Having some real trouble with paint.

[TheRX7Project]

I've been trying to get back into building, (especially since 1:1 is out of season at the moment) but I am having some real trouble getting anywhere because paint is just not cooperating.

I'm trying to lay some paint down on the chassis and engine bay of my '66 Mustang, but no matter what I do, it's "wrinkling" and not adhering to the plastic (peels right off with a little help from a knife or sandpaper). I've tried 2 different brands of paint, the parts were properly prepped (washed and lightly sanded). I'm just trying to paint them semi-gloss black so I first tried Rustoleum black and that wrinkled, so I sanded them clean and re-shot with Krylon Fusion and it did the same thing. It's not really cold where I'm painting so that's not the problem, the paint is kept at room temp so it's not that.

Any ideas what could be causing my adhesion problem?

[martinfan5]

Try using hobby paints , Krylon Fusion paint is not made for plastic that is used for model kits, its made for the type of plastic used in outdoor stuff , if you dont want to use hobby paints, maybe try using a primer first.

[Guest]

Did you primer your parts?

[StevenGuthmiller]

That's what I'm thinking. Primer! Steve

[Ace-Garageguy]

"Wrinkling" of enamels is very often caused by shooting a second coat of paint outside of the recoat-window. Most enamels will say on the label something to the effect of: "apply additional coats within one hour or after 72 hours"...or something like that. Re-coating outside of those times, you'll often get the subsequent coat attacking the first coat, and it all wrinkles up as if you'd put paint stripper on it.

Variations in temperature and humidity can play merry hell with the recoat window too.

How long are you waiting before applying your second coat? And what do the directions on the can say?

The most common problem styrene modelers have with Fusion is crazing, as it's a "hot" paint, and will actually attack some un-primered plastic, causing a very fine wrinkled appearance. The wrinkling becomes etched into the surface of the plastic, and pretty well ruins the model surface.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[TheRX7Project]

That's the odd part- it was the first coat that wrinkled.

No I did not prime the parts. I've never had to when shooting enamels. Also, it's not the whole part that wrinkled- it was only a few spots here and there, so I don't think it's the paint itself or lack of primer. I've used these paints before with success which is why I am confused as to why it is happening now.

I do have a can of testors flat black laying around here somewhere, I'll give that a shot and see if that solves it.

By the way this Krylon Fusion goes on quite thin I've found, if I can figure out how to stop it from wrinkling (maybe the part got tainted somehow?) I'll probably use it again in the future.

On a side note, what is a good way for me to strip all the paint off so I can start over? I know the Easy-Off method, just wondering if there is anything better.

Thanks

Edited January 18, 2015 by TheRX7Project

[Draggon]

Testors flat black sticks to anything!

[StevenGuthmiller]

I gave up on the "oven cleaner" method in favor of "Super Clean". The purple stuff you can pick up at almost any auto parts store. Get a gallon & put enough in a plastic container to submerge your parts. In almost all cases, it will remove all traces of paint any where from a couple of hours, to a few days. You can use it over & over again & when you're ready to get rid of it, it's completely biodegradable. I guess I'm not sure about Rustoleum, but Krylon is a pretty hot paint. I've seen it "craze" plastic without primer. All it takes sometimes is a finger print to give you adhesion problems. Steve

[Belugawrx]

On a side note, what is a good way for me to strip all the paint off so I can start over? I know the Easy-Off method, just wondering if there is anything better.

Thanks

I always use Dot 3 brake fluid...strips within a couple of hours, can be reused,...

and with any strip, Clean well after, with dish soap

[TheRX7Project]

Regarding Super Clean, will it soften or craze the plastic at all? What about brake fluid? I know brake fluid is nasty stuff. I tried using thinner once when I was younger... it turned my parts to mush!

Again, thanks for the input guys.

Edited January 22, 2015 by TheRX7Project

[Erik Smith]

I've never had Super Clean degrade plastic. It's a degreaser and I am not aware of any issues.

The Fusion and other hardware store type paints are a mix of ingredients. Some say enamel, but they are not the slow drying enamels we in the hobby world recognize. You can still find some, but most are fast drying enamels, so I think they put hotter chemicals in them to speed the process a bit. Take a look at dry times to get an idea about how "hot" an enamel is - if it says dry to the touch in 15 minutes, it's going to be hotter. For old school enamels, find one that has an extended dry time - I think one Rustoleum enamel I found had a like a 2 or 3 hour dry to handle time, so it acted very similar to old Testors enamel.

I tend to avoid enamels except for undercoating Alclad II. They take too long to dry (even though I'm not in a hurry!). I don't like the Testor's enamels at all - they are too expensive, spray like crud out of the can, bubble, etc... Try some lacquer paints and you will see the difference.

[StevenGuthmiller]

I've soaked styrene parts for over a month in Super Clean with absolutely no issues. The only problem with brake fluid is disposal when you're done with it. I've never had much luck with it anyway. Steve

[TheRX7Project]

Erik-

I use lacquers exclusively on exterior/body color parts ever since I discovered how great they were for that. The thing I like about the Krylon Fusion paint (for chassis/interior/etc) is that it has the absolute perfect sheen. It's just glossy enough (but not gloss) for the chassis or to simulate vinyl on seats. It also goes on super thin.

I'm sure there are other, more hobby-friendly paints that can do the same, but I've yet to find them. Short of picking up an airbrush and a small compressor (which, I don't feel I build enough to justify) I can't find anything that does it "just right" the way Fusion does.

I can only assume there is some sort of a fluke here that made the paint wrinkle, as I painted the chassis and suspension parts with no problem. The only problems I had were on the engine bay and surrounding area, and on the radiator support (separate piece).

I'm going to the store to pick up some of that Super Clean in a little bit. I'm going to strip, wash, and respray the parts to see what comes of it. If the parts do it again I know I need to find a different paint.

[chunkypeanutbutter]

If you're going to WalMart, get Purple Power instead. Cheaper, works as good.

[Lunajammer]

This was lacquer from a can on straight plastic, no primer. Too hot, same problem. The dark blue in the middle is a BMF mask, which did not react to the lacquer like the plastic does. Reshot with primer, problem solved.

Not sure if I'm remembering correctly, but I think this happened when I shot it with clearcoat. Doesn't really matter, because the cause was the same, incorrect adhesion without the primer.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Lunajammer

[Erik Smith]

I use the Fusion, too - flat black over Duplicolor primer. It's always worked well - and the Fusion cans spray nice and have a nice nozzle. The only Krylon paints I had issues with were gloss.

If you don't mind paying for Tamiya paints, their semi gloss black is perfect sheen for interiors and their AS line has some oddball (for cars anyhow) colors and also leave a nice, semi gloss finish.

[TheRX7Project]

I don't mind spending the extra coin for the exterior color. I figure that's what most people see. My current project will be Model Master Bright Aqua Pearl over Tamiya primer.

FWIW I painted the interior Fusion Dover White satin, with no primer, and it hasn't crazed or wrinkled or anything. I really think there might have been something on the plastic.