I believe that model building is more popular than we might think

[Harry P.]

Maybe something more along the lines of the type of cars popular with American kids today would work. Here in the US, I'm talking about.

I still think if done correctly, a model car/video game joint promotion would work. Maybe not a super-smash hit, but at least good enough to make a few bucks and maybe stir up some interest in model cars among people who might not have had any such interest previously.

I guess if I was head of Revell or AMT or whoever, I'd have my team looking into such a deal very seriously. Video games are hugely popular. A big chunk of youth culture revolves around them. So if you can't beat 'em... join 'em!

[W-409]

I'm now 17 and I've been building since I was six years old. I've been always interested in American Cars and my dad's Monogram '70 Chevelle SS got me inspirated to build my first model. A couple of my friends built models when we were a bit younger, but nowadays they have other interests and they're not building anymore. I've got a couple of friends who are the same age as me or a couple of years younger and they do build models all the time.

It is true that young people have other interests than building models nowadays. However, I must be strange somehow. I usually don't watch TV (I watch only the Drag Race program once a week), I don't use any of those Facebook-kind of things, I write only on these forums. I play video games very rarely and so on. Though I spend lots of time in the garage building our Race Car with my dad and of course the race weekends take a lot of time from building, too. Then there is school and friends etc etc, but anyway I have time to build models, probably because I don't spend all of my time in front of the TV or in the internet. The reason I build these is that this is a good way to have replicas of cars I'd like to own in 1:1 scale as I know I can't have them all... Model building also teaches how these machines work and it's all in all a very good past time.

But it's true that there are lots of model builders in Europe. Here in northern Europe where American Car Culture is popular, we build lots of model cars, pretty much the same kits than you guys do there in the USA. Of course there are many builders who build European or Japanese cars, too, but I can tell you that model building is more popular in here than some of you might think.

[Brett Barrow]

Maybe something more along the lines of the type of cars popular with American kids today would work. Here in the US, I'm talking about.

I still think if done correctly, a model car/video game joint promotion would work. Maybe not a super-smash hit, but at least good enough to make a few bucks and maybe stir up some interest in model cars among people who might not have had any such interest previously.

I guess if I was head of Revell or AMT or whoever, I'd have my team looking into such a deal very seriously. Video games are hugely popular. A big chunk of youth culture revolves around them. So if you can't beat 'em... join 'em!

I don't know why there haven't been Gran Tourismo or similar tie-in cars done. They could have a code were you buy the model and unlock the car inside the game. Tamiya and Dragon both ran a World of Tanks promo where you got in-game credit for buying kits with World of Tanks stickers on them. I had a bunch of people ask about it and even seek out kits with those stickers because they also played the game. Definitely something to think about.

A bigger question is what cars are American kids into? Because I can't tell and I sell these durn things I don't think they're that into cars in general, and the ones who are into cars are just as likely to be into classics or even old gassers and dragsters than they are anything current.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Brett Barrow

[Harry P.]

I don't know why there haven't been Gran Tourismo or similar tie-in cars done. They could have a code were you buy the model and unlock the car inside the game. Tamiya and Dragon both ran a World of Tanks promo where you got in-game credit for buying kits with World of Tanks stickers on them. I had a bunch of people ask about it and even seek out kits with those stickers because they also played the game. Definitely something to think about.

A bigger question is what cars are American kids into? Because I can't tell and sell these durn things I don't think they're that into cars in general, and the ones who are into cars are just as likely to be into classics or even old gassers and dragsters than they are anything current.

Well, I'm no video game expert, that's for sure, but isn't the whole "Grand Theft Auto" series pretty popular?

Now I'm not saying tie into that game... that's probably too big of a title to have any chance of working a deal... but there are a lot of car-centric video games out there. What about drift cars? Or street racing? Like I said, I'm not a video game guy, but I'm sure a deal could be done between people who know the subject matter and who want to make such a deal. I dunno... seems like a no-brainer to me, and I have to agree with you... why hasn't it been done?

[Brett Barrow]

Grand Theft Auto doesn't use real cars, they're like bizzaro-world cars that resemble (some more closely than others) real cars.

[High octane]

I hafta agree with what Harry said 'bout the number of model car builders today compared to the number of model car builders in the 60's. That was the "golden age" of model car building. Sure today we have tons of kits, tons of resin, tons of photo etched parts , decals, glues, tools, air-brushes, compressors, etc., but it doesn't have the "magic" that was there in the 60's. Back in the 60's I couldn't wait for the new kits to come out, and today I could care less if anymore kits ever came out as I've got enough to build. I'll bet that I have 'bout 60% of my kits still factory sealed.

Sure today we have websites like this one, facebook, International camaraderie, building tips, tutorials, etc. but NO magic. While I'm not a great builder, I do build in MY "comfort zone" and am happy with the results, but not any happier than when I finished a model in the 60's and entered it in the contest at the local hobby shops. Today a LOT of local hobby shops are looooong gone and never to return. Why, like Harry said about the number of model car builders today and internet and mail order buying. There's a lot of "overhead" in owning a local hobby shop today and it is a rough business as far as making ends meet.

[Art Anderson]

Maybe something more along the lines of the type of cars popular with American kids today would work. Here in the US, I'm talking about.

I still think if done correctly, a model car/video game joint promotion would work. Maybe not a super-smash hit, but at least good enough to make a few bucks and maybe stir up some interest in model cars among people who might not have had any such interest previously.

I guess if I was head of Revell or AMT or whoever, I'd have my team looking into such a deal very seriously. Video games are hugely popular. A big chunk of youth culture revolves around them. So if you can't beat 'em... join 'em!

I think very questionable, Harry. "Kids" don't necessarily go after, for example, TV or movie cars as model kits--I can recall quite well, from my young adult days working in a very large hobby shop here back in the years 1963-73, that model kits of TV or movie cars that were used as props on screen generally sold rather poorly, particularly in comparison to model kits of cars more readily seen in person (and those of all stripes!). What I do see in your post, and indeed threaded through this and the other model building forums I read and/or post in, is a "dream" of being able to somehow entice younger kids (say, the pre-16 age group) into taking up our hobby, which many of us have enjoyed, at least off and on since we were their ages. This is something that model kit manufacturers have tried numerous times over the years--"Make kits that kids will want to build, and watch them flock to the stores to buy them". Unfortunately, for whatever reasons, this is a ploy that has almost never really worked to any great extent.

That said, I can well imagine that where a particular computer game car subject is already available as a model kit, a licensed (there I go, that profanity called "licensing" again!) version/release might well generate some additional sales. However, were I in the Product Manager's position in any model company, it would take a ton of persuasion, more than likely from upstairs, to get me to set a development team working on such subjects on my own, or by my persuading upper management to approve such--given that in a position such as that, my income, indeed my very job would be on the line with every new kit project undertaken. Too many klinkers, or even one really BAD decision--well, I'd be wise to have my updated resume' ready 365 days a year.

Art

Edited July 12, 2014 by Art Anderson

[Speedfreak]

I sometimes think that this must be some kind of a 'second golden age' for model companies. I mean look at how many people are returning to the hobby that haven't built in decades, people between the ages of 45 and 60? They are the 'kids' that were building during the 60's and 70's. And while the numbers may not match, it is still a large influx of returning customers to the hobby. They post here on this forum as newcomers everyday. I don't see how this can not be affecting the bottom line for model car manufacturers. People alway's get stuck on the idea of today's 'youth' market, well guess what, there are other customers with bigger, fatter , wallets that are buying your products, right now, today. With that demographic I just don't see how, right now, today , it is doom and gloom for the hobby. (I would love to see some actual sales numbers for Revell, and , Round2). And, with some savy marketing, such as Harry and Brett are talking about to help bring in some more of the 'youth' market, it's boom time people!

[Harry P.]

I think very questionable, Harry. "Kids" don't necessarily go after, for example, TV or movie cars as model kits...

I'm talking about a joint venture between a kit maker and a video game maker... it has nothing to do with "TV cars."

Let's take GTA, just as a hypothetical example. (Again, that's probably shooting a little high for a kit manufacturer, but just as a hypothetical example)...

GTA has had numerous versions released, right? The game is centered around cars, right? The game is incredibly popular with kids and young people, right?

So what if there were a line of kits where your typical GTA fan could build an actual 3-D version of their favorite game car? Is it possible that a lot of GTA fans would think it's pretty cool if they could have a replica of their favorite game car sitting on their shelf? I have to think, yes.

What if there was a commercial at the beginning of the game that told people they can build their own version of their favorite GTA car (an ad for the kit manufacturer, essentially)? And what if those GTA kits had a sticker on the box that said there was a coupon inside that gets you a substantial savings on the next GTA release?

Yes, of course it would entail tooling up a new kit (or kits), and creating the commercial for the game... but is that not a win-win situation for both sides?

Of course, the trick is getting both a kit maker and a video game company to agree to the deal. And I assume the video game manufacturer would be a bit skeptical about what sort of "help" a tie-in to a model kit manufacturer would be...but seeing as how it's a win-win for both, and a very low-cost proposition for the video game maker, it seems to me that if you had a reasonably competent marketing team on both sides, a deal could be hammered out. Call me crazy, but if I owned a model kit manufacturing company, I'd be working this deal hard.

[Harry P.]

What I do see in your post, and indeed threaded through this and the other model building forums I read and/or post in, is a "dream" of being able to somehow entice younger kids (say, the pre-16 age group) into taking up our hobby, which many of us have enjoyed, at least off and on since we were their ages. This is something that model kit manufacturers have tried numerous times over the years--"Make kits that kids will want to build, and watch them flock to the stores to buy them". Unfortunately, for whatever reasons, this is a ploy that has almost never really worked to any great extent.

But have they really tried to market kits that today's kids would be interested in?

Or do they endlessly recycle old kits that kids wanted in the '60s and '70s and wonder why today's kids aren't interested?

Think about it.

[wrecker388]

So many people forget that building models extends outside of the US, the hobby is not going to be dying anytime soon.

Very true. When my older brother was in Japan a few years ago, he said that pretty much every store he went to sold models, and not just a little Walmart-like selection. Look at the kit manufacturers and detail of most Japanese produced kits and ask again why the hobby is so large over there.

And on a second note, younger builders (my age) can be easily introduced if they see a friend of theirs building a model. I managed to get 2 or 3 people interested, have friends that do build, and have talked to others that have built models in the past. Then again, most of those friends mentioned have interest in vehicles and mechanics.

Edited July 12, 2014 by wrecker388

[Brett Barrow]

But have they really tried to market kits that today's kids would be interested in?

Or do they endlessly recycle old kits that kids wanted in the '60s and '70s and wonder why today's kids aren't interested?

Think about it.

But what are kids today actually into (and will they be into it for more than 5 minutes)? Nobody has ever been able to give me an answer to that. Isn't it wiser to find the kids and young adults who are into the types of cars you already make? Believe me, there are plenty of kids and young adults out there who are into traditional hot rods, kustoms, super stocks, gassers, funny cars, show cars, VW bugs, etc... there are tons of Facebook groups devoted to these types of cars and they're not just full of greybeards. That's the group to go after, the ones who are already into the stuff you do. Just remind them "Hey guys, models still exist! We're still around!" I get that all the time from customers - "Models? I didn't know they still made these!".

[Harry P.]

I get that all the time from customers - "Models? I didn't know they still made these!".

Because they're all playing video games!

Put a model car commercial in the video game!!! Sell model kits that tie in to video games!!!!

Hello!??? Model Kit Company Marketing Department???

To steal a line from Pink Floyd... "Is there anybody in there????"

[Dragline]

I want to add something about the Asian comparison. Japanese in particular are a very detail oriented people. Their culture is such that it's not GEEKY to build models. A well built model is met with praise and encouragement.

The culture is far removed from what we have grown up with. This is a simplified comparison but accurate nontheless.

Bob

[Harry P.]

I want to add something about the Asian comparison. Japanese in particular are a very detail oriented people. Their culture is such that it's not GEEKY to build models. A well built model is met with praise and encouragement.

The culture is far removed from what we have grown up with. This is a simplified comparison but accurate nontheless.

Bob

But what culture is more heavily into electronics and gadgetry than the Japanese? Yet they also have a love of building models, and model building is very popular there.

They can do both. So could we... but our kit manufacturers heads are stuck in the 1960s.

[Tom Geiger]

Because they're all playing video games!

Harry, we're in the wrong hobby. A guy I know from work just had his 21 year old daughter signed onto a professional video game team! She will be playing for sponsors in big tournaments. The first one she will be in has a $50,000 cash prize, that she'd share with her team mates. Professional video game players can make six figures. Darned if I knew that!

And we pick a hobby where there is no money!

[Harry P.]

Harry, we're in the wrong hobby. A guy I know from work just had his 21 year old daughter signed onto a professional video game team! She will be playing for sponsors in big tournaments. The first one she will be in has a $50,000 cash prize, that she'd share with her team mates. Professional video game players can make six figures. Darned if I knew that!

And we pick a hobby where there is no money!

Well, in my case I picked this hobby back when I was a little kid and video games didn't exist... and just sort of stuck with it. If I was a kid today, I'd probably be more into video games than building models.

[DynoMight]

I'm talking about a joint venture between a kit maker and a video game maker... it has nothing to do with "TV cars."

Let's take GTA, just as a hypothetical example. (Again, that's probably shooting a little high for a kit manufacturer, but just as a hypothetical example)...

GTA has had numerous versions released, right? The game is centered around cars, right? The game is incredibly popular with kids and young people, right?

So what if there were a line of kits where your typical GTA fan could build an actual 3-D version of their favorite game car? Is it possible that a lot of GTA fans would think it's pretty cool if they could have a replica of their favorite game car sitting on their shelf? I have to think, yes.

What if there was a commercial at the beginning of the game that told people they can build their own version of their favorite GTA car (an ad for the kit manufacturer, essentially)? And what if those GTA kits had a sticker on the box that said there was a coupon inside that gets you a substantial savings on the next GTA release?

Yes, of course it would entail tooling up a new kit (or kits), and creating the commercial for the game... but is that not a win-win situation for both sides?

Of course, the trick is getting both a kit maker and a video game company to agree to the deal. And I assume the video game manufacturer would be a bit skeptical about what sort of "help" a tie-in to a model kit manufacturer would be...but seeing as how it's a win-win for both, and a very low-cost proposition for the video game maker, it seems to me that if you had a reasonably competent marketing team on both sides, a deal could be hammered out. Call me crazy, but if I owned a model kit manufacturing company, I'd be working this deal hard.

GTA is a game that I play sometimes, the title makes it seems it's more gauged towards cars, but not really... It's about.. other things... A better example would be Gran Turismo, a racing game which has real cars and real track etc, I agree Harry, a model/video game deal would be a great idea, but it is really hard to get into the hobby now, because 1.) It's really expensive (especially for a kid with parents who say, didn't do models, and see no reason or if their parents won't get them the supplies) 2.) LHS aren't Local Hobby Stores anymore, they're usually only in big cities, or they're big named companies like Wal-Mart and Hobby Lobby who don't always stock certain things you need to build a good kit and still make you want to continue building. 3.) If you don't know anyone who does it (friends, family, etc) you don't really have anyone to talk to about the hobby, unless you come to the forums. 4.) Did I mention it's really expensive?

I'm 14 and I only know of 3 other kids who build models and I'm pretty one of them doesn't build anymore. A lot of kids in my school don't see a point in spending hours painting and gluing a little car together, just to have it sit on a shelf; they don't see a reward in completing something that you've worked hard on and looks fairly good and you're proud of, some people like this hobby and have a knack for it, but then again some people don't. I've been building since I started school, and I hope this hobby will still be around when I finish working and retire.

[Harry P.]

You make some good points (1 through 4).

But I don't think cost is the killer when it comes to new people entering the hobby... after all, a game console and a bunch of games isn't exactly cheap, but look how popular that is with kids today. I think it's more of a generational thing. Like I posted earlier, the world has changed, and today's kids are living in a very different world than the kids who built models in the '60s lived in.

PS: Yeah, I know GTA is more about, um... "other things." Bad example on my part. GT is probably a better example of what I'm talking about.

[DynoMight]

But I don't think cost is the killer when it comes to new people entering the hobby... after all, a game console and a bunch of games isn't exactly cheap, but look how popular that is with kids today. I think it's more of a generational thing. Like I posted earlier, the world has changed, and today's kids are living in a very different world than the kids who built models in the '60s lived in.

For some people it is... Sometimes I'm standing in the aisle looking at a Amt/Revell kit (which is the same kit from the 90s, which is the same kit from the 80s, same kit from the 70s, and the same kit from the 60s, mind you) that's priced at $17 and has iffy molding and iffy details and then I look at a Tamiya/Aoshima/other-Japanese-kit-maker that has better molding and details but is priced at $30-$50 range on a good day. Most people would get the cheap one, which is the same kit from the 60s, probably the same molds too haha, and realize, oh man, this sucks, there's flash, moldlines and injector marks everywhere, I'm not getting this brand again. And that is the basic reason why the Japanese kit makers are doing better then the American companies, they keep their molds up to date, and although they usually don't have engine details, they crush the American companies in the interior, body, tires and chassis detail. The only reason the American companies are still around is because they are basically the only ones who really make the classic muscle cars, the hot rods and the customs, the Japanese companies don't, they make the new exotic cars and also the older exotic and tuner cars.

It seems like most kids who are into cars now-a-days around me are interested in the latest Lambo, Maserati, Benz, or Bugatti, which it seems the model manufacturers aren't making, because the licensing and copyright are very expensive and the companies don't know if they can make their money back if they do make the kit. But I'm pretty sure either Tamiya, Meng or some other Japanese model makers are working to kit one of these cars soon.

I'm pretty sure this hobby will be around for a long, long time, as long as there is people who want to build the kits and continue to. But it will never be as strong as it ever was in the 60s and 70s, ever. And that's because it's not new anymore and also the resources like paint and glue for kids like me aren't readily available anymore, also, the cars aren't cars anymore, there just silver or black blobs that are viewed as something you get in to go somewhere, not something you care about and fix by yourself or improve, modify or make it your own. They aren't interesting subjects anymore, like the 60s and 70s, back when you could improve your car and make it your own, when you could change your oil in your garage without having to have the special wrench to drain the oil, or when your car could be something you're proud of and talk about. The newer cars aren't interesting anymore.

Yes, it is partially video games but not all of it. Times change like you said, people found more interesting things to do then "play with plastic cars" or so they say I really want this hobby to be around for a long time, but I don't know, no one really knows. Parents who built as a kid need to pick up the exacto knife, the tube of glue, and the bottles of paint, go out and buy a kit and get back into the hobby and get their kids involved. Because they are the people who decide if this hobby should continue or just die off in the U.S. Because they are the ones who keep this hobby a float and alive. So, please, get your kids involved or at least attempt to. Because I know if my father or brother did not build, I wouldn't be building either, I would just be another kid wasting my brain matter away on video games and social media. Oh well, I know I'll at least attempt to continue building throughout my schooling and if I don't, I hope it'll be there when I come back.

---sorry for writing a novel haha

Edited July 13, 2014 by DynoMight

[Speedfreak]

So here's an interesting couple of questions; " Given the chance, do kids still like to build things with their hands? And, " Do kids like cars? If the answer to those questions are yes, (and I think they will be) then it's game on and it's just a matter of exposure. But somebody has to be willing to take the plunge.

The following state isn't going to make that happen:

" They can do both. So could we... but our kit manufacturers heads are stuck in the 1960s.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Speedfreak

[Art Anderson]

So here's an interesting couple of questions; " Given the chance, do kids still like to build things with their hands? And, " Do kids like cars? If the answer to those questions are yes, (and I think they will be) then it's game on and it's just a matter of exposure. But somebody has to be willing to take the plunge.

The following state isn't going to make that happen:

" They can do both. So could we... but our kit manufacturers heads are stuck in the 1960s.

Not all true, sorry

[DynoMight]

So here's an interesting couple of questions; " Given the chance, do kids still like to build things with their hands? And, " Do kids like cars? If the answer to those questions are yes, (and I think they will be) then it's game on and it's just a matter of exposure. But somebody has to be willing to take the plunge.

Exactly, kids like building things (Legos, anyone) and they like cars (HotWheels, anyone) It's just someone has to show these kids that model building is fun and can be really, really rewarding. As I'm typing I'm looking at my '64 Thunderbolt which I just completed and I think it's one of my best kits ever, and when I finished that kit I felt like I did something good, plus my family (at least my parents and brother) told me that this kit was one on my best, and I really liked that haha.. The only way this hobby will survive for the next, say 50 years is if we, the model builders who are already into the hobby introduce my generation to these models, that is the only way this will ever survive. And I hope we realize this soon, the sooner the better...

[Rob Hall]

So here's an interesting couple of questions; " Given the chance, do kids still like to build things with their hands? And, " Do kids like cars? If the answer to those questions are yes, (and I think they will be) then it's game on and it's just a matter of exposure. But somebody has to be willing to take the plunge.

The following state isn't going to make that happen:

" They can do both. So could we... but our kit manufacturers heads are stuck in the 1960s.

And others have said that the kids like the older subjects and need to be exposed to them, but I can't see that being a viable business model--- maybe a small subset of young people are into the past, but I can't see young people en masse being interested in model subjects (or 1:1 cars) from their grandparents era.

I know there are far fewer adult and child 'car guys' today (interest in cars in general pretty much goes hand in hand w/ interest in model cars) than when I was a kid in the '80s, but I would think the majority of younger people that are into cars would be more interested in modern cars and modern subjects rather than obscure subjects from the distant past.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Rob Hall

[mikemodeler]

Not sure where it will lead, but my wife recently taught a summer camp class at the YMCA that was titled "Build It" and over the course of 5 days these 3rd-5th graders built several things, including a Revell Space Shuttle and '34 Ford street rod. She said they were having fun with the models and kids in other classes looked on with envy. The inspiration for the class came to her from going to a couple of shows with me and seeing some younger kids displaying models and her understanding that kids need to do more than rely on electronic entertainment devices.

I think there might be a kid or two from those classes that continues on to build models. My wife was certain to mention the weekly ad from Hobby Lobby where they could save 40% and also the local Hobbytown USA where the owner said he would give them a discount if they mentioned "YMCA" but only on models, not R/C!

I don't think there is any magic formula to get today's kids into the hobby; they're either into cars or they aren't. I had friends who didn't really have the patience to build back in the '70s and weren't really car guys.