simply showing its age, but he told me that when people asked him about buying a new Lincoln (or any other FoMoCo product of the era), he specifically told them to avoid ANYTHING with the digital dash. GM seemed to stick with junk (or at least questionable) electronics well into the '80's. Anybody remember Vic? You know, the 'Visual Information Center' used in certain models of the Olds Toronado? Just about all the magazine reviews of the era on that car reviewed the car itself favorably, but reccomended you steer clear of any equipped with VIC if you were interested in buying one. And don't get me started on the talking Chryslers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 When will we get model kits of the Eighties cars? LeBaron, Bustleback Seville, Plodge Granfifthlomat (another 1-0 for the diecasters so far), AMC Eagle, the last Hurst Olds... LeBaron? Maybe. I'd prefer an earlier, RWD model, but I know some would be falling all over themselves for the K-Car convertible version. Bustleback Seville? Not for me, but that's not to say nobody would buy one. Plodge Granfifthlomat? Sign me up for any of them. I'm sure the cop car guys would love a Dippy sedan. How many movies made between about 1978 and 1992 did NOT have a fleet of these things as cop cars? AMC Eagle? I'd be in for one, but I think that one might be a bit too hip for the room, even now. The last Hurst Olds? If you ask me, any good kit of a G-body GM coupe would sell well. I'm convinced the only reason these haven't sold well in the past is because the existing kits are a- unfortunate products of the era which produced them (MPC Monte Carlo... and it could be argued that one is the 'wrong year' by many anyway) or b- pure junk (Trumpeter '78 Monte Carlo). Now, the later Monogram Montes did fare pretty well, but they were better kits than the MPC. I'm still a little miffed at Revell for never releasing that '87 Cutlass from a few years back- the tooling for that could have made a pretty cool little Hurst/Olds replica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Moebius? Hoping they sell 15,000 each of their current and upcoming auto kits. So are they! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 There is a problem with American SATCO's business model: they made resin LHD dashboards for Aoshima kits, whose subject matters by the mid-to-late 90's have turned to primarily cars that were only sold in Japan, hence no LHD version to speak of. Of the few ones that also had export version (like the Lexus GS and the Miata), Aoshima produced a special LHD edition with the correct badges in-house. I think what really killed SATCO's product line was that the LHD versions they did sell had the poorly done resin parts. Add to that the fact that SATCO never was very good at following through on new product, and I think those aspects created the lack of interest in their subjects. And if interest was lukewarm to begin with... well, there you have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darin Bastedo Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Um, I'm curious about your numbers. Has any kit sold 5 million copies? I've read the AMT Star Trek Enterprise model is the best selling kit ever, even leading to AMT making multiple tools to keep up with sales. Does anyone know how many copies of that kit have been sold? From others numbers quoted I'm under the impression 50-100,000 is a good selling kit which means "we" (assuming there are really only 10-15,000 "hardcore" modelers, which also seems suspect). Only need to buy 5 - 10 of each to make it a success, not 500. Ok, heres the expaination. You say each of us would "only have to buy 5-10 of each" to make a model kit a success to do a run of. Ok wellthat seems easy enough until you count howmany kits are released each year. Just to keep Revell afloat for the first half of 2012 if we each bought 5-10 of each 23 kits announced last weekend, each of us would be on the hook for 114-228 kits. Then we still have to take care of revell, mobius, lindberg polar lights etc. Of course a few of us might want some old stuff off of ebay or some Revell of germany, Tamiya, fujimi hasegawa etc. As you can see my figure of a 500 kits seems reasonable if we contituted the bulk of the model car market as many assume we do here. We don't very few of us even buy 100 new kits a year. We are the minority, no matter how vocal or enthusiastic we seem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Barrow Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Ok, heres the expaination. You say each of us would "only have to buy 5-10 of each" to make a model kit a success to do a run of. Ok wellthat seems easy enough until you count howmany kits are released each year. Just to keep Revell afloat for the first half of 2012 if we each bought 5-10 of each 23 kits announced last weekend, each of us would be on the hook for 114-228 kits. Then we still have to take care of revell, mobius, lindberg polar lights etc. Of course a few of us might want some old stuff off of ebay or some Revell of germany, Tamiya, fujimi hasegawa etc. As you can see my figure of a 500 kits seems reasonable if we contituted the bulk of the model car market as many assume we do here. We don't very few of us even buy 100 new kits a year. We are the minority, no matter how vocal or enthusiastic we seem. And how many times do guys wait until the swap meet/yard sale tables are full of these kits for $5 or less to buy those 5-10 pieces? As I said in an earlier post, lots of people say they'd buy this or that, but when it comes time to lay the cash on the barrel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) As I said in an earlier post, lots of people say they'd buy this or that, but when it comes time to lay the cash on the barrel... ...the diecast guys have snatched it already because the kit producers are snoozers. Edited October 24, 2011 by Junkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Simple fact is, not everybody is going to buy five or ten of the same kit. BUT, and this is an extreme case- one guy might buy 20 of one kit, then that would compensate for the guys who bought one or none of the kit. I've done that (though never all 20 at once), and I know a guy who literally has a 4 x 8 storage shed crammed floor to ceiling, wall to wall with nothing but Kenworth truck kits. I do think many of us (if not all of us) are guilty of buying multiples, but the thing is, not everybody is going to buy a kit of a 1956 Whachamacallit no matter how nice that kit may be, because it simply isn't their thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Irwin Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 You do know that faulty Cadillac engine came out in 1981, right? 1981 isn't the '70's. Not that it matters too much, but I don't think the '80's were much better than the '70's as far as automotive quality, yet those vehicles don't get heaped with the same amount of scorn for whatever reason. Old's 5.7 diesel and Chrysler lean burn then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Old's 5.7 diesel and Chrysler lean burn then. Never had any issues with the Lean Burn Mopars myself, but I had family members who LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVED their 350 diesels. (And by loved I mean loathed.) My neighbor had a Cutlass Ciera with the V6 diesel and he never had a problem with it, but the 350s seemed like a 50/50 shot as far as dependability went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Irwin Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I worked at an Olds dealership through the 70's. I don't remember a good one coming through the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 The few that made it to 60,000 were pretty much guaranteed to be good cars. My uncle had one with well over twice that- he finally got rid of it because the body was shot. He worked for the Olds plant in Lansing from '66 until '96 (it became an engine plant later on, IIRC), but almost all the cars he's ever owned were Buicks. But yeah, his was more the exception than the rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmartin Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 See, most British cars of the Seventies didn't have any quality problems. They weren't built at all. Just a few weeks ago I passed a Triumph Stag dead on the side of the freeway!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Triumph... that was a product of British Leland at that time, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaronw Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Ok, heres the expaination. You say each of us would "only have to buy 5-10 of each" to make a model kit a success to do a run of. Ok wellthat seems easy enough until you count howmany kits are released each year. Just to keep Revell afloat for the first half of 2012 if we each bought 5-10 of each 23 kits announced last weekend, each of us would be on the hook for 114-228 kits. Then we still have to take care of revell, mobius, lindberg polar lights etc. Of course a few of us might want some old stuff off of ebay or some Revell of germany, Tamiya, fujimi hasegawa etc. As you can see my figure of a 500 kits seems reasonable if we contituted the bulk of the model car market as many assume we do here. We don't very few of us even buy 100 new kits a year. We are the minority, no matter how vocal or enthusiastic we seem. That makes more sense, I thought you were saying 500 of each kit, not a combination. Your number for serious modelers is quite a bit lower than other estimates I've seen, but these are all just educated guesses, so really no way to really know with any certainty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmartin Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Compare a Chevy Chevette or Ford Pinto of the 70s to a Dodge Omni or Ford Escort of the 80s. The funny thing about those cars is that the Chevettes were restyled Isuzus and the original Omni Horizons had VW engines in them!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 And really- who knows how many active model car builders there are? There are 8,000 members on this forum. Even if you subtract inactive accounts, double accounts from the same member, troll accounts, and members who have passed on, I think you'd still be left with a fairly sizable number. And not every modeler is a member of this forum, or even any other forum- I'm the only modeler in my area who is active in model car message boards to any degree. I can think of twenty active modelers in my area, and I'm the only one who frequents any message boards. So, in my area anyway, there is a twenty-to-one ratio of modelers who do not use message boards. Would, say, 7,000 multiplied by 21 give a reliable number as far as people partaking in the model car hobby? Who knows? There's really no 'scientific method' in play with regards to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmartin Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I have asked this before and I suspect I will likely utter it again before I expire. Don't any of you guys have enough kits to build already? HUH? The kit collecting side of your split personalities is taking over. It's like having the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other except it is the kit builder and the kit collector fighting for your soul. We all think we will build it but we actually collect kits much more. The model companies like that. They sell more product, obviously. I actually don't care if another new kit is ever made again! I have enough to build! However, I could change my mind if that 1910 Olds Limited is actually tooled up. But make sure it has the Touring car and Limousine bodies in it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmartin Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Another interesting thought about 70s cars is that the most popular ones could be turned into great racecars like Vegas. Who has even seen a stock Vega model built? I have seen lots of Pro/Stocks and Funny Cars. The same holds true for the Dusters/Demons, Ford Fairmont, Chev Monza, etc. Some can be done as muscle cars like the Duster/Dmon but it has to be really an interesting car before people will have an interest in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I have asked this before and I suspect I will likely utter it again before I expire. Don't any of you guys have enough kits to build already? HUH? The kit collecting side of your split personalities is taking over. It's like having the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other except it is the kit builder and the kit collector fighting for your soul. We all think we will build it but we actually collect kits much more. The model companies like that. They sell more product, obviously. I actually don't care if another new kit is ever made again! I have enough to build! However, I could change my mind if that 1910 Olds Limited is actually tooled up. But make sure it has the Touring car and Limousine bodies in it! Andy- you master that '10 Olds Limited, touring and limousine bodies, and I guarantee I'll buy AND BUILD both. You might not like what I do with them, but I guarantee they'll get built. As far as hoarding kits? Guilty as charged. To me just looking for lost souls to fill the Demon Fleet is half the fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 I have asked this before and I suspect I will likely utter it again before I expire. Don't any of you guys have enough kits to build already? Yes. Absolutely. I have 60 kits, a fairly small collection compared to some here. However it comes down to what-would-you-rather-build. Would you rather build yet another version of a 40 year old tooling that has been reissued twenty times and everyone has seen done any one of a thousand ways, or get in on a brand new, fresh and exceptionally well engineered model (hopefully) which you can build in your own unique way and sort of put your own stamp on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Irwin Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 As far as the 70's are concerned it seems to break about 73 - 74, early is OK, later, not so much. Pre 5 MPH bumper? Or pre oil crisis? Or pre tacky stick on trim? All of the above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I've actually considered converting an MPC Stutz into a similar-vintage Olds, just because a Stutz isn't obscure enough for me, since it (obviously) already exists as a kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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