I don't care for it.

[Jantrix]

This is the conundrum that faces me frequently here. I'll see a model that could definitely have been done better or I just don't care for the design or the work done to it.

Should I say so? So many times I end up with a post that looks like, "Nice engine detail, but your chop top looks bad/mold lines are still visible/whatever". And then I think about it, imagine the potential backlash, and then delete the whole thing. I'm NOT a master modeler and don't claim to be, but I do know good work from bad.

Modeling is a learning curve. You get better as you go. I figure the builder has got to know it looks bad and will do better next time. Am I right in this train of thought? Or does it need to be pointed out? As a dad of two teenagers, I've learned IT NEEDS TO BE POINTED OUT. But is it necessary here?

A lot of us subscribe to the rule Thumper's Mama made famous. "If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all." Are we doing right as fellow modelers in doing so?

[Joe Nunes]

Rob, one should always remember that what looks good, or doesn't, to one person may be entirely different to others viewing a particular model. I'd like to think that constructive criticism is best received when it's actually requested by the builder of the model, otherwise your best intensions may not come across as such. Just my 2 cents worth...

Joe

Edited February 28, 2012 by rhoadapple

[LoneWolf15]

Rob,

Frustrating , isn't it ? One thing that you cannot teach over the Internet , my friend , is patience ! I do believe that I know exactly who and what you are talking about , I felt your pain as I read your post on the subject .

As good as the information is on this forum , there is also the bad ! It doesn't seem to matter when it comes to the age group , it goes straight across the board . Alot of people don't realize that misinformation or false praise can put a dent in the hobby in the long run .

When these builds are taken to the shows , that's when the education and the painful lessons begin ! To keep the pot from boiling over , maybe a private message pointing out the flaws might be best !

If they react favorably to the criticism , continue to help out whenever you can . If not , it's the " pearls before the swine " parable and you have to forget about it !

There are individuals that preach " cheap " all the time in the hobby . All well and good until one starts using material that are completely out of scale and or incompatible with the plastic kit itself . The only consistent state that cheap materials produce ? , inconsistent results , time and time again !

[Guest]

I go by Gregg's rule on the workbench section. If the person posting doesn't ask for it,I don't give it. It's hard to give constructive criticism without coming off like a jerk or a "know it all". One must choose their words very wisely when offering any type of criticism. I guess I'm just not that wise yet. BTW, I'm pretty sure I know the exact case you're talking about and I was as tempted as you were.

[mopar68]

Not sure.

I look back at models I built two years or more ago, and I know they look bad. I don't need anyone to tell me that either, I can see it for myself Regardless, when I first built them I thought I'd done an excellent job. What I mean is, maybe people get better anyway, without getting having to told how to, if that makes any sense.

I learn alot from looking at other people's builds; looking at what they do and how they do it. If I hadn't joined modeling forums, I'd still be pumping out crappy builds. But it was seeing the awesome work that everyone else was doing that made me want to try new things; I think if people had pointed out too many faults in my builds I would've been discouraged. I can definately see your point though,you can't improve if you don't know what you're doing wrong.

There's a fine line between constructive criticism and a negative comment, and it's all up to the way it's worded as to how it will be taken. So rather than "Nice engine detail, but your chop top looks bad", maybe something more like "Nice engine detail, only the chop top is a little rough. Next time, maybe you could try ........., this is the way I do it and it makes it alot easier to line up the pillars" etc.. Like I said, it's the way you word your comment that will determine whether it benfits the builder or just discourages them. At least be nice while they're new, until they can handle the hard honest truth

Just my 2 cents, not meant to offend.

[Terry Sumner]

I raised this similar question in a thread a couple of years ago. Tried to find it for you but apparently it's gone?? Anyway, I've always thought we do a disservice to our fellow modelers when everyone repeats over and over... "nice job"...or something to that effect on a poorly done model. My thought was that the modeler then thinks that he is doing fine when in reality pointing out obvious flaws and maybe telling him how to correct those flaws would help the poor guy get better!

I used to try to point out things that could have been done better but as Joe says, "your best intensions may not come across as such."

And as a result of my observations I have learned that some people don't like me now because I used to offer my thoughts honestly and now think I'm a "Grumpy Old Man." So I will no longer offer any comments on anyone's model unless it's a really well done one and I can honestly comment on what a great job that has been done! If I see a model that's poorly done I just won't make any comments at all any more....

Oh, and btw...I am def NOT a grumpy old man. If you knew me in person you would agree! No one who is "grumpy" could possibly continue to be a club, wedding and party deejay since 1977 by being grumpy!

[Zarana-X]

Truth & honesty wont make you popular. It's all about tactfull delivery and constructive criticism.

Now, where did i leave my tact?

[jerseyjunker1]

if i do something and it looks like garbage i like to be told. it does not hurt my feelings as i have skin like leather. however other people have thin skin and their feelings are easy to hurt. i guess what i am saying is there could be a post called ( to tell the truth ) where we can show a model and and ask for your honest opinion. or when you post a model that we are not sure about we can just ask for opinions.lol

Edited February 28, 2012 by jerseyjunker1

[crazyjim]

This is tough one, Rob. I try to be positive in my comments as a way to encourage every builder to do better on the next build. I've also sent PMs to builders because my comments were not so favorable and I didn't want them available to everyone. I remember your comments about my painting at Jaxcon 2011, Rob, and those comments pushed me to try to do better painting. There are some young builders here and some who haven't built anything in quite a long time and we're involved a supposedly dying hobby. I would really hate to be the person who made unfavorable public comments and had some builder quit the hobby.

[Dr. Cranky]

Great topic, Rob. I always try to stay positive, believing that every model a builder puts together is one step closer to perfection. But I also know that perfection doesn't exist or will always be in the eye of the beholder.

You learn as you go. You to try to be encouraging and at the same time, as Donn says above, you try to teach patience and the right eye for technique and details.

Everything else is part of the learning curve and what I call the styrene journey. We all have our paths to follow, and we also get lots of great examples of what to do right next time on this forum.

[george 53]

I've been building for over 50 years, and I STILL learn things from seeing others building techniques. Learning NEVER stops. BUT one can be SO disenchanted by the wrong remarks, no matter HOW well put. IF the build is nice, OK let him know, It MAY help the builder strive to get better. HOW you word your advice and opinion can be VERY helpful OR hurtful to a budding builder. I try to think of the builders skills, age , an at WHAT they built before I comment. Sometimes you can judge someones age by WHAT they've built. I don't expect to see a 16 year old kid do a slam bang job onna 69 Charger simply caz he doesn't know what they were like to see IN THE FLESH, or steel as it were. Guys get into the hobby for various reasons, Me, caz I LIKE cars, others want to see what they can accomplish with plastic, and still others just go off on their own tangent and SCRATCH build their cars. But it DOES help to KNOW just WHAT your building, so you can add the things to it that may not have come with the kit.I try to be helpful in my advice, but if I see a badly built model, I keep my mouth shut. There's TOO many guys here that don't care, or who's opinion of themselve ELEVATE them above the others, and THEY can't help but point flaws out inna kids or beginners model. I'll just let them be who they are, and keep my opinions to myself. After all, we ALL have one.

[Harry P.]

If I see a model that I think looks especially well done, I'll say so.

And if I see a model that has obvious flaws or mistakes, I'll point them out.

My opinion: If you post photos of your work on a public forum, anyone has the right to comment. I don't like the idea of false praise, and I don't like the idea that some people have-that if you post pictures of your work, your photos are somehow magically immune to comments. Forums don't work that way. In my opinion, posting photos of your work on a public forum means your work is open to comments and criticism.

If you can't take criticism, if you can't take other people's opinion... don't post photos of your work. And if you do post, realize that forum members have the right to make comments.

[cruz]

If I see a model that I think looks especially well done, I'll say so.

And if I see a model that has obvious flaws or mistakes, I'll point them out.

My opinion: If you post photos of your work on a public forum, anyone has the right to comment. I don't like the idea of false praise, and I don't like the idea that some people have-that if you post pictures of your work, your photos are somehow magically immune to comments. Forums don't work that way. In my opinion, posting photos of your work on a public forum means your work is open to comments and criticism.

If you can't take criticism, if you can't take other people's opinion... don't post photos of your work. And if you do post, realize that forum members have the right to make comments.

Could not have said it any better Harry!!!

[Terry Sumner]

If I see a model that I think looks especially well done, I'll say so.

And if I see a model that has obvious flaws or mistakes, I'll point them out.

My opinion: If you post photos of your work on a public forum, anyone has the right to comment. I don't like the idea of false praise, and I don't like the idea that some people have-that if you post pictures of your work, your photos are somehow magically immune to comments. Forums don't work that way. In my opinion, posting photos of your work on a public forum means your work is open to comments and criticism.

If you can't take criticism, if you can't take other people's opinion... don't post photos of your work. And if you do post, realize that forum members have the right to make comments.

I agree Harry...but it isn't worth the flak you get....at least not to me anymore.

[Dr. Cranky]

But Terry, you are already wearing your helmet!

[Harry P.]

I agree Harry...but it isn't worth the flak you get....at least not to me anymore.

Well, that's something everyone has to decide for themselves.

So far I haven't gotten any flak. And if I ever do, I'll just point out to that person that when they post their work on a public forum, that means the public is allowed to comment. I'll never understand why some people think that if they post photos of their work, there is some sort of "magic shield" around their work that "protects" their work from being commented on.

[John Teresi]

I think we need Dr.Phil..........to give his advise?

Edited February 28, 2012 by John Teresi

[LoneWolf15]

Dagnabbit , Harry !

If the magic shields aren't working anymore , why didn't you say so ? Get em fixed Tinman ! Oh , by the way , straighten up Terry's chin strap , his helmet's canted a wee bit to the left .

[wraith]

If I see a model that I think looks especially well done, I'll say so.

And if I see a model that has obvious flaws or mistakes, I'll point them out.

My opinion: If you post photos of your work on a public forum, anyone has the right to comment. I don't like the idea of false praise, and I don't like the idea that some people have-that if you post pictures of your work, your photos are somehow magically immune to comments. Forums don't work that way. In my opinion, posting photos of your work on a public forum means your work is open to comments and criticism.

If you can't take criticism, if you can't take other people's opinion... don't post photos of your work. And if you do post, realize that forum members have the right to make comments.

I have to agree.

When I look at others work, if I like it I was let you know. If I don't, I usually don't say anything, unless there is a particular thing that was done rather well.

I, personally welcome ALL comment on my builds. I am my own worst critic at times and I like to hera what everyone thinks. Waht i might think is bad on one of my builds, someone else might think it is good and have that encouraging statement to keep me going on it and try even harder.

This forum and others like it have been so helpful to me. I have seen alot of good and bad that has helped me grow as a modeler. My skills have grown a lot since I joined model forums.

I view this forum like a coach. A coach has to carefully tell and point out to his "player" when they have not preformed well in order to help improve them.

[Viperfanboy]

I'm not a master molder, I've only been at it for 2 months now. I joined other forums and everyone was always saying how good my cars looked for someone so new, and I know their doing it to keep my head up high and keep me motivated to continue building models, which I will. I'm not great at it but I'm also not bad. As-long as your happy how your model came out, that's really all that matters in my book.

[Jantrix]

If you can't take criticism, if you can't take other people's opinion... don't post photos of your work. And if you do post, realize that forum members have the right to make comments.

All true. However, as Terry pointed out, the backlash can be killer. We have a lot of younger modelers lately and its fantastic to see. But as a dad, I know that criticism even the most well intentioned and well put, can really hit a kid hard. And as we have seen some adults handle it even worse.

I've tried PM's, but for the most part I never see a responce. As for the post(s) that prompted this, there save been several lately. This why I bumped my "Walk then Run" thread. And I think I'll continue to do so occasionally.

[Harry P.]

As-long as your happy how your model came out, that's really all that matters in my book.

That's true... but one of the benefits of posting photos of your work and being open to comments (especially if you're pretty new to building model cars) is that you might learn something that you didn't know from someone's comments. And you can then put that new knowledge to work on your next model, and make the next one better than the last one.

It's fine to be happy with how your model turned out, but it's even better to learn a thing or two that you can use to become a better modeler.

[Scale-Master]

Some builders are not aware of the level of quality they are building at compared to others. (Some are and don’t care.) If they only are comparing their new work to their old work, they may very well be improving, but still not building as well as many others. (Some do want to improve.)

That being said, to falsely praise what is clearly poor workmanship is a disservice. To both the builder and those trying to learn from watching.

If someone does, (let’s say a custom) and the styling, or wheel choice for example, does not look good to me, but the workmanship is fine, it is a subjective matter.

If it is a replica (or model meant to be believable) and the model doesn’t match the real car, or added “details” are clearly out of scale or incorrect, that is another issue. Just as if the workmanship is sloppy. Praising orange peeled or generally bad paint as "super glossy" or "deep"? Why? Why not offer some tips on how to avoid or better yet, repair it?

But workmanship across the board should not be praised when it is sub-standard or the builder may not know he can improve. It is counterproductive to blast the people who see the work and comment for what it is. I see there is an element of comparing to one's own work to decide what someone deems good or not, but just because it is better than one person can do, it does not automatically mean it is good.

If you are comfortable with your results, fine, but I agree with Harry’s original post in this thread. Open forum, no immunity. Sadly there are some people here who will lambaste someone offering an honest critique of certain peoples work…

[Viperfanboy]

That's true... but one of the benefits of posting photos of your work and being open to comments (especially if you're pretty new to building model cars) is that you might learn something that you didn't know from someone's comments. And you can then put that new knowledge to work on your next model, and make the next one better than the last one.

It's fine to be happy with how your model turned out, but it's even better to learn a thing or two that you can use to become a better modeler.

Yeah that's what I hope to become, a better modeler. I'm picking up things here and there.

[Casey]

just because it is better than one person can do, it does not automatically mean it is good.

Bingo.

The "perfect" model does not exist. I've never seen one, and doubt I ever will. I've seen a which some close, but you can always find a flaw or fault and that's a good thing. It motivates us to improve, and IMHO, that's the goal with each successive build. Listening to other people's opinions and critiques is just another tool we can use to improve, but the opinions and critiques must be honest and genuine for them to tbe truly helpful.