Decades of Decal "What The"s

[samdiego]

In my experience, one huge variable and question mark in this hobby has been the decal sheet. While I've an intimate understanding of printing and digital design, I'll admit some ignorance of the waterslide process and how the end product could vary so greatly, not only from manufacturer to manufacturer, but from kit to kit as well. I'll remember the low point as Revell's sheet from the Tom McEwen '57 Chevy Funny Car in the mid 80s. They were huge, they refused to lay flat and were resistant to any known setting solution available. So vital to the finished piece but so worthless.

Revell's Mustang GT sheet from '07 or so was awesome. They went down perfectly and fit like a mitten. Even the tiny lettering for the rear badge hit each engraved spot and Micro Set worked just right. But the same company's instrument decals for the new '49 Merc didn't fit at all and wouldn't soften no matter what solution I used. What is the material difference. Was there a different supplier? Why do Cartograph products melt into a paintlike finish and others resist? Most recently I bit for the '6 Nova because of the Grumpy Jenkins sheet. Unfortunately the printer didn't add an underprint of white for the yellow lettering. Again so vital but so useless. Another arena where the aftermarket has picked up what the majors have dropped.

And license plates. Have you ever noticed the variety of of sizes and ratios? I don't get it. The majority of US tags have been mostly 6 x 12 in the last 50 years. Why is this so hard for decal makers to capture?

Okay, I'm done

Edited August 29, 2014 by samdiego

[Jantrix]

Yeah! What he said!

[johnbuzzed]

Yeah! What he said!

I concur, in spades. Especially about the license plates.

[Tom Geiger]

I'd say the issue with decals through the ages is the same issue we've had with kits... quality control! My most recent mess was with Revell decals from the '38 Ford Pickup... the Checkers Market ones. I had put them aside to use on a taxi someday. So I used them on my Dodge Caravan taxi.. and man what a mess! The went down awful, the long taxi checker board stripes just kept curling back up and losing the glue in the process. Once I finally got them all on, I tried to clear coat the entire body and they all shrunk up and made a big mess!

I posted that on a board and someone told me the warning about using decal solutions and clear coat over those specific decals (and I suspect other Revell decals of that era) were on the instruction sheet! Well that did me a heck of a lot of good, since I had separated the decals from the kit. The warning would have been much better maybe on the back of the sheet! No doubt Revell tried a supplier and found out there were issues way too late.

The good news is that today we aren't stuck using just kit decals. We all make a bunch of our decals on our own ink jet printers. Yes, you have to work with the absence of white and the metallic colors, and make sure you apply them over light colors. You can also have someone print your design on an Alps printer for a fee.

As far as license plates, I dunno! I've never used kit decal plates. Plates are much better on the card stock, glued down. I print most if not all mine on the Acme site, reduce them down to scale and glue them where needed. Great every time!

And for the 49 Merc gauges.. we have the ability to scan, reduce them slightly and print them to the right size. And they probably are better printed on white paper and glued into place.

[935k3]

Speaking of Cartograf, who ever though Italians would make the best decals but they do. They do make them for allot of companies. Two things that help with bad decals are 1; to get them to conform try a hot damp cloth pressed over them instead of solvents. 2: for decals that do not stick try putting Futer under them.

Edited August 29, 2014 by 935k3

[samdiego]

I forgot the inspiration for this post, The Revell '49 Merc Woody. The decals themselves are more susceptible to Setting Solution but don't try using the "Mercury" lettering for the hood in one piece, it's not even close to being spaced right. You'll need to apply them one at a time. The wood is printed nicely but the panels don't follow the shapes of their locations exactly and are a little small. Do they test these and just go "Oh well" or what?

To this layman, the decal sheet would seem to be the least expensive way to add a lot of punch to a kit, new or old. I really like what Revell and some others have come up with in the last few years design-wise. The sheets for the Woodys and the '48 coupe were outstanding.

One last thing, I still miss Brian Bordon, who drew some of the most awesome model car graphics ever for Revell in the 90s

Edited August 29, 2014 by samdiego

[Zarana-X]

I'd be interested in making my own decals if I knew what I was doing and had a printer.

From the kit decals I'd 2nd the irregular scale of license plates. Older AMT decals are ridiculously thick and won't conform to any curvature.

[Ramfins59]

As a side note regarding the license plates, I'll usually just carefully trim the license plate decals from the carrier sheet leaving them on the backing. Then I'll just glue them in place using either white glue or a drop of CA glue. No need to use them as decals. I pretty much do the same thing with gauge decals but after they're glued down I cover them with clear epoxy for lenses. I rarely use decal graphics on any of my models.

[Tom Geiger]

I forgot the inspiration for this post, The Revell '49 Merc Woody.

Now that you mention it... the thing that puzzled me was all those neat travel and surf decals for the windows are printed POSITIVE and put on the outside of the glass, per the kit. Shouldn't they have been printed BACKWARDS so you could put them on the inside of the glass like the real ones?

No issue with me, I used mine on the outside metal of my old Dodge van camper..

There are a few others mixed in there too... they did take Testors Dullcote fine.

[Mark]

If the decals were printed in reverse, they wouldn't look as good from the back side. Soak a decal you don't intend to use, and look at it from the back side...doesn't look too good.

You can dip the decal, then while it is wet transfer the glue to the front side and then apply it on the inside of the glass. But it probably won't look right due to the non-scale thickness of the clear parts. If you replace the kit parts with thin clear styrene, it might look right though.

[Scale-Master]

There are multiple issues in your questions/comments.

One issue is the art vs. the printing. Why some decals fit better or worse vs. why solvents do or dont work with them.

Another issue is the differences from printer (printhouse) to printer. Cartograph is the best printer I have worked with regarding quality.

The aforementioned Revell/Monogram decals that refused to comply with decal solvents were printed with a U.V. dried ink and they were incompatible with solvents. They were used quite a bit in the Nascar kits of the 90s as well.

Regarding license plates, often even though plates are a standardized 12 X 6 inches, some kits have plates scaled to fit the model and look right and they may be off.

As far as decals being printed in reverse for use inside windows, since white is the first color to go down on the sheet, a second printing of white would be needed at the end of the printing process to facilitate that. Also other colors might need to be printed out of order; usually it is lightest to darkest. While it could be done, it is cost prohibitive for most projects. I know of only one instance where white was printed twice (as the first and last color) on the same sheet, the R/M 78 Pace Vette reissued in 1996.

[Tom Geiger]

I did reverse decals on the Chevette project. I made the Ramapo College decal on the rear window. I reversed the logo by scaling it in the negative -100,-100 in Word. That flipped it around.

The ying and yang decal on the side window came out of a Revell kit. I soaked it in water until the glue was all gone, then set it out to dry. I used canopy cement to glue it face down to the inside of the glass. Worked out well, if only I had cut it close to get rid of that clear halo around it!

[Watertown]

Can't speak to the general decal issue posted, however, as for license plates, I've been creating my own for years by going to http://www.acme.com/licensemaker/. I have printed them on decal paper, however, I've discovered printing them on photo-grade paper and then simply trimming them yields an appropriate scale thickness that I can apply a PE license plate frame to and attach to the vehicle directly. The aforementioned site provides for all 50 states and for different periods.

[ChrisBcritter]

Don't forget licenseplates.tv - their fonts are usually much closer to the real thing than Acme. Drawback is they no longer do California, Florida or Texas (although if you use an older version of the site on archive.org you can at least pull up and copy the blank templates).

[dieseldawg142]

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Edited May 11, 2018 by dieseldawg142

[Art Anderson]

Unfortunately, model companies often see decals as an expense, thus cheap decals happen far too often!

Art

[samdiego]

But, in the cost of a kit, I would think that decals would be relatively cheap. And why do companies pass things that they know aren't right? I've dealt with tolerances tighter than my decals need to be, it's not that hard to do especially with a computer generated piece. The '49 Woody hood emblem decal was off by an 1/8in in width at least. C'mon , nobody noticed that? Mobius seemed truly surprised when I complained about the yellow stuff vanishing on the first Hudson Hornet sheet, especially the iconic air cleaner decals, which were a huge selling point for me with this kit. They were fairly quick to correct the lack of white underprint and sent replacements that were perfect. Round Two already had an excuse in place for a similar issue with the Grumpy sheet and had no plans for correction.

The scale of the license plate thing isn't so bothersome as just getting the ratio correct, 1:2.

Call me, I'll set up the next sheet for you. I've spent 30 years dealing with computer generated graphics.

[Fabrux]

The biggest problem I have with all these custom license plate sites is that they don't have my province's current plate design. C'mon, it changed five years ago!

[Harry P.]

The biggest problem I have with all these custom license plate sites is that they don't have my province's current plate design. C'mon, it changed five years ago!

Why not do a search and just print out to scale? If you have a graphics program you can even erase the current plate and put in any letters or numbers you want.

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=new+brunswick+license+plate&gbv=2&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ei=pfYFVLuNNIKQgwSKkIDYCg&ved=0CBQQsAQ

[Fabrux]

That is what I've been doing, although it is hard to find the font my province uses on the plates. I've been using the German EU plate font, looks pretty good. I even successfully predicted the next letter in the passenger car sequence a year before they switched over.

[Tom Geiger]

The biggest problem I have with all these custom license plate sites is that they don't have my province's current plate design. C'mon, it changed five years ago!

If you live there, you should be surrounded by the current plate. Just take some digital photos, straight on shots. Use a photo etch license plate frame for scaling, and then scale that photo down until it fits. I do this all the time, I steal license plate photos from eBay for that purpose.

Here's a plate that's going on an upcoming build of mine. US Forces in Germany 1970s version. Took the photo from eBay.

[Fabrux]

I'm not so much concerned about making the plates; that's easy enough to do. My complaint was more towards the sites not being updated...