School bus question

[Guest]

  On 1/11/2013 at 8:07 PM, Kaleb said:

All in all its just a cheaper way to get them out the door.

How do you figure that? It's still paint.

[Danno]

It's a brand new idea!

From the New York Times, June 17, 1992:

Cooling (and Safety) Trend For Buses: White Tops

Published: June 17, 1992

Air conditioning school buses used to mean opening windows, which on a hot day simply let in hot air. Now more and more states and school districts are finding that painting the tops of school buses white makes the ride cooler.

The paint job may also make riding on school buses safer.

That conclusion was suggested by the response to a recent pilot program in North Carolina in which repainted buses were used. Motorists reported that white-topped, orange-bodied buses were easier to see.

As a result of the program, North Carolina will give school systems the option of specifying white tops when ordering new buses, said William Turner, an assistant superintendent for transportation at Brunswick County Schools. Buses with white tops cost a few hundred dollars more than regular buses, manufacturers say.

Part of the program involved studying the effect of the white tops on the temperature inside the buses. Digital thermometers were mounted on county school buses and readings were taken four times a day from August to December. The buses were tested while running and while parked.

Painting the bus tops white dropped the interior temperature an average of 10 degrees during the summer, with as much as a 17-degree difference at peak hours. Wintertime temperatures were lower by only 3 to 4 degrees.

The study also found that children behaved better on buses in cooler temperatures, Mr. Turner said.

And drivers preferred the two-toned buses. "It seems like the kids are a lot calmer," said Margaret Hughes, who has driven school buses for more than eight years.

Mr. Turner said his office had also received dozens of calls from motorists saying the white tops make the buses easier to see.

The Brunswick County program was modeled on similar programs in Florida and California, Mr. Turner said. Atlanta schools have been using the white tops for about four years, said Rick Rose, the president of the Georgia Association for Pupil Transportation. He said about half the buses in the state now have white tops.

The idea started in California, which has been using white-topped buses for about 20 years, Mr. Rose said.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Danno

[Craig Irwin]

Did you ever notice most two tone cars in the 50's and 60's had white roofs ? Also, could the white roofs on busses be kinda new because school didn't use to start untill after Labor day, and was out before Memorial day?

[Harry P.]

  On 1/11/2013 at 11:13 PM, Danno said:

Motorists reported that white-topped, orange-bodied buses were easier to see.

Seeing as how 99% of the privately-owned vehicles on the road are nowhere near as tall as school buses, I fail to see how a white roof would make the average school bus easier to see by the soccer mom in the Odyssey.

And "easier to see?" A bright orange-yellow, 30 foot long bus isn't already pretty easy to spot??? It's the white roof that makes it visible?

I can buy the "white roof keeps interior cooler" idea, not so much the "oh yeah, NOW I see it. Thanks, white roof" idea...

[sjordan2]

  On 1/12/2013 at 12:18 AM, Harry P. said:

Seeing as how 99% of the privately-owned vehicles on the road are nowhere near as tall as school buses, I fail to see how a white roof would make the average school bus easier to see by the soccer mom in the Odyssey.

And "easier to see?" A bright orange-yellow, 30 foot long bus isn't already pretty easy to spot??? It's the white roof that makes it visible?

I can buy the "white roof keeps interior cooler" idea, not so much the "oh yeah, NOW I see it. Thanks, white roof" idea...

Aren't we talking about police helicopters here?

[Harry P.]

  On 1/12/2013 at 12:21 AM, sjordan2 said:

Aren't we talking about police helicopters here?

The article said that "motorists reported" that the white roof made the bus easier to see.

Without the white roof, a 30 foot long bright yellow bus just gets lost in the scenery...

[Eshaver]

  On 1/11/2013 at 5:58 PM, Harry P. said:

School buses have heat, I guess they don't have AC.

Uh.............. they do here .

[Danno]

  Quote

Aren't we talking about police helicopters here?

[Nick Winter]

School bus drivers here in Ontario wish they'd either paint the roof white or install A/C (my mom has been driving them part time for about 10 years now)

Nick

[jas1957]

I've been a school bus mechanic in northern Ohio for 30 + years, yes the idea was for them to be cooler in the warmer months. We tried the white roof thing years ago, didn't seem to make any difference. I suspect in the south where it is warmer for much longer periods of time it might pay off. On an 80+ degree sunny day those things are like a sauna. In this area at least few if any busses have AC, in Ohio school budgets are VERY tight. AC is viewed as a luxury, teachers wages & buying books are seen as more important. Hard to disagree with that. For the 15 or 20 minutes most kids spend on a bus they can survive. For the drivers it's a bit rougher, 2-3 hours each morning & afternoon. As far as the visibility thing you would not believe the number of people over the years that have run into a bus & said with a straight face " I didn't see it ". Just nuts.

Edited January 12, 2013 by jas1957

[martinfan5]

I could of swore some of the school districts here have A/C on there bus's, I say that because I have seen school bus's during the early summer time here in the valley( May) with the windows up in the afternoon.

[Rob Hall]

I don't know if they have them now, but the buses I remember riding as a kid in E. Ohio and S. Florida back in the day didn't have A/C....sticky vinyl seats, hot and humid days, windows open...

[martinfan5]

  On 1/12/2013 at 2:42 AM, Rob Hall said:

I don't know if they have them now, but the buses I remember riding as a kid in E. Ohio and S. Florida back in the day didn't have A/C....sticky vinyl seats, hot and humid days, windows open...

Being a kid here in the valley , no heat or A/C on the bus's, it was either windows up, or down

[Harry P.]

And as far as I know, no seatbelts in school buses. At least that's how it is here.

What's up with that? We don't even let little Johnnie and little Janie ride a freakin' bike without a helmet. So why no seatbelts in school buses?

[Nick Winter]

  On 1/12/2013 at 2:48 AM, Harry P. said:

And as far as I know, no seatbelts in school buses. At least that's how it is here.

What's up with that? We don't even let little Johnnie and little Janie ride a freakin' bike without a helmet. So why no seatbelts in school buses?

In the event of an accident who will be cutting 48-72 seatbelts.

Nick

[Harry P.]

  On 1/12/2013 at 2:50 AM, Nick Winter said:

In the event of an accident who will be cutting 48-72 seatbelts.

Nick

I guess that makes sense. Sort of. Maybe.

[Rob Hall]

  On 1/12/2013 at 2:48 AM, Harry P. said:

And as far as I know, no seatbelts in school buses. At least that's how it is here.

What's up with that? We don't even let little Johnnie and little Janie ride a freakin' bike without a helmet. So why no seatbelts in school buses?

I've read it's because of the padding on the seats. And the logistical headache of getting all the kids to buckle up.

[martinfan5]

  On 1/12/2013 at 2:50 AM, Nick Winter said:

In the event of an accident who will be cutting 48-72 seatbelts.

Nick

First responders will be cutting those seat belts

[Nick Winter]

  On 1/12/2013 at 2:56 AM, martinfan5 said:

First responders will be cutting those seat belts

Not always, especially in the event of an urgent emergency situation where the first responders have not arrived yet.

adding to what Rob said, next time your on a school bus, grab one of the seats, you'll feel how soft they actually are, quite pliable.

Nick

[Craig Irwin]

  On 1/12/2013 at 2:48 AM, Harry P. said:

And as far as I know, no seatbelts in school buses. At least that's how it is here.

What's up with that? We don't even let little Johnnie and little Janie ride a freakin' bike without a helmet. So why no seatbelts in school buses?

I am so with you on this one!!!

Good 'ol government, "Do as I say, not as I do".

[martinfan5]

  On 1/12/2013 at 3:11 AM, Nick Winter said:

Not always, especially in the event of an urgent emergency situation where the first responders have not arrived yet.

adding to what Rob said, next time your on a school bus, grab one of the seats, you'll feel how soft they actually are, quite pliable.

Nick

And that is a good point as well, I dont think I am going to be stepping foot on a school bus anytime soon

[Lunajammer]

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, I think testing showed there's more upper body and neck injuries in busses when kids use waist belts. They would also need other kinds of protection before exceeding the safety of just letting kids have full body hits into the padded seats in front of them.

[Harry P.]

I think it's ironic that we expect kids to wear a helmet when they're on a bike, but we think it's fine that they ride in a school bus twice a day without wearing a seat belt. In one way we're so overly protective, yet in another way we seem to be ok with "taking chances." Not saying belts in buses is right or wrong... just kind of funny how we are so inconsistent.

[Danno]

Why no seatbelts in school buses?

Answer:

$ $ $

[Danno]

Think I'm overly cynical?

It's reported that there are only 5 or 6 children killed in school bus traffic accidents annually.

Costs versus benefits

A report from the NHTSA estimated that installing a singular bench-style seat belt set would cost between $375 and $600, totaling between $5,485 and $7,346 for every large bus.

"The NHTSA concluded that lap and shoulder belts can be misused, resulting in more injury."

According to the NHTSA, "The benefits would be achieved at a cost of between $23 [million] and $36 million per equivalent life saved." Instead of a federal mandate, the NHTSA encourages individual states and local governments to be able to decide on the seat belt requirements within their own communities.

The NHTSA concluded that seat belts are not always worn properly, resulting in more injury. "Lap/shoulder belts can be misused and NHTSA's testing showed that serious neck injury and perhaps abdominal injury could result when lap/shoulder belts are misused," representatives from NHTSA said. Furthermore, the NHTSA concluded that it was unrealistic to ask bus drivers to make sure each child complied with seat belts.

Taking all of this into consideration, many transportation safety experts agree with the NHTSA that the cost simply outweighs the benefit.