Coker Tires philosophy, from the latest Issue of HRD

[johnbuzzed]

I realized the meaning of this topic when I read the first post, and I can see why it morphed into a tire sidewall soapbox. I don't know the mechanics involved but I have read that injection molded styrene can be pretty tough on molds; I wonder if tire-quality rubber has that same property. If it does, how does Coker freshen up their molds to such pristine condition, while the model companies continue to produce sub-par quality re-issues of ancient kits? And, regarding the tire sidewall issue: the same company that habitually supplies no-name tires is also the company that produces all-new kits that are lacking fidelity in scale, contours and dimensions. I wonder why.

[Brett Barrow]

What I don't understand is why all model kits used to have branded tires, and everyone was happy... and suddenly now "licensing fees" are being blamed for the blank generic tires in today's kits.

Weren't licensing issues in play 20 years ago?

Did the tire companies all decide to jack up their licensing fees so high that all the model manufacturers can no longer afford them? Seems unlikely.

Or... as I suspect, was is that the model companies, in an attempt to save a few bucks, decided to stop paying any licensing fees altogether to the tire manufacturers, and just put generic blank tires in kits.

Can't say it better than Ace and Art already have......

. Our first license was with GoodYear. They charged us $25 a year, a sign contract release and a product sample. This is ALL that is needed to protect the company in EVERY area of the law. Copyright, liability and trademark law all covered 100%. The choice by some company's to turn licensing from protection under the law to a profit center is a completely different topic. We can talk about it forever.....but we can't change it.

Revell and Tamiya wiping their sidewalls clean (and eliminating Goodyear sponsor decals from race car kits) back in the early 2000's was a direct "FU" response to Goodyear's increased demands for higher licensing fees.

I've got to think that it was a pretty substantial amount (much more than 25$ a year) if it pissed off two of the largest plastic model companies. The number I hear floated around most often is that they wanted 3% of retail on each kit (Which was what NASCAR was getting from their kits). Mind you, the manufacturers only make around 10% of retail on a kit, so it's a pretty big deal to see your profit margin cut by a third (or half on NASCAR kits).

I guess since Round2 doesn't spend nearly as much on new tooling and product development as Tamiya (which has only recently become a Goodyear licensee again) or Revell they're better able to absorb the increased cost to have Goodyear licensed tires in some of their kits, or (more likely) Goodyear has lowered their licensing fees.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Brett Barrow

[Dave Van]

Revell and Tamiya wiping their sidewalls clean (and eliminating Goodyear sponsor decals from race car kits) back in the early 2000's was a direct "FU" response to Goodyear's increased demands for higher licensing fees.

I've got to think that it was a pretty substantial amount (much more than 25$ a year) if it pissed off two of the largest plastic model companies. The number I hear floated around most often is that they wanted 3% of retail on each kit (Which was what NASCAR was getting from their kits). Mind you, the manufacturers only make around 10% of retail on a kit, so it's a pretty big deal to see your profit margin cut by a third (or half on NASCAR kits).

I guess since Round2 doesn't spend nearly as much on new tooling and product development as Tamiya (which has only recently become a Goodyear licensee again) or Revell they're better able to absorb the increased cost to have Goodyear licensed tires in some of their kits, or (more likely) Goodyear has lowered their licensing fees.

Correct.......GoodYears fees went up a BUNCH....but by that time I was out of the biz. I have even heard rumor later GoodYear realized playing hard ball was a mistake and went back from the per model fee to a reasonable fee. The model company sent them a bill for the cost to engrave GoodYear on all the molds.......you know what happened!

Round2 has much more product line to spread the cost across. TONS of die cast in 1/64 to 1/18. It's just a different deal. I kinda stand with Revell....charge me to advertise YOUR product?!?!?!?

[Harry P.]

I kinda stand with Revell....charge me to advertise YOUR product?!?!?!?

It's not a matter of advertising. Licensing fees are all about protecting your intellectual property, like brand name, logo, etc. But it is true that Goodyear (or anyone else) could charge only a very small fee, just to protect their rights and keep everything legal. Charging a huge licensing fee to a model kit manufacturer for the use of your name and logo on a model kit's tires does look like nothing more than a money grab.

But does anyone here actually have the hard numbers? Or are we all just speculating about the "huge" licensing fees?

[Greg Myers]

Seems as if there are several experts that have weighed in on this thread myself not included. Comments ?

[Dave Van]

But does anyone here actually have the hard numbers? Or are we all just speculating about the "huge" licensing fees?

The only fees I ever paid was the $25 they charged at first. BUT......talking to industry insiders when it happened..... the fee went to a flat fee and a per item fee. I never saw any proposal myself....but do know it was considered enough that kit prices retail would have to go up $2-3....remember drivers, sponsors and teams were doing the same thing at the time......so $30 NASCAR kit in 1999 would not sell......

[Art Anderson]

I realized the meaning of this topic when I read the first post, and I can see why it morphed into a tire sidewall soapbox. I don't know the mechanics involved but I have read that injection molded styrene can be pretty tough on molds; I wonder if tire-quality rubber has that same property. If it does, how does Coker freshen up their molds to such pristine condition, while the model companies continue to produce sub-par quality re-issues of ancient kits? And, regarding the tire sidewall issue: the same company that habitually supplies no-name tires is also the company that produces all-new kits that are lacking fidelity in scale, contours and dimensions. I wonder why.

Of course, look at what Coker gets per tire.

Art

[Ace-Garageguy]

Changing times. Goodyear built the tires for Mickey Thompson's Challenger One, including laying out the bucks to develop a groundbreaking engineering R&D program based on jet aircraft tire technology. They did it as a promotional write-off, obviously, but also because Firestone had politely shown Mr. Thompson to the door. It was a hugely expensive program, especially in light of the limited media attention Bonneville racing has usually received. Still they did it, just 'cause it was cool. Car guys and tire guys in management, ya' know?

These days, the car would be called the GOODYEAR Challenger, in letters a foot tall, but at the time, all they got was a few little decals on the car. It would be interesting to know if Revell paid Goodyear a license fee for the logos on the Challenger kit sidewalls and decals.

Somewhere there was a switch to where consumers were trained to PAY for the privilege of wearing some company's advertising on their clothes (Nike, Polo, RayBan, etc.) and I guess the marketing dweesels began to see a cash cow every time a logo was reproduced.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Greg Myers]

Just got a new car a few months back. First item of business when I got home ? Take off the dealer licence plate frame. Next up , remove the dealer sticker from the trunk. Lucky it wasn't screwed on.

[Dave Van]

Just got a new car a few months back. First item of business when I got home ? Take off the dealer licence plate frame. Next up , remove the dealer sticker from the trunk. Lucky it wasn't screwed on.

I do the same thing......the last new car had a sticker dealer 'tag' on the trunk.....a heat gun cured that!

[Joe Handley]

It's been two years since I bought the 200 and have yet to get rid of the sticker, plate holders went in the trash as soon as the official state license plates were installed.

[lordairgtar]

I was approached to do art for a tee shirt company depicting cars. I was told to not put any of the trim bits in the drawing that called out the car's name or model. When asked, the owner said he got in trouble for selling shirts with unsecured licensing to use said trademarks. I countered with the fact that the design itself is a copyrighted property, I mean a 68 Corvette drawing still looks like a Vette, even if the name is not drawn on the car. I refused the work because I don't think the guy was reputable nor would I want to be named in a suit because my name would be on the drawings. I can do a singular drawing and not be in trouble, but making multiple prints of the drawing might cause me trouble. I don't think the car makers are going after artists like they were in the 80s and early 90s, but why push it.

[Art Anderson]

Correct.......GoodYears fees went up a BUNCH....but by that time I was out of the biz. I have even heard rumor later GoodYear realized playing hard ball was a mistake and went back from the per model fee to a reasonable fee. The model company sent them a bill for the cost to engrave GoodYear on all the molds.......you know what happened!

Round2 has much more product line to spread the cost across. TONS of die cast in 1/64 to 1/18. It's just a different deal. I kinda stand with Revell....charge me to advertise YOUR product?!?!?!?

And yet, if one looks closely at the tires in Revell's '49 Mercury station wagon kit---they are clearly engraved in raised detail....FIRESTONE! Of course the lettering, and the Firestone logo are quite small, as in keeping with tires of that era which could be made either white or black wall, all lettering was outboard of the "scuff" bead, as the space between that bead and the bead of the tire against the rim had to be kept open, so that the black layer of rubber could be buffed off of the tire casing to expose the layer of white rubber which made the white sidewall.

But, the tire mfr information is clearly on those tires.

Art

[Edsel-Dan]

I am almost betting, That Revell never had a problem with Firestone demanding Increased fees

like Goodyear.

It appears that most tires that are now Blank were All formerly Goodyear branded.

I have the Cali-Wheels issue of the 60 Impala has the Firestone Wide-White wall insert tires!!

Sadly, all issues of the 59 Impala have the Old Generic No tread detail white wall inserts

from OLD 50's/60's Monogram kits!!!

I have not been able to get a recent re-issue of either 59 Caddy kit. Did they remove the

BF Goodrich Silvertown labels on those??

[Longbox55]

I can see Firestone, and by extension, Bridgestone, not giving too much grief about using their name/logos on a scale model, they need all the advertizing they can get! These days, you just about can't give a Firestone/Bridgestone tire away in the 1:1 world, nobody wants them since the whole Ford Explorer issue.