So is the 'rat rod' craze officially over?

[grayghost]

Wow that's one big thread and awsome pic.

Thanks for posting it.

[Nitro Neil]

Love your "Determination", Neil.

Thanks Bill, that picture spoke to me the first time I saw it.

[Dr. Cranky]

Wonderful pictures, thank you.

[shucky]

I love the pictures, but to say these things were "safe" and that they "went straight, start, stop, blah blah blah" is complete nonsense. Anyone with half a brain knows the early days of drag racing was plagued with problems, crashes, explosions, parts falling off, etc, etc, etc. The first few pictures are all it takes to see that lol. Since the point is still being missed, "rats" are not purpose built for any type of "motorsports" competition .. they are more a rolling scultpure of the builders imagination (like any custom). The cars in the link you provided sure look cool, but still crash, explode, wheelie out of control, jump off the ground, etc, etc, etc, and THEY ARE PURPOSE BUILT with "safety in mind." lolololololololololololol.

Great pics though! Thanks!

Edited November 26, 2013 by shucky

[Greg Cullinan]

I love the pictures, but to say these things were "safe" and that they "went straight, start, stop, blah blah blah" is complete nonsense. Anyone with half a brain knows the early days of drag racing was plagued with problems, crashes, explosions, parts falling off, etc, etc, etc. The first few pictures are all it takes to see that lol. Since the point is still being missed, "rats" are not purpose built for any type of "motorsports" competition .. they are more a rolling scultpure of the builders imagination (like any custom). The cars in the link you provided sure look cool, but still crash, explode, wheelie out of control, jump off the ground, etc, etc, etc, and THEY ARE PURPOSE BUILT with "safety in mind." lolololololololololololol.

Great pics though! Thanks!

Very well thought out logical post. But this is the Internet,don't let it happen again.

[cobraman]

Thanks for the link Bill. Some very cool build ideas there.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Anyone with half a brain knows the early days of drag racing was plagued with problems, crashes, explosions, parts falling off, etc, etc, etc... SO YOU WERE THERE WITH WHAT, A 1/4 BRAIN ?. :lol:

Since the point is still being missed... YOU SAID IT.

To clarify, many early hot-rods were drag raced BECAUSE THEY COULD BE. That's because they were built well enough so they COULD be raced...not specifically TO be raced. Early drag racing and lakes cars were usually street-driven hot-rods, real cars used for real transportation, by guys who wanted to DRIVE something different, and wanted to compete with other DRIVABLE CARS. The CARS came first, THEN the motorsports followed.

Poor craftsmanship just won't go. Not far, not fast.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

Thanks for the link Bill. Some very cool build ideas there.

Glad you like it. There's a lot of stuff here I've never seen before, and a lot of combinations of components I'd never really considered...like the Hemi in the MG. Did you happen to see the flat-top Comet?

Edited November 26, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

Wonderful pictures, thank you.

Glad you like them Doc, but better to thank the guys over on the HAMB for digging up and posting all of them.

[jbwelda]

you brought up mickey Thompson as someone who personified the spirit of hot rodding in that last thread (so safely closed by the safety police amongst us). interesting choice...wasn't he murdered in his driveway purportedly by people unhappy with his performance in a side "business"? Sort of proves my point ultimately, doesn't it.

the truth is much more that no one we have ever heard of truly personifies the spirit of hot rodding because originally it was a bunch of anonymous people, mostly fresh out of the war, with nothing to do and some junk around to do it with. and mostly their lives were fueled by testosterone, liquor, bennies, and a bad attitude. some went on to be famous but along with the fame came the responsibility so much of what I consider the true spirit (as revived largely through what are called rat rods) went out of their lives...of course marrying and having kids probably didn't hurt either. but the true spirit of hot rodding I think is almost parallel to the 81 club (if you get the allusion)...hopped up bad boys driving unsafe at any speed cars at high rates of speed nor caring a bit about what society thought. sort of like this Robert Williams painting

in other words, hot/rat rods are not the domain of graybeards sitting around commenting on how tasty that billet fillet is...true hot rods are the domain of disenfranchised young men (mostly) who have limited funds and make things work whether they end up pretty or not, and not much respect for the society that contains them and their dreams. most builders of "rat" rods that I have known fit this description pretty much to a tee, and I have known and know a few of them here on the west coast (no you have never heard of them so this is not a name dropping contest...doesn't mean they don't build kool stuff).

to me, anyway, there are few who personify the spirit of hot rodding in modern times more than, if not rat rods, then the Asian kid down the block who spends his salary earned as a bagger at the local supermarket on his slammed Honda civic; who has put the poorly fitting body kit on, twin turboed the motor, added a paint can exhaust system with very little noise suppression and drives up and down your street way too fast all the time who you want to pitch a bottle through his windshield every time he comes by but you are just too *civilized* to actually do so, so you yell something like "BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH kids SLOW DOWN!" while they glare back with their eyes bloodshot from too much crank and not enough sleep and give you the salute that implies you are number 1. THAT is the spirit of hot rodding: to upset the status quo and wake the neighbors at ungodly hours with exhaust noise and loud music, screaming and squealing females and screeching tires. And you just hope against hope its not your daughter in the back seat with them.

[Ace-Garageguy]

you brought up mickey Thompson as someone who personified the spirit of hot rodding in that last thread (so safely closed by the safety police amongst us). interesting choice...wasn't he murdered in his driveway purportedly by people unhappy with his performance in a side "business"? Sort of proves my point ultimately, doesn't it.

Frankly, this statement shouldn't even be acknowledged, much less dignified with a response, but if you had ANY idea of what you're talking about, you'd know that Thompson's and his wife's murderer was finally convicted, and was a business rival who had been screwing everyone he had any dealings with for years. Read the dammed story of the investigation, trial and conviction.

Thompson came from a working class family. His father was a cop. He got in a little trouble street racing when he was a teen, but then went on to build a string of record-breaking and groundbreaking competition machinery, from junk in the beginning, and was quite simply one of the most gifted self-taught natural engineers in motorsports. Even his Challenger I LSR vehicle was built with a LOT of salvaged, junkyard parts (20+ year-old LaSalle gearboxes, for example).

A lot of people were jealous of his accomplishments, and in the spirit of what is so unfortunately a large part of human-nature, took every opportunity to try to ridicule his ideas and tear him down.

The successes he won speak for themselves, and in his self-designed Challenger I he became the fastest man on Earth in a wheel-driven vehicle in 1960.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry P.]

Gotta agree with Roger. That car doesn't look particularly "safe" to me...

[Ace-Garageguy]

Gotta agree with Roger. That car doesn't look particularly "safe" to me...

Yeah, but it passed whatever tech inspection it had to pass that day...and was obviously built after roll bars became mandatory. I never said ALL hot rods were built safe from the beginning, because a lot of the guys just didn't know any better. As they learned what made a car particularly risky to operate, sanctioning bodies and clubs made competition rules to try to avoid needless tragedies.To RACE, you have to be able to get something down or around the course, and that means a certain level of performance is necessary, and the cars were meant to be MOVING things.Tech rules evolved over time, because it became obvious that without standards of construction and safety, people would get hurt more than was necessary in the pursuit of more speed. It happened pretty quickly, and came about BECAUSE THE CARS WERE MEANT TO BE MOVING THINGS, not static piles. And I kinda doubt it had any saw blades welded to it, or a toilet seat just to be "cool".

But I tell you what...anybody can think anything they want, about ANYTHING they want. I'm glad I live in a country where it's still possible to build a rat-rod, even a poorly-welded one with no brakes, if that's what you want.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry P.]

We've been tossing around this whole "rat rod" thing pretty thoroughly lately. Here's how I see it:

Traditional hot rods (I'm talking late '40s-'50s era... the "true" hot rods to Bill and many others) were built by guys with more ambition than money. They built their cars to go as fast as they could go, using whatever parts their wallets could afford. The look of the car wasn't the primary goal... going fast was. These "real" hot rods wound up looking the way they did with very little, if any, intent by the builder to make them look a certain way.

Today's rat rods, on the other hand, are not necessarily built to go fast. Or go at all. They are built to look at. The intent isn't to create a fast car on the cheap, the intent is to create a visual statement.

Apples and oranges.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Dang...I wish I'd said it that well, and in so few words. Right on, brother. Know what I'm sayin'?

EDIT: A big BUT...the guys in the early days who could manage to afford nice bodywork, upholstery and shiny paint, or who at least wanted it, were far from the minority. The intent evolved from building bare-bones speed into building refined and finished vehicles that looked as good as they performed. The intent finally evolved into PAYING someone else to build expensive showpieces that often didn't get driven at all, though the "purist" segment never really died; it was just overshadowed by the big-buck billet trailer-queens. The rat thing, as discussed ad nauseam, was a backlash against the expensive, pro-built, eat-off-of-it-clean segment of the hobby. Now it's spun to silly extremes, and the "build it nice and drive it" faction is beginning to make a comeback.

They're ALL interesting and worthwhile creative endeavors. To each his own.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry P.]

Dang...I wish I'd said it that well, and in so few words. Right on, brother. Know what I'm sayin'?

Yup.

[shucky]

What happened? My 1/4 brain doesn't quite understand what just happened. This was more enjoyable when we all had to agree with ACE's opinion and if we had our own it wasn't valid because it wasn't his. I also really enjoy having a cyber bully know-it-all on a model car forum. This is why people leave this place and never return. The funny part of all of this? Harry didn't say anything that anyone else didn't say. BUT now its "okay" with the ACE. LOL. A bunch of folks said the so-called "rats" were built as rolling art pieces, form over functionality. Harry says this "Today's rat rods, on the other hand, are not necessarily built to go fast. Or go at all. They are built to look at. The intent isn't to create a fast car on the cheap, the intent is to create a visual statement."

And ..... now its okay.

I better agree or I'll get attacked again for making sense. Vintage drag cars are SAFE! Rat Rods are NOT! I got it now. Harry is there a block button on this forum? Please show me where it is.

Harry, found it! Officially BLOCKED. So happy now!

Edited November 27, 2013 by shucky

[Ace-Garageguy]

What happened? My 1/4 brain doesn't quite understand what just happened. This was more enjoyable when we all had to agree with ACE's opinion and if we had our own it wasn't valid because it wasn't his. I also really enjoy having a cyber bully know-it-all on a model car forum. This is why people leave this place and never return. The funny part of all of this? Harry didn't say anything that anyone else didn't say. BUT now its "okay" with the ACE. LOL. A bunch of folks said the so-called "rats" were built as rolling art pieces, form over functionality. Harry says this "Today's rat rods, on the other hand, are not necessarily built to go fast. Or go at all. They are built to look at. The intent isn't to create a fast car on the cheap, the intent is to create a visual statement."

And ..... now its okay.

I better agree or I'll get attacked again for making sense. Vintage drag cars are SAFE! Rat Rods are NOT! I got it now. Harry is there a block button on this forum? Please show me where it is.

Here's the part where your 1/4 brain let you down. The early spin the discussion took was whether rat-rods were built in the SPIRIT of the original hot-rods. i think the answer has pretty well been established as "no". Too subtle?

Maybe the definition of "spirit" is what's throwing you. Try this..."The loyalty and feeling of inclusion in the social history or collective essence of an institution or group". Understand?

Hot-rods GO. Rat-rods NO go. :)

Edited November 27, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

Sigh.

Why don't we just agree to disagree...those of us who think rat-rods embody the spirit of the early hot-rods don't HAVE to accept the opinion of those who don't, and vise-versa. Life's too short to argue over such a trivial distinction.

In the overall scheme of things, it really doesn't matter a rat's ass.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Bernard Kron]

Well, it is a nice thread over there on the H.A.M.B., full of great photos of drag racing cars in action...

[Deano]

Well, it is a nice thread over there on the H.A.M.B., full of great photos of drag racing cars in action...

Just don't go there expecting to talk about "Rat Rods" There is no tolerance for them on the HAMB. Was a day when they would rip you up and hand you your head for the mere mention of "Rat Rod"; now, I think you just get banned for life. A policy I tend to agree with.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Deano

[slusher]

This is the REAL spirit of hot-rodding.

I would rather drive a rat rod cross country than drive this abomination across the street, much less down a 1/4 mile dragstrip at full throttle! That piece of junk doesn't even have a seat!! I hope he never had to steer to the left because that third of a steering wheel in his hand would almost immediately hit his knee cap. That's a death crash waiting to happen.

You have to really want to race to drive this one. Maybe he is not done with it yet... Great pictures bill..

Edited November 27, 2013 by slusher

[W-409]

We've been tossing around this whole "rat rod" thing pretty thoroughly lately. Here's how I see it:

Traditional hot rods (I'm talking late '40s-'50s era... the "true" hot rods to Bill and many others) were built by guys with more ambition than money. They built their cars to go as fast as they could go, using whatever parts their wallets could afford. The look of the car wasn't the primary goal... going fast was. These "real" hot rods wound up looking the way they did with very little, if any, intent by the builder to make them look a certain way.

Today's rat rods, on the other hand, are not necessarily built to go fast. Or go at all. They are built to look at. The intent isn't to create a fast car on the cheap, the intent is to create a visual statement.

Apples and oranges.

Well Said, Harry!

That is the way I think, too. But I couldn't say it that well.

Anyway that thread is great. I've been reading it through for a couple of months and I'm getting closer of page 100. It sure is a great thread that gives lots of inspiration and ideas of building an Old School Drag Car.

[PappyD340]

This is the REAL spirit of hot-rodding.

I would rather drive a rat rod cross country than drive this abomination across the street, much less down a 1/4 mile dragstrip at full throttle! That piece of junk doesn't even have a seat!! I hope he never had to steer to the left because that third of a steering wheel in his hand would almost immediately hit his knee cap. That's a death crash waiting to happen.

What would be interesting, is to know if this fellow lived to be an old man and tell stories of his racing escapades or if insanity took him out of this world!!

[cobraman]

Glad you like it. There's a lot of stuff here I've never seen before, and a lot of combinations of components I'd never really considered...like the Hemi in the MG. Did you happen to see the flat-top Comet?

Oh ya Bill. I noticed the flat top Comet. I have another flat top in my to build line up to go with my 57 Ford. This time it will be a 62 Impala. I love the Flat tops ! : )