What do model builders overlook that could improve their models?

[southpier]

I remember the whole schtick behind Floquil model railroad paints was their finer than finely ground pigments to create scale color. personal view is that highly polished paint looks odd as does plastic chrome plated parts. a synthetic model with the introduction of real materials (wood bed on a pickup or a pebble stone wall) often makes the real materials look out of place.

and if anyone is using popsicle sticks in their diorama, please reshape the round end ... even if it's only to a different radius.

[Tom Geiger]

and if anyone is using popsicle sticks in their diorama, please reshape the round end ... even if it's only to a different radius.

LOL Popsicle sticks are sooo way outta scale for anything. They are pretty much too hard and too finished a wood to really work with. Hobby woods are so cheap that it's really worthwhile to work with bass wood. I just laugh when there's a diorama where the fence is popsicle sticks, using that round edge at the top of the fence. It just screams toy!

[Deano]

LOL Popsicle sticks are sooo way outta scale for anything. They are pretty much too hard and too finished a wood to really work with. Hobby woods are so cheap that it's really worthwhile to work with bass wood. I just laugh when there's a diorama where the fence is popsicle sticks, using that round edge at the top of the fence. It just screams toy!

Well, they're about the right thickness for deck planking. Of course they're too wide and they've got the rounded ends. How many folks do you know who are making 1/25 scale decks? Me? I use them for mixing resin.

[Tom Geiger]

How many folks do you know who are making 1/25 scale decks?

I dunno... does this one count? This is my 1/25 scale playhouse that I built out of basswood. I wanted to get some experience working with wood and working in scale, so I tackled this project.

It was in either Popular Science or Popular Mechanics Magazine, and they included the complete set of plans and a bill of materials...

I followed these plans exactly, but used my trusty 1/25 scale ruler for the measuring. It went together very well.

It sits in my display case along with my model cars and trucks. It fits right in.

[Harry P.]

Nice!

[bobthehobbyguy]

Nice job. Great idea for picking a project.

[clovis]

Overall, this has been a great thread.

As I mentioned earlier, I think that Harry nailed it when he said that many of us less experienced builders aren't even aware that some of this detailing exists.

Heck, I was proud during the last build to have actually engineered around a significant problem on a vintage kit.

At the same time, I have learned tons of stuff on this forum, as well as YouTube. I will say, though, sometimes it is a little hard to find stuff that actually shows how to do something. I am at the point of being better than the kid building a glue bomb, but finding very precise step-by-step instructions can be a little elusive.

Generally speaking, there are tons of YouTube vids that show advanced steps, and there are some builders who should be embarrassed to show the simplicity of their work, but I find it hard to find those precise step-by-step instructions that would enable me to step up my work. Not sure that makes sense, but it is hard to find great instructional stuff sometimes.

[sjordan2]

Overall, this has been a great thread.

As I mentioned earlier, I think that Harry nailed it when he said that many of us less experienced builders aren't even aware that some of this detailing exists.

Heck, I was proud during the last build to have actually engineered around a significant problem on a vintage kit.

At the same time, I have learned tons of stuff on this forum, as well as YouTube. I will say, though, sometimes it is a little hard to find stuff that actually shows how to do something. I am at the point of being better than the kid building a glue bomb, but finding very precise step-by-step instructions can be a little elusive.

Generally speaking, there are tons of YouTube vids that show advanced steps, and there are some builders who should be embarrassed to show the simplicity of their work, but I find it hard to find those precise step-by-step instructions that would enable me to step up my work. Not sure that makes sense, but it is hard to find great instructional stuff sometimes.

This is one of the best ones online.

http://www.italianhorses.net/Tutorials/tutorials.htm

Also, if you follow his builds of individual models, you'll find those just as informative (click on the individual links below the fold).

http://www.italianhorses.net/

[clovis]

Thank you, Skip.

Do you know of any others?

[jbwelda]

pretty much any model can look a lot better with some lowering. almost universally, right out of the box, models sit unrealistically high, at least to my eyes/brain (because that's what actually interprets what you "see"). unless its an off road vehicle or otherwise normally lifted vehicle (like a nostalgia gasser say), anything will look better 3 - 6 scale inches closer to the ground.

jb

[Ace-Garageguy]

... anything will look better 3 - 6 scale inches closer to the ground.

Goes for real cars too.

[Harry P.]

pretty much any model can look a lot better with some lowering. almost universally, right out of the box, models sit unrealistically high,...

That's painting with a pretty broad brush, isn't it? Or even a roller!

If you're building a model kit that has the correct scale ground clearance, lowering it because it "looks better" that way to you is a subjective thing, not a problem with the kit's accuracy. I mean, that's like saying pretty much any model looks better painted metalflake red. Or any model looks better with big aftermarket wheels.

All subjective, nothing to do with the kit's basic accuracy... assuming it is accurate.

[Tom Geiger]

Overall, this has been a great thread.

As I mentioned earlier, I think that Harry nailed it when he said that many of us less experienced builders aren't even aware that some of this detailing exists.

Heck, I was proud during the last build to have actually engineered around a significant problem on a vintage kit.

At the same time, I have learned tons of stuff on this forum, as well as YouTube. I will say, though, sometimes it is a little hard to find stuff that actually shows how to do something. I am at the point of being better than the kid building a glue bomb, but finding very precise step-by-step instructions can be a little elusive.

Generally speaking, there are tons of YouTube vids that show advanced steps, and there are some builders who should be embarrassed to show the simplicity of their work, but I find it hard to find those precise step-by-step instructions that would enable me to step up my work. Not sure that makes sense, but it is hard to find great instructional stuff sometimes.

that's the beauty of this interactive forum. You can ask! Most folks who show their work, especially the works in progress, are very happy to explain exactly how they did that step or created that detail. While there are very talented folks who do unbelievable things, a lot of the details that most of us do are pretty simple, just things you didn't think of on your own.

[John Goschke]

Lastly, we most often look at models from above. Where we to do this in real life, it would be like being on a ladder or cherry picker. In real life we most often see vehicle from about chest height or lower. Again a change of perception. For this reason one of the best model companies in the world, Tamiya, will tell you that they change the dimensions of their bodies to accommodate this distortion.

Really!? How do they calculate the percentage of distortion? What dimensions are changed or adjusted and how?

When I look at a model to judge how much it captures the character the original I look at it from eye level or slightly above or below. Though I've always done this, some truly great modelers have confirmed that that's the way to look at a model-from angles one would be likely to view the real thing. If Tamiya is "forcing the prespective" of their kits to compensate for the model club meeting table "helicopter view" how does that effect the appearance of the model when it's viewed from a more realistic angle?

[Tom Geiger]

When I look at a model to judge how much it captures the character the original I look at it from eye level or slightly above or below. Though I've always done this, some truly great modelers have confirmed that that's the way to look at a model-from angles one would be likely to view the real thing. If Tamiya is "forcing the prespective" of their kits to compensate for the model club meeting table "helicopter view" how does that effect the appearance of the model when it's viewed from a more realistic angle?

When I photograph models I get down at table height. I often will literally sit my camera down on the table to get that right perspective. You want to avoid the 4 story view like in the above photo. You don't see this in real life. In fact, the paint was faded on the roof of my Dodge Caravan high top a long time before I actually saw it. I just don't see the top of the van from my normal viewing position!

Every so often we get a link to an album some guy took at a show from that 4 story view position. He never got down to capture the model, and has posted 100 photos of roof tops! And that's one of the reasons we raise the tables at NNL East. To ease people's backs from trying to view the models down on low tables, but also so people can get decent photos!

[sjordan2]

Thank you, Skip.

Do you know of any others?

You can find a multitude of information in the "Modeling How-Tos" section of this forum under Tips, Tricks and Tutorials. If you don't find what you're looking for there, you can always use the Question & Answer topic in the same section. Google, of course is useful.

[Pete J.]

Really!? How do they calculate the percentage of distortion? What dimensions are changed or adjusted and how?

When I look at a model to judge how much it captures the character the original I look at it from eye level or slightly above or below. Though I've always done this, some truly great modelers have confirmed that that's the way to look at a model-from angles one would be likely to view the real thing. If Tamiya is "forcing the prespective" of their kits to compensate for the model club meeting table "helicopter view" how does that effect the appearance of the model when it's viewed from a more realistic angle?

Here are two pages from S. Tamiya's book Master Modeler. This is his description of the issues he had when he first started making auto kits. I think you will find it interesting and informative.

[Pete J.]

When I photograph models I get down at table height. I often will literally sit my camera down on the table to get that right perspective. You want to avoid the 4 story view like in the above photo. You don't see this in real life. In fact, the paint was faded on the roof of my Dodge Caravan high top a long time before I actually saw it. I just don't see the top of the van from my normal viewing position!

Every so often we get a link to an album some guy took at a show from that 4 story view position. He never got down to capture the model, and has posted 100 photos of roof tops! And that's one of the reasons we raise the tables at NNL East. To ease people's backs from trying to view the models down on low tables, but also so people can get decent photos!

I agree 100%. Of all the photos of my models that I have taken, this is probably my favorite. It was actually shot from about three feet away with a telephoto lens. I like bringing the perspective down to a "human level".

[johnbuzzed]

On older cars: the door lock knob thing, that's located on the top surface if the interior door panel. Small thing, but it adds something. And, antennas. On older cars, a solid or telescopic stick -and I don't mean the way-out-of-scale chrome pieces that are included in many kits. On newer cars- well, they're hard to describe, but there they are, just above the rear window; some looking rather like little dorsal fins.

[jbwelda]

a telephoto lens, will compress space which can make for a more pleasing close up of something like a model by keeping parallel lines from distorting (bowing) like most normal or wide angle lens will do, particularly at close range as in macro tabletop photography, and will also allow for more depth of field assuming the aperture can be stopped down enough (usually not a problem with telephoto lenses if you are using a tripod to make up for the longer exposure time necessary). same as in portrait photography, a 100mm lens will result in a much more pleasing look than will a 50mm or shorter lens which tend to distort features and particularly parallel lines and perspective.

and yep bill I am with you: a real car will look better lower too. problem is, there are these real world obstacles like speed bumps, pot holes and other road surface irregularities that will prevent lowering a real car to look its best...a problem we don't normally have with models.

jb

[John Goschke]

Here are two pages from S. Tamiya's book Master Modeler. This is his description of the issues he had when he first started making auto kits. I think you will find it interesting and informative.

I think what he's saying is not as simple as designing the model to have it look right when viewed from above. Each case is different. That is where the art comes in, adjusting the contours, forms, proportions and stance, not only by the engineer's ruler but with a sculptor's "eye," to decide if the model captures the character of the original.

[southpier]

that book looks like an interesting read.

next car show, bring a black piece of cardboard with a 2" square hole cut in it. look through the hole and notice how much detail you can see without your peripheral vision competing.

[Pete J.]

I think what he's saying is not as simple as designing the model to have it look right when viewed from above. Each case is different. That is where the art comes in, adjusting the contours, forms, proportions and stance, not only by the engineer's ruler but with a sculptor's "eye," to decide if the model captures the character of the original.

That is were I was going with my earlier post about "scale is a funny thing". It is a great place to start, but it is only a starting point. I have always contended that what we do is as much art as science. In every way we are trying to deceive the eye into believing it is seeing the real thing when it is not. Little things make a huge difference. Shading, texturing, size, colors all play into this hobby. The person who does it best is the one with an eye for these and a talent for coming up with solutions that please the eye not necessarily the ruler.

[meaneyme]

Panel lines, panel lines, panel lines. Great pinned article here to learn how to do this. I am tired of seeing beautiful paint jobs on models with this issue omitted.

[Pete J.]

Panel lines, panel lines, panel lines. Great pinned article here to learn how to do this. I am tired of seeing beautiful paint jobs on models with this issue omitted.

On the other side of this is panel lines that are overdone. Hard black lines look every bit as bad as no shading. We could all learn from the aircraft guys about preshading and rescribing. They seem to spend a lot more time on this than most car guys, myself included.