Blown03SVT Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) I read your comments and this is all I see going through my head - sadly the RM tuner kits were good kits. I bought a bunch of them (missed out on the Subaru WRX though). But there were other flops like a tuner Chevy Citation (Come on...REALLY?!). The problem with kits of import cars is the styles evolve and change quickly. It would be impossible for a kit manufacture to keep with current trends and not lose their behinds in the process. The AMT kits I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. They looked like trash in the box art. Sign of the times I guess. That genre of kits appeals to a generation that just is not as excited about models as the older groups that have no interest in the subject matter. Back to the original topic though, I just read yesterday SRT at Fiat/Chrysler has something up it's sleeve for the Z/28 hopefully upcoming. Edited April 2, 2013 by Blown03SVT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Kourouklis Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Supra was ok, better in the later version. The rest of AMT's offerings were jokes. Revell's Eclipse beat theirs to a pulp, and I'm loathe to besmirch JADA by comparison to AMT's Z and Evo sedan - those were straight-out caricatures. So no, they're not the best examples. But much as I don't like what Brett's saying about current releases, it's inevitable that until contemporary subjects can land a little closer in release to their 1:1 counterparts, they're just not going to sell as well as they could. Somehow, Revell was early enough on the curve with Mustangs, 'Vettes, and Vipers up until a few years ago, when some paradigm shifted someplace - those promo contracts, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lownslow Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I read your comments and this is all I see going through my head - That only illustrates how out of touch you are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Frank, I agree with you on the kits, I cant get enough of R35 and the 86 kits, but Japanese kits are not targeting US buyers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Barrow Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) Haven't you heard??? According to Tom Carter over on Spotlight WalMart was the worst thing that ever happened to modeling. It almost killed the hobby & the hobby stores/online vendors such as himself. Now that Wally is out of the equation the newest threat to the hobby, or his selling aspect of the hobby anyway, is the Revell Preferred Hobby Shops that get the releases a week early. He believes that the program is terribly unfair & should be stopped immediately. I really needed my sarcastic font for that comment. Wally World was the worst thing that ever happened to the American side of the hobby and it was making kit choices based on the whims of WalMart and KMart in the 90's and early 2000's that put us into the situation that put Revell and AMT on the brink of going out of business when those big box stores pulled the rug out from under them. THAT's the point I've been trying to make all along about late-model subjects. When they had 12 feet in every big-box mass-market department store in the country to fill with models they made totally different choices of subject mattter. But that ship has sailed, those days are over, and it left the American model companies in a shambles that they've been lucky to recover from. They're not going to go down that path again. If they do, they're setting themselves up for disaster - again... As for his dislike of the RPP program, there's nothing stopping him from participating. But he just wants to deal in cars on his little website and eBay store, and not buy the planes and military subjects that go along with the RPP program. He could open up a brick and mortar store and sell all types of models like the shops that do participate in the program. Or he could continue to complain from his little board. His choice. Adapt or die... Edited April 3, 2013 by Brett Barrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Barrow Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 That only illustrates how out of touch you are I sell those kits, too, I work in hobby distribution. That's been my point - ask Aoshima for the kits that Aoshima's more likely to provide. I probably sell 20 Revell kits for every one Aoshima kit I sell. This is my job, Monday-Friday, 9-5, I do wholesale - all day, every day, and you can add a Saturdays and Sundays part-time in a retail hobby shop on top of that. This is my life, this is my career. This is what I do. I take it seriously. My point has been that everyone seems to think that the descisions of the 90's and early 2000's were great decisions and need to be repeated. I'm just saying that they were poor decisions and need not be repeated. I've got skin in the game, this is what I do. Bad decisions by model companies don't put money in my pocket... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lownslow Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I sell those kits, too, I work in hobby distribution. That's been my point - ask Aoshima for the kits that Aoshima's more likely to provide. I probably sell 20 Revell kits for every one Aoshima kit I sell. This is my job, Monday-Friday, 9-5, I do wholesale - all day, every day, and you can add a Saturdays and Sundays part-time in a retail hobby shop on top of that. This is my life, this is my career. This is what I do. I take it seriously. My point has been that everyone seems to think that the descisions of the 90's and early 2000's were great decisions and need to be repeated. I'm just saying that they were poor decisions and need not be repeated. I've got skin in the game, this is what I do. Bad decisions by model companies don't put money in my pocket... It wouldnt surprise me at that figure most modelers know its cheaper to get them direct fom japan than through any hobby shop Benz 722 SLR is almost 70$ here compared to the 35$ it costs to get it direct. They might or might not be but there has been a upswing in demand for revell civics by younger modelers, prices havent gotten out of hand yet like the Revell Lowrider Cadillac but that kit appreciated in value faster than any other revell kit in a really short time they were selling for 50-80$ at one point before they were reissued and a lot of people called it a pointless kit. Im in a club with people who have information on revell and they said before the best selling kit before the 50 olds, is the snap tite Camaro. The only reason the olds outsold the camaro is the years of hype following it but in 20 or 30 years when the younger builders get into the game what options are they gonna have? i know some teenage model builders and aside from revells current model offerings theres not much there, the cars that appeal to them are the same ones i posted with the exception of the missing Infinity's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blown03SVT Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Frank, IMO the snap tite Camaro has better looks and proportions than the full detail kit. I even bought one after I saw what Mathhew Usher did with one in the other magazine. Maybe... just maybe, if the reviews that were published provided more than just a builders impression. Maybe expanded reviews? Pictures of the whats in the box goes a long way. FWIW, MCM actually does a pretty good job with the reviews in the way they are formatted. I just wish there were maybe a few more pictures of the kit and the assembly process. I guess thats were forums like this help the hobby. With out being able to sample the kit or see whats in the box before purchase you have to be really intrigued by the subject or base your decision on how it looks in the box art which at times can be unflattering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Kourouklis Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 An expanded review of the AMT Camaro, huh? Maybe even in a comparison with the Revell kit? With full building impressions, progress shots, clues what to watch out for? Good idea! I'll get right on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Barrow Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 It wouldnt surprise me at that figure most modelers know its cheaper to get them direct fom japan than through any hobby shop Benz 722 SLR is almost 70$ here compared to the 35$ it costs to get it direct. They might or might not be but there has been a upswing in demand for revell civics by younger modelers, prices havent gotten out of hand yet like the Revell Lowrider Cadillac but that kit appreciated in value faster than any other revell kit in a really short time they were selling for 50-80$ at one point before they were reissued and a lot of people called it a pointless kit. Im in a club with people who have information on revell and they said before the best selling kit before the 50 olds, is the snap tite Camaro. The only reason the olds outsold the camaro is the years of hype following it but in 20 or 30 years when the younger builders get into the game what options are they gonna have? i know some teenage model builders and aside from revells current model offerings theres not much there, the cars that appeal to them are the same ones i posted with the exception of the missing Infinity's True, but the snap Camaro is in decline - it's run its course. It's barely in the top 25 of kit sales since the start of 2012. And it's barely the top snap kit right now, the good ol' 34 Ford is hot on its heels... The top selling Japanese kit over that timeframe for us? Aoshima's Aventador, which I had to run a top 200 1/24th scale items list just to find it - in 176th place (the list included both accesories and kits). It was just ahead of Revell Germany's London Bus, but about 20 spots behind Monogram's Tom Daniel S'Cool Bus, which we've had in stock all of 3 days... They want to buy kits direct from Japan, let them. Saves us from having to buy them and pay freight and customs to get them here. If it takes a dollar to make a dollar, then saving a dollar is a good as making 50 cents. Goes right along with the point I've been trying to make all along - that a smart divestment is just a good as a smart investment. I think Kenny Rogers wrote a song aobut knowing when to hold 'em and knowing when to fold 'em... The message boards, the model clubs, eBay listings, etc... they don't represent the model-buying public as a whole. Boards and clubs are maybe the top 1%, or maybe even just the top .1%. I'd go hungry catering to the whims of clubs and boards. It's a big world out there, a lot bigger than what's represented by boards like this, or the model clubs. It's bigger than most of you reading this will ever even realize. I live in that big world. I work in that big world. I sell to that big world. I remember posting on one board (it might have been here, but I think it was an airplane board) that the industry estimates that there are about 3 million modelers in the US, and geting basically laughed off the board, even though I had industry data and studies to back me up. But I'm a 1%er, too, Modeler Brett understands you, Modeler Brett hears the voices on the boards and clubs loud and clear. But Businessman Brett knows the reality of the situation... Keeping Modeler Brett and Businessman Brett separate is something that's taken me a long time to learn how to do. If Modeler Brett had his way, I'd be begging them for a '54 Facel-Vega... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Barrow Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Would you, could you post that list, pretty please? And is this wholesale or retail? I'm working on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Kourouklis Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I sell those kits, too, I work in hobby distribution. That's been my point - ask Aoshima for the kits that Aoshima's more likely to provide. I probably sell 20 Revell kits for every one Aoshima kit I sell. This is my job, Monday-Friday, 9-5, I do wholesale - all day, every day, and you can add a Saturdays and Sundays part-time in a retail hobby shop on top of that. This is my life, this is my career. This is what I do. I take it seriously. My point has been that everyone seems to think that the descisions of the 90's and early 2000's were great decisions and need to be repeated. I'm just saying that they were poor decisions and need not be repeated. I've got skin in the game, this is what I do. Bad decisions by model companies don't put money in my pocket... I really dislike the conclusion you come to, but I'm forced to agree. Course, there's the matter of where we core guys nearly drove them off a cliff, too. We'd holler and clamor for certain subjects, they'd listen to us, and we'd wind up buying not nearly what we promised to. How many of those hobbyist-oriented subjects blew out the first run, maybe, then sat on the shelves collecting dust thereafter. Little surprised to hear the '50 Olds has legs, but glad about it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Barrow Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 An expanded review of the AMT Camaro, huh? Maybe even in a comparison with the Revell kit? With full building impressions, progress shots, clues what to watch out for? Good idea! I'll get right on it. Could you maybe do one on the AMT and Revell Challengers while you're at it?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blown03SVT Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) An expanded review of the AMT Camaro, huh? Maybe even in a comparison with the Revell kit? With full building impressions, progress shots, clues what to watch out for? Good idea! I'll get right on it. I read and enjoyed your review actually, as well as the one with the big scale GT500. And hopefully your review inspired a few folks and helped move a little more inventory after people saw what the box contained. I know that all the kits reviewed cannot be 3-4 page articles. Edited April 3, 2013 by Blown03SVT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Barrow Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I really dislike the conclusion you come to, but I'm forced to agree. As a modeler, I don't like it either. Course, there's the matter of where we core guys nearly drove them off a cliff, too. We'd holler and clamor for certain subjects, they'd listen to us, and we'd wind up buying not nearly what we promised to. How many of those hobbyist-oriented subjects blew out the first run, maybe, then sat on the shelves collecting dust thereafter. 72 Olds convertibles, anyone??? Blew out for a couple months, now neither version is in production. ZR-1 Vette and ACR Viper never really did blow out even at the beginning, they're pretty much dust collectors now. Little surprised to hear the '50 Olds has legs, but glad about it too. 50 Olds just won't stop. I've never seen anything like it since I've been in the buisness. Wonder if they'd trade any of those lowriders and tuners from the 90's and early 2000's for the 50 Olds now (or to go back and beat Moebius to the punch with Hudsons and the 55 300) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Kourouklis Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) Thank you very much for that Eric, and yes, I have a few documented, anecdotal cases of people who saw that the AMT kit was more correct overall, and bought the Revell kit anyway because AMT's kit was not as much more correct than Revell's as Revell's was more detailed than AMT's. If that makes any sense. **edit** - I just realized, you were talking about the Revell '69 Camaro snapper, weren't you? L. O. L. My bad... Edited April 3, 2013 by Chuck Kourouklis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Brett, I was not saying I want to see Revell/AMT make the same kits that Tamiya/Fujimi/Aoshima are making, and of course they are not going to be competing with each other, but I am still an Amercian builder, and would rather support American model companys with my hobby money, so yes I would like to see at least a few more new tools that are not from the 40/50 years ago. I am not saying I want to see them go current tooling all the way, just a couple every year would be nice, and I am talking about subjects that have been seen in plastic before. I dont think that is to much to ask for really, I dont think I am being unreasonable in wanting it. Jonathan, I understand what it is that you don't want, but I wonder if you'd mind taking a challenge. Let's pretend you're in charge of greenlighting projects for a model company. With the high costs of tooling and the necessity of selling X number of kits to make a profit, issuing one "dog" could be hazardous to the company, while a 2nd error in judgment might be detrimental enough to cost you your job. Here's your challenge: Give me a list of 10 non-AARP-type cars you'd issue that you're sure generations X & Y would buy like old guys buy '32 Fords. Rob, et al, feel free to create your own lists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 72 Olds convertibles, anyone??? Blew out for a couple months, now neither version is in production. That always seemed like an odd choice given the other body styles they could've started with, and the second version was little more than a 19"/20" wheel and tire upgrade. Still a LOT of potential in the GM A-body series, though, which hopefully includes replacing the 1/24 Monogram '70 Chevelle SS with a modern full detail (i.e., not the SnapTite kit) version in 1/25 scale. Looooong overdue IMHO. 50 Olds just won't stop. Hmmm, I wonder if this will make it more difficult for choosing future '50s subjects, and how's the '57 Ford kit doing in comparison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Barrow Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 That always seemed like an odd choice given the other body styles they could've started with, and the second version was little more than a 19"/20" wheel and tire upgrade. Still a LOT of potential in the GM A-body series, though, which hopefully includes replacing the 1/24 Monogram '70 Chevelle SS with a modern full detail (i.e., not the SnapTite kit) version in 1/25 scale. Looooong overdue IMHO. Hmmm, I wonder if this will make it more difficult for choosing future '50s subjects, and how's the '57 Ford kit doing in comparison? Yeah, I don't think they're done with that A-body platform. Sometimes it's smart to start with the oddball. Plus somebody at Revell is/was a total Indy Pace Car nut. Forget who and they might not be with the company anymore. Might have been Bill Lastovich. I expect to see more 50 Olds versions down the road - convertible, Holiday hardtop, Club Sedan (fastback), maybe even some Chevys... The 57 Ford is currently our #2 best selling car model, right behind the Olds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 (edited) Jonathan, I understand what it is that you don't want, but I wonder if you'd mind taking a challenge. Let's pretend you're in charge of greenlighting projects for a model company. With the high costs of tooling and the necessity of selling X number of kits to make a profit, issuing one "dog" could be hazardous to the company, while a 2nd error in judgment might be detrimental enough to cost you your job. Here's your challenge: Give me a list of 10 non-AARP-type cars you'd issue that you're sure generations X & Y would buy like old guys buy '32 Fords. Rob, et al, feel free to create your own lists. Monty, I think at times, I fail at trying to put into words whats rattling around in my head, I do understand 100% why Revell/Round2 do the subjects they do, its all about the bottom line, and believe you me, thats whats important, making a profit to be able to stay in business. It can be hard sometimes to be a model builder thats in my age range ,if you dont have interest in stuff from 30's-60's , you are going to get left out in away. Dont get me wrong, I have nothing against older stuff, just not my cup of tea for the most part. There are a good amount of stuff thats from that era that I would like to build, just its not high up on my list. I look at like this, just whats being tooled up for the most part, the target buyers for them grew with the subjects, and even though many will say my era of the automotive time period sucks, thats what I know, what I grew up with, agreed, there are many of vehicles from that era 80s-now, that I dont want to see in kit form and wouldn't build either. I would have to think awhile to give you a list, but here just a few that are off the top of my head Mid 2000's P/U truck, I would say a dully, there are a lot of light commercials applications that can be built off of one 1999-2011 Ford CVPI (Crown Vic ) I know its not modern but 1974 Dodge Monaco I agree with Rob, something from BMW would be nice, or Cadillac Brett, I hope you did not think I was trying to argue with you , I was not , and if it came off that way, I do apologize, I know you are providing facts about things, and I understand what you have been saying, and I am just giving an opinion from a builders side that is in my age group. Regardless if Revell/Round2 tool up new subject that I would have interest in building, I still want those subjects to be successful, because if they are, its good for the them, and good for us, and also means that they might take a chance and tool up something that may not sell. Edited April 4, 2013 by martinfan5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knarf Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 The original 1967 Z/28 was the basis for the 2014 which was a drivers car. Not a sticker package with T-tops. I like how competition improves the breed. Between the Mustang, Challenger and Camaro the cars keep getting better every year with better heritage type models every year. Now if Dodge could see fit to slip in a AAR with the new Cuda thats replacing the Challenger. It would fit perfectly above the R/T and the top dog SRT-8. wait...what...the cuda is coming back??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 wait...what...the cuda is coming back??? Supposedly the Cuda is coming as an SRT brand model (like the Viper) on a shortened LX platform, but the Challenger is going to continue. But nothing has been officially announced yet, so it's all rumor and speculation still at this point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Hearse Posted April 5, 2013 Author Share Posted April 5, 2013 I'd like to see the Cuda myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydar Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 So why did the new 'vette get stuck with the old crappy taillights???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) So why did the new 'vette get stuck with the old crappy taillights???? To make you ask why Edited April 6, 2013 by martinfan5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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