CHEETAH

[Speedfreak]

This is the single biggest 'wives tale' from internet pundits and wizards ever perpetrated in all of Cobra lore.

A 427 or 428 with aluminum heads, intake and water pump weighs 520 pounds. Iron heads and water pump add 60 pounds. My replica, weighing about 150 pounds more than an aluminum '60's car, has a weight distribution of 48 / 52 - with me in it it's 47 / 53. That's wet with 1/2 tank of fuel. An original would have the same distribution, (given the aluminum parts).

A '60's 289, which had iron heads and pump weighs about 150 pounds less than the big block (smaller frame diameter, brakes and narrower bodywork). But the same distribution. It also had a transverse front leaf. The lighter overall mass did not translate into better lap times or transient handling numbers. Smaller contact patch, higher roll centers and increased bump steer all limited its cornering ability. Just look at the vintage photos of inside front wheels off the pavement.

What is always confused is that the smaller car is easier to drive under its limit. Nitwits construe that as better handling. The big block requires a driver experienced to work harder to get the higher cornering limits out of the chassis and limit the always-present oversteer. When that happens, you're going faster than the small block car driven by the same or equivalent driver. No big block understeers with that weigh distribution. They are both (and Cheetah) hampered by the 90" wheelbase compared to modern sports cars.

Getting all the power down at corner exit is a skill to be learned with seat time.

For lap times the big block car is superior in every way.

Drive one of each on a track and you'll understand this more easily. But work up to the limits with care...

Cato, I love what you say here! I had a conversation about this very thing with a friend of mine several months ago. I tried to explain to him the difference between the 427 Cobra lore of 'not handling well' vs it just requiring a more experienced/informed(seat time) driver to get it to do just that. The former implies elemental design flaws preventing it from handling well no matter the variables, as you explain so well this is/was not the case. I'm still not sure I convinced him.

[afx]

[Greg Myers]

Yep. history from the source. Always different than remembered. http://www.amazon.com/TOP-ELEVEN-COBRA-BOOKS/lm/R3HOPU136F8IRG/ref=cm_lm_byauthor_title_full see comment on #7

[Cato]

Cato, I love what you say here! The former implies elemental design flaws preventing it from handling well no matter the variables, as you explain so well this is/was not the case. I'm still not sure I convinced him.

Gene,

Don't wish to hi-jack this Cheetah thread so no more Cobra dissertations.

Don't try to convince anybody. It seems that the armchair scientists who write or read Cobra lore knows WAAAY more than anyone who's built, raced and owned one.

Appreciate your comments.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Cato

[Greg Myers]

and let's remember a replica, does not a Cobra make.

[Cato]

and let's remember a replica, does not a Cobra make.

-and how would you know??

[Danno]

Yikes! That is one ugly, nasty carpy waste of resin! Wow, David, you'll be a true craftsman to carve a decent looking model out of THAT!

[Greg Myers]

" armchair scientists who write or read Cobra lore" ? So as a Cobra replica owner you are putting your self in the position of expert above anyone that has written anything about the Cobra, said writers usually being people that were there working on the cars, racing the cars , designing the cars and having more to do with these icons than you'll ever imagine.Not to mention your contention that anyone that reads any of these books can't possibly understand, much less retain what they've read ? The book refered to by AFX was written by Dave Friedman , http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?ie=UTF8&field-author=Dave+Friedman&search-alias=books&text=Dave+Friedman&sort=relevancerank Caroll Shelby's official photographer, been there done that , he has written a few other books on the subject.

Really?

Edited May 17, 2014 by Greg Myers

[Cato]

You should never underestimate to whom you are talking on a web site. You don't know what I've done and what I know.

Gene read my explanation and understood it.

See the thread I'm going to start so as not to be unkind to the OP of this one.

We'll discuss it there and it will be my thread so no one is disadvantaged. Working on my Rolls right now and it definitely takes priority over 'Cobra Nonsense'.

[Greg Myers]

You should never underestimate to whom you are talking on a web site. You don't know what I've done and what I know.

Sage advise.

[Greg Myers]

Now on Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261490361839&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 only $201

[afx]

The HRM kit which is waay more detailed looks like a bargain at $175.

[cobraman]

Now on Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261490361839&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 only $201

This version just doesn't do it for me.

[Greg Myers]

Edited May 27, 2014 by Greg Myers

[Daddyfink]

Oh yeah, this does it for me!

[cobraman]

I reserve the right to change my mind. I must admit that looks a darn site better than that line drawing on the box.

[Greg Myers]

Hard to beat one with a top.

[Mr mopar]

I just got a body today of the Cheetah, where to start ? is the frame an easy one to make? and the interior ? anybody I need help with this!

[Greg Myers]

I 'd start at the beginning of  THIS thread.  Then move on line, Google is your friend.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Greg Myers

[Mr mopar]

I need to know where would I get the rear and front suspension from witch kit ?

[Greg Myers]

You have to do your home work looking at all the pictures. The one above is on a funny car chassis.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I need to know where would I get the rear and front suspension from witch kit ?

For pix, just google "Bill Thomas Cheetah chassis". Lots of 'em.

This looks like a pretty good site, though the chassis shown may not in fact be an original....   http://www.cckhistoric.com/tag/bill-thomas-cheetah/

And as Greg says above, the line drawing 3 posts up is of the Fiberglass Trends drag-car clone, NOT a real road-racing Cheetah. Two completely different animals, different chassis, different suspension.

The rear suspension, to the best of my foggy recollection, is basically '63 Corvette independent, as are (I think) the front spindles.

The rear chunk, axles and uprights I believe are pretty much stock Corvette, but coil springs are substituted for the 'Vette's transverse leaf, and lightweight tubular trailing arms replace the heavy stamped and welded stock GM parts.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Mr mopar]

Ok that will help me out a lot thanks guy's !

[Exotics_Builder]

Back when Gerry Chevalier was doing the Cheetah in his Mini Exotics line (long before he sold it to R and D Unique), he suggested using the AMT Mercedes 300SL Gullwing kit as the "donor" and the AMT 63 Vette for the FI engine.  After I bought my HRM version, I gave my kit to Bill Lastovitch (of Revell) and he had a 300SL to combine.  Sadly, he died before he took it on and these went away in the estate sale.  I have heard of some folks doing the whole thing with AMT's 63 Vette but have never seen a WIP or finished product.