Riprap Machines for detail?

[Chas SCR]

We talked about the 3D printing and such and now lets get into this, How about the detail that is not that far off for people at home to have is a Riprap printing machine and cutter. Yes it's a little pricey and getting the program to run it in all but the works of this machine is so far advanced in todays detail its passed any thing we have going in the modeling world. The vynal is less then .002 thick and can be rapped on a body or even area's of the body as if it was painted on and you would not have any idea of this if some one does not tell you about it. If you go to my thread and look under "Runt" this was use under the hood with the R's in a circle around them. they are .030 size from outer edge of the circle to the outer edge. You can see the R's as if it was writen down here on the paper. The more detail it has and able to do is so far past any printer (And yes I have a lazer printer) that can not even come close to this machine. Also the cutter cuts them out if you need to with a blad that is .0005 thickness. You see it being used all the time on bill boards and Nascar (yes the rap) but just think of how far we can take this and using it for are help. No more paint, no more harmfull vapers, you do it all on the computer and using vynal.

[Chief Joseph]

At first I thought you were talking about the RepRap hobbyist 3D printer, but I think you are talking about a vinyl printer/plotter like a Roland GX-24. That technology is common in the sign-making industry. No reason why it can't be used to print tiny little wraps for a model car.

[Casey]

That would be very interesting to done on a model. With vinyl that thin, you'd still need perfect bodywork underneath, and unless the vinyl is totally opaque, you'd still need to paint the body, and paint it well. At .002" thick, even orange peel would show through.

[Chas SCR]

Casey, you can get the vinyl in any color you like and the printer choice for color also has over 3,000 diffrent colors to pick from.

Joseph, Yes that is what i'm talking about it the one for doing sign making and such. Wish they would make a printer for a desk and the cutter to fit on a table. Other then that it's real nice and just think with all the things you can do with this (Nascar,drag cars) and on and on it's like starting all over again.

[Scale-Master]

Wish they would make a printer for a desk and the cutter to fit on a table.

They do have a cutter, it's called a CriCut and they have them at Wal-Mart and advertise on TV. But the ability for it to cut the level of detail I want is not there. The Roland Sticka line is better, but it is more expensive and still not high enough quality for what I want to make. The Roland GX 24 is again better, and also more of an investment. It's about what you want out of the cutter and how much you are willing to invest. But none of them are printers. They are plotters or cutters.

To step up to a Printer/Cutter capable of the basic quality most modelers would accept you're looking at an entry level investment of a few thousand dollars.

[Joe Handley]

I'd love to have either of thosr cutters for RC bodies, but they are just too pricey.

[Art Anderson]

All very nice indeed--but not yet something that even a significant minority of model car builders are going to adopt, I'm afraid!

Art

[Skydime]

Id say its a pain in the rear to "weed" stickers for 1:25 models. I remember weeding "sparkle" stickers in my local sign shop while waiting on car club stickers to cut so I can just imagine. But it would be worth it in a lot of instances. It opens up a lot of possibilities too.

The only real issue is that the pricing makes it not so consumer friendly. As stated above, it would limit the number in the hobby that can afford it. However, I would imagine that some more popular racing schemes could be cut and sold by a hobby retailer as a supplement to their current line of products.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Skydime

[CadillacPat]

Like ScaleMaster who is also in the DieCast Customizing world, I knew you were asking about Vinyl Plotters.

These same Plotters are used by some to create masks for 1/64 scale HotWheels's and such.

We discuss them a lot on AirBrush sites.

The Vinyl used for them would be a nightmare to attempt to apply to the surface of even the larger 1/18 scale models, and most certainly would not conform satisfactorily to body lines, door and trunk jams, small detail.

You would wind up with your model looking like it was wearing a scuba wetsuit.

Seriously, the thickness would make this impossible.

Plus, any necessary heat gun application would melt your plastic model.

Think Decals.

If you wish to put imagery on Models or HotWheels then use Decals as I do.

The Promotional Customs that I do all rely on Custom Graphics and imagery that cover as much of the 1/64 scale car as possible.

Decals conform to compound and complex curves, and my HP InkJet will produce color and detail to match any printer.

As for Arts quote::::::::

All very nice indeed--but not yet something that even a significant minority of model car builders are going to adopt, I'm afraid!

Art

Not so Art, that's already happened years ago within DieCast Customizng and those people are all Model Builders.

These Plotters are useful to many in Customizing and have been for some time.

CadillacPat

[Scale-Master]

Count me as one who has been using the technique for years. Just look at the 300ZX I am currently working on and the 1/12 Camaro I finished last December.

It all depends on the project, (worked great on the real Challenger I just did), and while it has its usable applications in the model world, it does not replace decals, especially for the smaller scales.

[Chas SCR]

I was just woundering is all Mark, I know that I do not under stand a lot of what is behind it all but the guy here who I invested money with for his shop to be the only one to have one in are local area and I just seen how much detail we was able to get it to do with out losing detail at the same time.

Pat, You can get the vinyl to fourm to any thing even with out the heat gun. If you go in my build thread of "Runt" ths was not done with a heat gun in use and even before I use the clear coat to seal it so it would make it that the detail was all airbrush work like the real car was there was not over'ly bright area. It all falls on who and where you are ordering your vinyl from. I have a book here that has 1,000 diffrent colors and the priniter program to change the shading of the colors up to another 3000 color choices.

Now I do not know all program names or what we have put into the computer to make it work but it's just so nice to see some thing like taking the letter R and I have been able to take it down to .005 by .005 and with an eye glass you can read it as it was writen here with no problem. I will have the main sheet with me at GSL in the build folder if any one would like to take a look at this stuff even more.

[CadillacPat]

I was just woundering is all Mark, I know that I do not under stand a lot of what is behind it all but the guy here who I invested money with for his shop to be the only one to have one in are local area and I just seen how much detail we was able to get it to do with out losing detail at the same time.

Pat, You can get the vinyl to fourm to any thing even with out the heat gun. If you go in my build thread of "Runt" ths was not done with a heat gun in use and even before I use the clear coat to seal it so it would make it that the detail was all airbrush work like the real car was there was not over'ly bright area. It all falls on who and where you are ordering your vinyl from. I have a book here that has 1,000 diffrent colors and the priniter program to change the shading of the colors up to another 3000 color choices.

Now I do not know all program names or what we have put into the computer to make it work but it's just so nice to see some thing like taking the letter R and I have been able to take it down to .005 by .005 and with an eye glass you can read it as it was writen here with no problem. I will have the main sheet with me at GSL in the build folder if any one would like to take a look at this stuff even more.

Your graphics look good.

InkJets will produce the same tiny lettering and detail even down to the very minute.

I can't tell from your pics how well the edges of your vinyl disappear.

That's the benefit of Decals, you can make graphics look painted on without any edge buildup.

If the vinyl can be ordered thinner than Clear InkJet Decal Film then the only question left would be adhesion and it's ability to conform or wrinkle.

CadillacPat

[Scale-Master]

I have some pretty fine and thin vinyl, but I have never seen any that is thinner than the decal papers I use. Remember, the thickness of the decal paper is mostly the discarded part. While there is a backing on the vinyl that is discarded, in the end it is my experience that decals are thinner.

It all boils down to what you are satisfied with.

[Chas SCR]

Mark, Can the decal paper be order in the same as vinyl? if so what company should I look at ordering and such. I know the printer is a 4 ft but i can load it with smaller paper. Now for the plotter/ cutter I guess i do not know the real term to use for it but can that also be used for cutting out the decal?

[CadillacPat]

For anyone who does want to order what I consider to be the best Decal Paper,

Papilio.com

Chas, The Clear InkJet DecalPaper I get is said to be .0012mm thick, remember that is the clear film, what we call the carrier.

The paper is said to vary between.0010" thick and .0015"

http://papilio.com/inkjet%20waterslide%20decal%20transfer%20paper%20media.html

White Decal Paper from Papilio.com is .0080mm thickness, about 6 times thicker than Clear.

http://papilio.com/white%20inkjet%20waterslide%20decal%20transfer%20paper%20media.html

So far the thinnest White Glossy Vinyl I could find for car wraps and advertising, in bulk quantity, is .08mm thick

That's pretty thin but still 10 times thicker than White Decal Paper and 15 times thicker than Clear InkJet.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/317942625/self_adhesive_vinyl_80micron_thickness.html

I don't believe the thickness of Vinyl would work for me, except for a wrap where the edges are hidden.

My Graphics are normall centered in doors, hoods, roofs and trunks and the edge of Clear Decals is almost negligible, and some Clears used for sealant will make Decal edges disappear.

I'd like to see pictures of this Vinyl stretched over fenders or other like areas of compound curves.

I can't visualize it not wrinkling at our scale, unless it stretches. But, if it stretches I would suspect the imagery would be corrupted.

I'm curious about when you say you can use the printer part to print on top of color.

So what kind of printer, is it a sublimation process?

I know this works on cars and buses but when you get down to scale size and want to "wrap" an area that has eges, detail, curves in 4 directions. and then, don't you have to go back and trim off excess?? With Decals that is all done before they are applied.

Interesting, I would like to see pics.

CadillacPat

[kratvmnd]

I have a Roland Camm-1 plotter/cutter that I use on a regular basis for business signs,race car graphics,etc.. I have used it with great results for making paint masks/templates,but as thin and well-conforming as the vinyl is,it is still too thick to be used for actual graphics.Any lettering under 1/4 inch is tricky and when you get into any sharp angles at that size the "points" leave a little to be desired. Also,you will run into adhesion problems and color fade over time.Not to mention the dreaded "shrinkage" problem.Vinyl is affected by temperature changes also,so it shrinks and retracts,I'm sure you have all seen this happen on bumper stickers.The finish would not be very durable either as the vinyl scratches very easily.It really wouldn't be any different than the stickers in a snap kit.Here's a couple pics that may show what I mean.

The scallops are about 4"x3/4" to give you an idea of size here. As you can see,the accuracy is very good,but in the 3rd pic,I think you should be able to actually SEE the thickness.Works great for making custom masks for painting like these, but I wouldn't use them directly on something in this small of a scale.

Edited October 19, 2012 by kratvmnd

[Chas SCR]

Thanks Pat, I will be going to his shop to day and will get more info for you on what we used and the names of the printer and cutter. Also I will find out what thickness we used on doing "Runt", I want to say he said it was .0002mm but I can not say for sure with out asking. I do know what size blades we use on the cutter as it was a special order for that.