Tom Geiger Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Sheet styrene Structural plastic stockids Art Anderson told the story about the hobby before plastic sheets.. he said they (the older kids) would hang out outside the hobby shop and convince the younger kids to buy the AMT 1961 Ranchero and they'd buy the bed cover from them for a quarter. That was how they got sheet styrene to build from in those days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Art Anderson told the story about the hobby before plastic sheets.. he said they (the older kids) would hang out outside the hobby shop and convince the younger kids to buy the AMT 1961 Ranchero and they'd buy the bed cover from them for a quarter. That was how they got sheet styrene to build from in those days! Oh, I forgot to mention how we got the clear plastic shapes for bubble-topped customs! All we model builders had to do was hang out around the variety store that was about 3 blocks from home--wait for a kid to come out with a newly purchased pkg of Silly Putty! Back then, SP came in a 2-part plastic "egg", in a blister card with very clear 1/2 egg-shaped blisters on each side! Just a quick negotiation, perhaps a dime or two changed hands (back when a dime got you a tall coke at the drug store soda fountain), and bubble tops for two custom car models. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Another improvised method for 'scratchbuilding' before readily available sheet styrene: cardboard stock (like from index cards, business cards, shirt packages, etc.) could be cut to size and shape with scissors, then tube glue was spread on it and allowed to soak into the cardboard and dry. It would make the cardboard more rigid and 'almost' plastic-like! You did what you had to do. That was back in the sewing thread for spark plug wire dark ages, kiddies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshaver Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Danno, Art, yer talking to one of the scrap plastic, button thread with a block of bee's wax model builders too, uh huh ................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bunyan Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 the hobby hasn't changed thats why it is dying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FASTBACK340 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Let's see: I can go on-line, be inspired by a builder in Europe, order my kit from Japan, get correct automotive colors mailed to my house so I can finish my bare metal foiled and polished replica of the perfect build. Including a set of photo-etched keys in the scale ignition switch. Gee…. kinda hard to put my finger on any one thing here. Just kinda loving it and not asking too many questions, if ya know what I mean! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrindy77 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 The biggest change for me has been the addition of the ALPS printer. It has allowed me to make replica race cars that no one would ever make decals for. No other printer that I am aware of prints white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Time and age, to put it mildly! Materials back in the late 50's? Well of course I did buy a few tonneau covers from younger kids who could be persuaded with a quarter or so to part with that part from their AMT Ford or Chevy pickups, but what about putty? Tried Plastic Wood--didn't work. Then experimented with some Revell Type 'S' Cement (Revell's plastic glue) and an old can of Johnson's Baby Powder (left over from my earliest formative years!), and that worked great, but the aroma was a bit embarrassing when my buddies would come over for a group building session! (AMT's Contour Putty was a God-send for sure! Paint? Before there was Testors in the little square bottles, Revell's model paint sets, along with the lesser-known but equally decent paint sets from Comet got a good bit of my allowance and paper-route proceeds. What a discovery, that first rack of Pactra "Sof-Spray" rattle cans--the colors weren't great, but the paint worked great--and when Pactra introduced their first candy colors in 1960--wow! It was about that time that I discovered that Pactra's Flat White (in 3/4 ounce jars for all of 15-cents back then) was the only white paint that would both dry and stick to those early vinyl tires for whitewalls. Some think that it wasn't until Tamiya introduced their "plastic-friendly" spray lacquers back about 15yrs or so that we got lacquer sprays that worked on plastic models with no hassles--not true! AMT Corporation introduced a really nice line of such non-penetrating lacquers in late 1962, going on to produce them until about 1973-74. Tools? My very first modeling tool was a pocket knife that was a birthday present from my Dad at age 10--July 1954--Dad was "old school" meaning that when a son reached age 10, he was old enough for a pocket knife and to learn how to sharpen and maintain it. I literally wore the blades of that knife out on the oil stone, honing it to an edge that in my young mind rivaled the sharpest of Xacto blades. Files? Before hobby shops discovered needle files--it was Mom's fingernail file and orange-wood sticks--Mom never knew (or if she did she never admitted it!) why her nail file kept disappearing! Airbrush you say? I first saw airbrushed finishes when I was probably about 11 or so (1955), when visiting a middle-aged neighbor whose daughter was in my 5th and 6th grade class in school. Mr. Nelson was a model railroader, as well as an advertising artist for our local newspaper (back when newspapers did their own artwork for advertising clients), and showed me what he could do with an airbrush. Finally, on the day after Christmas, 1961, at 17, I walked into our LHS (actually a Mom & Pop Auto Supply Store--Bell Auto Supply), and asked Mr. Weber if he could order up a Binks Wren airbrush, with compressor, a moisture trap and the hoses to go with it. "What in the h**l do you want with one of those?" he asked. I explained that Mr. Nelson recommended that setup to me and I wanted one for painting model cars. "Well, OK--I suppose you have the money for all that?" I showed him (by then a very trusted friend who got a lot of my money at $2 a shot for model car kits!) $100 that I'd saved up, so he got out the catalogs and we agreed on the afore-named Binks setup. "I should have this here tomorrow if I call in the order to (his primary hobby wholesaler whom I won't name here) if I can get through on the phone. He did, and they did--and by 1pm the next day I was on my way home with the first really high-tech bit of equipment my workshop ever had. That Binks diaphragm compressor lasted me until 1990 when it finally gave up, threw it's connecting rod (too old a model by then to get a replacement rod), the Wren is now consigned to a box of memorable model stuff--finally too many trips to the floor irreparably damaged its soft cast-aluminum body, but I still use the moisture trap with every spray job--guess I got my money's worth, huh? Many more tools and bits of equipment have followed me home over these past 61+ years I've been building models, but it's also been "time" that has changed things. I've gotten older, more experienced and questionably a bit wiser over those years. I've learned a ton about techniques (still use a lot I've learned over time of course), and certainly have picked up several hundred pounds of printed reference materials along the way. But should go without saying that since the middle 1990's, the internet has become not only a meeting place with other modelers, but certainly the first place I look for information about this or that car I might be working on. And, along the way, over time, I've been both coast-to-coast and border-to-border in this hobby, both physically and of course, over the net. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 the hobby hasn't changed thats why it is dying... Bull! (to put it mildly!). This hobby is as alive and active as it has EVER been--only the names and our ages have changed! Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Let's see: I can go on-line, be inspired by a builder in Europe, order my kit from Japan, And that's the fun part for me, all the friends I've made from around the world. Even locally, pre-internet days guys from the different clubs didn't mix much at shows. Guys from one club would stand in one corner and guys from another club in the other corner. It wasn't until we got on message boards... as early as the old AOL Model Car Chat on Saturday evenings, that we started talking and became friends when we met at shows. It was the ice breaker that pulled us together as a community. We've gotten so used to things, we don't even seem to notice when a thread here involves guys from 5 different countries! And we do that all the time. And we actually get to meet these guys face to face. I've had visitors from South Africa and Australia (4 different) visit me here in the US. One of the fellows from Australia who occasionally posts on this board has been a friend of mine for a long time. He and his wife recently visited and stayed for a week with me here in PA. There was no 'getting to meet you' phase, we dove right in as old friends. Our wives laughed that we were brothers separated at birth. In fact we went to a swap meet and both bought the same '65 Rambler wagon promo (a dealer had two) and only discovered we did that after the show! We are living in very cool times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartpix Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 For me, it was CA glue, aftermarket parts, & Scale Auto mag. I could still do without the Internet (it sometimes keeps me away from the bench) but it sure is useful, for research, easier access to the aftermarket (no more SASE envelopes), & the forums are like a model club, that meets 24/7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdoggy Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 Interesting point. I remember when I got my first Tamiya kit (Ford Sierra) and I was floored when I opened it and everything was in little compartments and all the items were in individual bags to protect them. I wrote a piece for my club newsletter about this asking when and if the domestic manufacturers would be following along. It would be interesting to pull it out for a read. The US manufacturers did what they did, and quality got worse when they moved production to Mexico, but everything improved when they moved production to China. Manufacturing was better, less flash and problems, no doubt because the Chinese had newer equipment than the ancient presses the American companies were using. There was a bit more quality control and things like chrome trees were done better. Most kits today have everything in separate bags. I was especially impressed with my new AMT Jeep Rubicon, they even molded a plastic bag that has the axles, springs and other parts in separate compartments within the bag. I've also received kits with convertible windshields carefully protected with a cardboard tent, hand taped in place. While kit prices didn't go down, quality went up. And the move to China may have resulted in kit prices stabilizing or at least not rising as fast as they could. No telling what kits would cost today if they were still made domestically. A model worth $2 in 1972 would be worth $12 (on a inflation calculator) now so I can't agree with the manufacturers pricing. The manufacturers raised prices and cut costs to squat so I'm gonna guess they are doing pretty well. Especially since they are continually re-releasing kits with tooling made decades ago in a lot of cases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FASTBACK340 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Tom.... the old AOL Saturday night chat. Wow.... Almost forgot about those early days. The model car list comes to mind too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I remember from '89-97 or so, hanging out in rec.models.scale (and rec.toys.cars) on the internet newsgroups...in the pre-web browser days on unix machines I used the 'rn' and 'trn' programs to read the newsgroups in plain text. That was my first communication w/ other modelers online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill J Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 If I had to pick one thing that has changed modeling, it would be hard to pick THE ONE. I like the aftermarket producers, the new subjects have been mostly interesting and fresh. The Internet has opened a whole world of information sharing, researching and discussion. It also has made things available from all over the world. All, great things. On a negative note, the cost of modeling has reached a level that is probably, in the long term, unsustainable. I recall being a kid and buying a model a week with my allowance and having enough to buy some paint too. Today the cost of a kit is beyond that and the paint can really be a killer on a project, particularly for younger modelers. It is hard to find serious modelers that are young and if you do, how long do you see them around the hobby? So, the escalating costs of building a model have priced a lot of potential modelers out of the market, before they even begin an interest. Eventually, the hobby will run out of 50+ y/o's with money to support their modeling hobby. There may not be enough younger builders to keep it going, perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 A model worth $2 in 1972 would be worth $12 (on a inflation calculator) now so I can't agree with the manufacturers pricing. The manufacturers raised prices and cut costs to squat so I'm gonna guess they are doing pretty well. Especially since they are continually re-releasing kits with tooling made decades ago in a lot of cases Mike, I see you are new to the board so I'll cut you some slack. If you are interested in learning the actual market conditions, read the posts. Yes, a lot of our kits are produced from tooling made a long time ago. But it's not 'long paid for' since the company owners of all the companies are fairly recent and paid a lot of money for those companies. So the tooling isn't free and clear, it's like you buying a 1972 Chevy today. Yea, it's an old car that the original owner had paid off a very long time ago, but it's gone through many hands since, and you paid with it in 2014 dollars. Same applies. And the market has changed greatly. The manufacturers are not selling anywhere near the quantities of kits they did in the heyday. Back when kits were $2. any kit could be a million unit seller. Today, a new tooling that sells 25,000 on it's first outing is a winner. If you can figure the cost of tooling today and divide that across units sold, you'd wonder why they even bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 On a negative note, the cost of modeling has reached a level that is probably, in the long term, unsustainable. Video games aren't exactly cheap, and look how popular they are. I don't think cost is the major factor in today's kids not being drawn to the hobby like we were when we were kids. I think it has more to do with the fact that today's kids have such a wider range of choices available to take up their time... far more choices than we had. Video games, the internet and social media, smart phones, YouTube, etc.... NONE of which existed back in the '60s when model car building was a very popular pastime. So with more choices and shorter attention spans, naturally today's kids are less likely to flock to model car building (or stamp collecting or woodworking or any other of the "classic" hobbies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Video games aren't exactly cheap, and look how popular they are. I don't think cost is the major factor in today's kids not being drawn to the hobby like we were when we were kids. Kids today aren't whining that kits used to be $2. They are in the here and now. If a video game or sneakers are $100, so be it. They don't think of that as a lot of money, but 40 years from now when sneakers are $400, they'll be reminiscing about the good ole days just like us. I was speaking to a guy in a hobby shop a while back. A 'one of us' guy I've known a long time. His perception is that kids of today who do want to build a model will come into the shop and they're looking for modern subjects. They won't flinch that a Tamiya Honda kit is $60. Then they'll buy another $60 worth of supplies to build it. Edited February 11, 2014 by Tom Geiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartpix Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 A model worth $2 in 1972 would be worth $12 (on a inflation calculator) now so I can't agree with the manufacturers pricing. The manufacturers raised prices and cut costs to squat so I'm gonna guess they are doing pretty well. Especially since they are continually re-releasing kits with tooling made decades ago in a lot of cases You're comparing apples & oranges. A $2 kit, in '72, had a chassis with molded exhaust, front & rear suspension. The interior was a 1 piece tub, sometimes with molded in seats, and bad detail. The engine was a blob of parts, with a hole in the oil pan, for the metal axles to go through. Did I mention the metal axles. Parts count was about half that of a newer kit. Now we have multi-piece chassis, with separate suspension, with springs, shocks, & sway bars. Interiors consist of the floor, finely detailed, separate side panels, & dashboards with decal gauges. The engines are accurate representations of the real thing, carbs that look like carbs, & many have decals for the air cleaners & valve covers. Oh yeah, oil pans without holes. In 1972, the US national average price of a gallon of regular gasoline was 36 cents, today it's $3.32 per gallon average, close to 10 times the price. So that $2 kit, time 10, plus all the extra parts & detail comes out to be a pretty good deal, to me. Your mileage may vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 You're comparing apples & oranges. A $2 kit, in '72, had a chassis with molded exhaust, front & rear suspension. The interior was a 1 piece tub, sometimes with molded in seats, and bad detail. The engine was a blob of parts, with a hole in the oil pan, for the metal axles to go through. Did I mention the metal axles. Parts count was about half that of a newer kit. Of course, with Round 2 that same kit may now be available for $24 w/ improved box art... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Video games aren't exactly cheap, and look how popular they are. I don't think cost is the major factor in today's kids not being drawn to the hobby like we were when we were kids. I think it has more to do with the fact that today's kids have such a wider range of choices available to take up their time... far more choices than we had. Video games, the internet and social media, smart phones, YouTube, etc.... NONE of which existed back in the '60s when model car building was a very popular pastime. So with more choices and shorter attention spans, naturally today's kids are less likely to flock to model car building (or stamp collecting or woodworking or any other of the "classic" hobbies). Not just with kids, but compared to other adult pastimes (incl. video games--I have plenty of friends my age that are active gamers), like golf, for instance, modeling is very cheap. I've dabbled in golf, tennis, skiing and snowboarding over the last 20 years and to be serious about any of them can be very expensive.. Edited February 11, 2014 by Rob Hall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartpix Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Of course, with Round 2 that same kit may now be available for $24 w/ improved box art... More like $18 - $20 (Tower Hobbies), still reasonable with my formula, above. Also, see Tom Greiger's response, about Round 2 having to buy out all those old molds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Ambrose Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I don't think there's ever been a better time to be building model cars. The Internet has put the world's largest library at our fingertips. That makes a huge difference because we're no longer limited by publishers interests. Back when we only had magazines for information, we were limited to reading about things that would be reasonably popular. Not so much any more. Now we have the opposite problem. That, by itself is a huge impact and enabled a lot of other things like: This forum. A plethora of cottage industries that can now affordably reach people who need their products. ...which brought a huge variety of detail parts, transkits, and other items which add interest to our hobby. Our selection of paints is much better than it used to be. Model companies, who can now more accurately gauge interest before commiting to products. A bunch of people who rediscovered their interest in model cars (or other subjects). Coming soon: 3D printing 3D scanning Software that will make use of the above devices. We'll start by using 3D printing to make masters for resin casting. Eventually, we'll be able to use 3D scanning to capture things like car bodes. Then we can make the masters with 3D printing. Right now, neither technology has either the reliability or the performance to be mainstream for a cottage industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadkill2525 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Coming soon: 3D printing 3D scanning Software that will make use of the above devices. All of which Revell scoffs at because that would make models too accurate. Edited February 12, 2014 by Roadkill2525 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clovis Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) And the market has changed greatly. The manufacturers are not selling anywhere near the quantities of kits they did in the heyday. Back when kits were $2. any kit could be a million unit seller. Today, a new tooling that sells 25,000 on it's first outing is a winner. If you can figure the cost of tooling today and divide that across units sold, you'd wonder why they even bother. As an armchair, Monday morning outsider, I'd guess that if the companies have enough good sellers in a year's time, they are making pretty good money in this game. A $25 kit is most likely being sold for $12.50 on a wholesale level. If the model company sells 25,000 @ $12.50 each, that totals about $312,500 in gross revenue. They still have production, tooling, overhead, salaries, etc. to pay out of that gross. I'd venture to say that the production costs can be pretty low. Cheap Chinese labor and the Yuan, which the Chinese goverment has pegged artificially low against the US dollar (manipulated), makes for some pretty hefty margins for the model companies who are importing to the world market. My guess is that the average model company is making their money off of re-issues of kits, and balancing out the rest with new tooling. My other guess is that it wouldn't take too many misses or losers to sink a company in a few years time. I'd bet, due to the competitive nature of the business, that any model company that is resting on it's laurels with re-issues, and isn't producing new releases, probably won't be around very long. The market is just too tight, and the mass market is a fraction of what it used to be. Of course, I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express recently (last year), so that makes me an expert, right? Edited February 12, 2014 by clovis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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