1966 olds master cylinder question

[greymack]

Not sure if this question goes here but on a 66 oldsmobile 442 which master cylinder was used ? I was doing some research for a project I'm building and the AMT kit just has a standard mastercyl. and when I google search the topic it shows pictures of cars with mastercyl. and brake booster. So would of the brake booster been a aftermarket update or did the 442 come with them from factory as part of the W 30 package ?

[StevenGuthmiller]

Not sure what came with what package for the 442, but back in those days you could order any options you wanted on a car. I once owned a '58 Cadillac that came with standard power seats, "Autotronic Eye" & "Wonder Bar" radio, but a heater was an option. Steve

[Can-Con]

Depends if the car had power brakes or not. , , no power brakes, no booster.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I had a '66 442 for a short time during high school. It absolutely positively had factory vacuum-assisted (power) drum brakes. I didn't buy the car new, so I don't know if they were standard as part of the package, but they WERE on mine.

[Snake45]

I don't think I have a '66 Olds showroom brochure (I DO have '67) but I doubt that power brakes were standard at that time. PS and PB were still extra-cost options on most cars back then. Disk brakes were pretty rare too. They were available on Corvette in '66 but I think they didn't show up on most other Chevies and GM products until '67, and then only on the front.

[1972coronet]

So long as the master cylinder is the "Dixiecup" style (i.e. , the single-pot cylinder) , it's right att home on 1966 & earlier vehicles (except for Rambler / AMC ; those had "dual circuit" brakes going back to at least 1963) .

The most-recognised master cylinder was mandated for the 1967 model year .

Ever see a disc brake master cylinder for :

- 1965-1966 Dart / Valiant / Barracuda

- 1966 Satellite / Coronet

- 1966 Imperial

????

Let me see if I can dig up a slightly off-subject link ...

EDIT / ADDENDUM : Check out how the 1965-1966 disc brake m/c looks for Dodge / Plymouth / Chrysler !

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/TSBs/1966/2-22-66_letter_page3.jpg

Edited February 6, 2015 by 1972coronet

[greymack]

Thanks for the info guys. If most of you don't know by now I'm building a 66 olds for the chevy cheeseburger xtreme build on youtube community . So I'm just trying to get this model all era period correct . I'll have some pictures on the forum soon.

[Rodent]

I am not familiar with the '66 W-30 cars, but it is possible that power brakes weren't even available. If a cam has a lot of overlap, the engine doesn't produce enough vacuum for power brakes to work like they are supposed to. IIRC, the 1970 W-30 4-speed cars had manual brakes for that very reason.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I am not familiar with the '66 W-30 cars, but it is possible that power brakes weren't even available. If a cam has a lot of overlap, the engine doesn't produce enough vacuum for power brakes to work like they are supposed to. IIRC, the 1970 W-30 4-speed cars had manual brakes for that very reason.

Really kinda unlikely GM would put out a factory assembled vehicle with a cam so wild it wouldn't pull enough vacuum for power brakes. The Cutlass platform got available front discs in '67, and the disc-brake cars are essentially un-stoppable without power boost.

For 1966 the 442 was option package L-78. It included a special hood, grille, emblems, stripes, redline tires, heavy duty rad, driveshaft and engine mounts, wider wheels, heavier springs and swaybars, and either a 3-speed manual box, a wide- or close-ratio 4-speed, or a 3-speed turbo-hydramatic trans. The L-78 package included a single 4-bbl engine with 350HP. The hot-rod engine, in mine, was the W-29, with three 2-barrel Rochester 2GC carbs and rated at 360HP. The W-30 was a similar engine "factory blueprinted" and with a single 4-bbl, a still hotter cam and cold-air induction, built as an NHRA homologation-special series. There were roughly 50 factory-built real W-30 cars in '66 and about another 50 dealer-installed "Track Pack" packages.

Far as I know, all of the option packages were available with the J50 power brakes (drum).

So...any '66 442 option package L-78 could be had with power brakes.

And any wildly-cammed W-30 car, even if it didn't pull enough vacuum, could easily be retrofitted with an OEM booster and master cylinder, and an oversize vacuum reservoir and / or a vacuum pump.

The '70 W-30 car could even be ordered with AC, if also equipped with the auto gearbox and power brakes.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[Can-Con]

Sounds weird but in the Olds '70 performance brochure it lists power disk brakes available for the '70 442 W-30 as option code JL2 but it has "automatic only" in brackets under it.

So, it does look like no power brakes for standard transmission W-30 442s in '70.

I'd never heard of this before, I had no idea.

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Oldsmobile/1970%20Oldsmobile/1970_Oldsmobile_Performance_Brochure/1970%20Oldsmobile%20Performance-10-11.html

Edited February 7, 2015 by Can-Con

[Ace-Garageguy]

Sounds weird but in the Olds '70 performance brochure it lists power disk brakes available for the '70 442 W-30 as option code JL2 but it has "automatic only" in brackets under it.

So, it does look like no power brakes for standard transmission W-30 442s in '70.

I'd never heard of this before, I had no idea.

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Oldsmobile/1970%20Oldsmobile/1970_Oldsmobile_Performance_Brochure/1970%20Oldsmobile%20Performance-10-11.html

The original question was about the '66 car. The OP is building a '66.

Far as the '70 cars go, this is from http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofwmc.htm

QUOTE:

"W-31

A Cutlass w/350 CID performance option, not a 442 option.

Technically, the W-31 was only built in 1969 and 1970. While not called a W-31, the equivalent vehicle was available and called the "Ram Rod 350" in 1968. All W-31's came with manual brakes only, due to the 308° duration cams (e.g. not enough vacuum to operate power brakes). But it's not hard to add a booster, though. You just need a reliable vacuum source."

NOTE: A manual brake car would have a different diameter master cylinder from a power brake car, to increase mechanical advantage on the pedal. Power brakes could easily be fitted, as I said before, using the OEM master cylinder and booster. It would look just like a factory installation. The only difference would be a large vacuum can and / or an electric vacuum pump mounted somewhere.

The silver thingy to the right is a typical electric vacuum pump, added to a normal power brake system. An auxiliary vacuum reservoir could be as simple as a 1-gallon fruit can (which some pop-up light Corvettes used as backup to lift the lights if the engine was stopped).

Edited February 7, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[Can-Con]

Bill ,, I know that the original question was about the '66.

I was just saying that according to the info in the Olds brochure, Steve Andrews seemed to be correct about the '70 and that I had no idea and had never heard before that power brakes weren't available on those cars in that year.

I was not saying anything you were saying was incorrect in any way. I apologies if it sounded that way to you.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Yes, I think you may both right. I've seen other references saying they've never seen a '70 W-30 with power brakes too. I don't know for certain, one way or another. I have seen that body-shell presented as a W-30 car, with power brakes. Could have been a clone, or a downright fake, or a dealer installation, etc.

I was just trying to clarify. primarily for the OP, that ANY '66 442 (or any car for that matter...unless it was being built very strictly showroom stock) could be correctly equipped with power brakes, one way or another.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[w451973]

Whatever you choose to do on your 66 just make sure you put the master cylinder "up" on the firewall where it belongs and not where AMT specify's.

On 1970 W-30's. You could not get power brakes with a 4 speed due to the 328 degree cam used. It recieved manual disc brakes as standard equipment. You could get power brakes with an auto as previously stated. And no power brakes available on any 68-70 Ram Rod or W-31.

I wish I could help you on the 66 but I don't know as much about them. Sorry.