Tape trouble

[Rudy2013]

Hey guys im fed up and need some help everytime i try to tape a body to two tone it when i remove the tape it usually pulls the paint off of the colour im trying to protect ive tried primer ive wett sanded before hand with 2000 1500 grit paper tried with and without primer im using the model master gloss white acrylic ive tried the tamiya tape the yellow frogg tape the green painters tape ive washed the bodies in dawn dish soap and let dry overnight as an example i painted the firestone 78 ford 4x4 kit white sunday afternoon and let it sit till tonight wensday and when i was taping it i repostioned the tape and off the white came didnt even get a chance to spray the red colour what am i doin wrong ???? I see lots of you fellas with nice sharp lines so there must be a way but hell if I know any thoughts would be helpfull

Thanks Rudy

[64SS350]

I would start by waiting longer before any contact with the painted parts at all. I don't handle mine for a minimum of 4 or 5 days, if I know it will be masked off, even longer.

[tbill]

not enough dry time is my guess. if I am going to two tone, I do base color, then put it in a dehydrator overnight, let it sit the next day while I am at work, then I can tape off and do second color, I use lacquer mostly though. and I use Tamiya tape and frog tape.

Edited May 29, 2014 by tbill

[slusher]

Tamiya tape is great and if your taping enamel you need a week or more dry time before tape. Lacquer I would go a week....

[DrGlueblob]

^^ What they said.

Enamels take a LONG time to dry sometimes.

[Modelbuilder Mark]

What primer are you using? The paint needs something to "bite" into.

[fitforbattle]

Also, in my experience with painting rc polycarbonate bodies, removing the tape in an angle towards the paint edge helps. Also, sometimes I cut with an xacto knife along the edge.

[jwrass]

Rudy, I have the same question as Mark. However I still will address some potential problems. I have been professional 1:1 custom painter for some 35+ years. Some of the theories here with regard to dry times have their merit however I do multiple tape outs on a daily basis with no problems (and have done so on all types of paint) the worst problem you should ever have with tape outs is tape tracks due to the paint being to soft.... never paint peeling if the substrate is properly pre paired. One of the problems I see in the modeling community is the grit of sand paper they use it is way to fine, as Mark stated you need BITE. It is my opinion that if modelers would use more 1:1 practices their builds would be much better. I could go into priming and block sanding etc but I will stick (sorry for the pun) to the subject.

The final grit of sand paper that I think should be used is 600 to 800 followed with a grey scuff pad. Any type of plastic (styrene, fiberglass, carbon fiber) all have a affinity to hold a static electricity charge thus dust and nuggies are drawn to the surface and the more you rub it the most static is produced. A product that is commonly used on 1:1 to nullify this problem is called Rapid Tac which was invented for the sign industry. Before Rapid Tac came along we used to mix our own anti static juice it is 20% Isopropyl Alcohol and 80% Distilled Water (by volume) just before you apply your top coat mist this solution on, wipe it dry, tack it and apply your top coat. You will be amazed at how much cleaner you paint jobs will be.

I use 3M and FBS tapes with few failures, some times the tape my be a bit to sticky, to dull the tape run it over clean very tight cotton fabric

One more tip..... on tape outs a common problem can be bleed through, to combat this I take the color that has been taped off and lightly dust the tape line with this color, this will seal the tape and make for a crisp line definition. With candies or exotic colors I use clear for this process. When pulling the mask line try to pull the tape at a 180 angle to the surface, many times I pull the tape while the paint is tacky but this is a high wire act and I hold my breath when ever I do this.

I know this is a windy response,,, but it's not easy to explain in a few words. Bottom line I believe you have a adhesion problem due to lack of bite. 1500-2000 grit is what we use to cut and buff, it does not give you much tooth for your paint to hang on to!

Respectfully Submitted, jwrass

[Rudy2013]

thanks for the info guys after i strip this latest build ill try the 800 grit and the dusting method to prevent bleed threw well i never thought of that but ill be sure to give that a whril as well wish me luck, better yet i got some styrene sheets kickin around so practice time for the weekend lol

[jwrass]

Rudy, If you have any questions give me a shout, I have learned so much from so many over the years it's a joy to give back and share as much as I can!!!!

Oh!!!! On those transition lines, bring the color on slow, and not too many coats just enough to get the coverage you want, unmask and bury in in clear!!!

Good luck on those panels this weekend!!! I know you will do fine

jwrass

[Lunajammer]

I use low tack tape, which includes Tamiya tapes, as much as possible. For anything else, only 3M tapes. Using no-name tapes will be the most expensive dollar you ever saved.

[jwrass]

I have looked at Tamiya tapes and they are not for me! I agree no name tapes are a waste of money (so is Tamiya quantity vs cost) 3M or FBS for me. FBS has only been around for a few years, however they cater to the 1:1 custom paint market, Once you use this stuff you will ween yourself from all other tapes including 3M. I do all my tape outs with FBS. I still use 3M on the masking machine but for all my custom work it's FBS. I get mine from my jobber but it can be purchased through Coast Air Brush. This product is the best I have seen in 35+ years of custom painting. Give it a try!!!! you won't be disappointed.

jwrass

[Art Anderson]

Hey guys im fed up and need some help everytime i try to tape a body to two tone it when i remove the tape it usually pulls the paint off of the colour im trying to protect ive tried primer ive wett sanded before hand with 2000 1500 grit paper tried with and without primer im using the model master gloss white acrylic ive tried the tamiya tape the yellow frogg tape the green painters tape ive washed the bodies in dawn dish soap and let dry overnight as an example i painted the firestone 78 ford 4x4 kit white sunday afternoon and let it sit till tonight wensday and when i was taping it i repostioned the tape and off the white came didnt even get a chance to spray the red colour what am i doin wrong ???? I see lots of you fellas with nice sharp lines so there must be a way but hell if I know any thoughts would be helpfull

Thanks Rudy

Rudy,

As I read and understand what you say here, it sounds as though your problem is one of paint adhesion--something is preventing the paint you are using from adhering (sticking) to the plastic, correct? If this is so, I would question the use of Dawn Dishwashing Detergent (or most any dishwashing liquids for that matter) as likely it has an ingredient intended to "clean right down to the shine". Often this means silicones, which are the biggest enemy to paint adhesion most of us might face.

Rather than dishwashing detergents, I have used with at least 99.9% success, for years now, any old sliver of DIAL soap, as it has no such ingredients, nor any so-called skin softeners which can also leave a film on a plastic model car body. I simply scrub my body shells with Dial and an old toothbrush, rinse thoroughly with clear tap water, "blot" (not wipe!) the larger droplets of water off the body shell inside and out with a plain paper towel, and then "blow dry" with the air hose from my Badger compressor. This has always ensured me that I don't have any surface contaminants to play hob with the paint sticking, and I've used this with just about every brand/type of paint sold for use on plastic models. This experience goes back at least 50 years, so it must be working.

Art

[jwrass]

Rudy, Art makes a great point with regard to dish washing soaps, they put perfumes in the soap and they are typically oil based. Oil on the surface equals poor adhesion and fish eyes. There is one dish washing soap that has been a standard on 1:1 Custom Paint for as long as I have been doing Custom Paint (35+ years) for wet sanding between coats (used as a lubricant, also prevents paper clogging) it is Ivory!!! but it has to be the Original Classic Scent. It's the original formula, it does have a scent but it is not oil based.

A typical paint job in my shop is on average $10,000 that is just paint. I can't afford to have any failures so I always use best practices. I would stay away from any dish soap other than the Original Ivory, We use Ivory every day and have never had a failure. We do however use a good pre cleaner before we lay down any color, We use a solvent based pre cleaner on metal items. We use Rapid Tac or the iso/water formula that I posted for plastic items, I.E. Fiberglass, Helmets, Carbon Fiber, anything that is not metal. Again this prep process negates the inherent static problems associated with anything of a plastic nature.

Good call Art!!!!

Rudy let us know how these procedures work. Again if you are in doubt do a practice panel before you commit to your Model. I don't know anyone who enjoys stripping paint.

jwrass