I build for Fun, I build for myself.

[Ace-Garageguy]

The problem that I've had when doing this, is that sometimes it's a real beeyotch to peel the foil off after painting. I'd use a dull toothpick to pull up an edge so I'd have enough to grab with tweezers, but usually would wind up marring or pulling up some paint at the edge. I've found that Tamiya tape works much better.

I've seen references to using foil to mask before, and the pulling-up-paint issue has occurred to me, because even tape can pull paint that's not well-stuck.

Some guys in my club use foil to get razor-sharp lines on racing stripes and such, but I don't know what kind of prep they're doing under their base color to insure against pull-up.

[Tom Geiger]

The problem that I've had when doing this, is that sometimes it's a real beeyotch to peel the foil off after painting. I'd use a dull toothpick to pull up an edge so I'd have enough to grab with tweezers, but usually would wind up marring or pulling up some paint at the edge. I've found that Tamiya tape works much better.

I agree. I'm almost great when I use Tamiya Tape! Still there are very small things that need to be taped off occasionally and I'll still use foil. I then will do a quick score around the foil prior to attempting to remove it. That seems to do the trick.

[sjordan2]

but are we overlooking the reason people build models - or in a broader sense - develop their hobbies?

No, Everyone builds for different reasons and different tastes. As you should have seen on this thread and the many others on the same subject.

does every part need to be the quintessential icon it is meant to represent?

No. But again, that depends on the builder.

can't a hobby just be a couple of hours away from the headaches of daily life without phones and people butting into your "me" time?

Yes. But your definition of "me" time both agrees with and differs from many others.

sometimes I just want to have a steak, but that doesn't mean I need to know all the parts of the cow.

If you knew more parts of the cow, you could order a better steak.

Your continuing wet blanket posts on this subject remind me of my ex-wife [emphasis on the "ex" part]. If something didn't appeal to her personal interests, regardless of the tastes of others, it was worthless. I'll bet anything that you've read all those other similar posts, which you have also participated in, and you're just trying to stir things up.

Please stop repeating your same old irritating comments. They indicate you're trying to jack us around so you can feel superior.

Edited August 3, 2014 by sjordan2

[southpier]

thanks; there's been a shortage of free advice lately.

Edited August 3, 2014 by southpier

[sjordan2]

you don't know the meaning of "jacked around".

I think my meaning is clear, and possibly not literal, though you apparently don't get a lot of things. How about "screwing us around?" "Messing with us?" "Being a total jerk?" So you can feel superior. And if this lame comment is all you can say, you're not refuting my other points.

screw around (with somebody) (slang)

1. to annoy someone by wasting their time You'll be sorry if you screw around with Captain Legore.screw around (with somebody) (slang)

Speaking of free advice, no shortage from you.

Okay, this is enough -- the last time I bite on a fool's hate bait, or fuel it myself. Anyone can send any slings and arrows my way from now on, and I'll take it without defending myself in a confrontational way. I will work to respond in as cordial and mature a manner as I can, or not respond at all. While no one will be following this thread, I'll stand by that throughout this forum.

Edited August 3, 2014 by sjordan2

[Ace-Garageguy]

Who would think that model-car building could become as divisive as say, politics or religion? We ALL get something from this hobby, but WE ALL DON'T HAVE TO GET THE SAME THING.

We're ALL here because we enjoy the hobby, and there's no "ONE WAY" to do it.

I won't tell anyone how they SHOULD enjoy it, and I don't expect to be told.

EVERY time the subject of scale-fidelity, or striving to do better work, or competition (or a host of other going-beyond-slapping-things-together-and-calling-it-good-enough topics) comes up, it soon becomes a battle launched by the "I build for FUN and MYSELF" cadre, with finger pointing and a sly attempt to make those who want to take things to a higher level feel guilty for wanting to achieve.

I don't get it. Somebody, please oh please explain what the deal is.

Can't we all just enjoy our broadly-shared interest, live and let live, and ditch the arguing?

One more point. Those guys content with "slapping-things-together-and-calling-it-good-enough" don't really have much to add to a conversation exactly because they're not looking to improve, develop new techniques, or build at a higher level. There's only so much anyone can say about a non-caring build style, but I rarely, if ever, see those builders attacked because they didn't come up to other builders' expectations. They MAY be offered constructive criticism, but nobody tries to make them feel morally inferior because they don't have higher standards.

Is the simple act of HAVING HIGHER STANDARDS interpreted as a threat by the ones who don't??

Come to think of it, this seems to be a pretty common happening everywhere. Just another "human" failing, I suppose.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[imarriedawitch]

These threads always remind me of the cartoon where the boy scout is helping a little old lady across the street when she really wasn't wanting to cross the street.

I think the old fashion way works the best. Have a question? Ask and someone will answer. Need some advise? Ask and you'll get it.

[rmvw guy]

I think that you've described the 90% of model builders. The people who make up the majority of the kit manufacturers market, the guys who buy an occasional kit at Michaels or Walmart and put it together on a rainy day. They never put it against research material, nor do they care if something is a quarter of a millimeter off. They've just got this 3D puzzle of a Mustang that they're going to attempt to put together.

I once knew a guy named Dale, who lived in motels a lot for work. He just wanted some evening entertainment, so he'd find a model kit and a tube of glue. He had no paint, didn't care about mold lines or any other imperfections. He got about a week of evenings out of just assembling the kit. It made him happy. And those are the people who actually finance our hobby.

As a group we need to realize that we are that odd 10% that take this hobby to an extreme. We are the lunatic fringe who participate in message boards, clubs and shows. If you want to run with this group, the game is a bit more serious, and better results are accepted as the norm. Note that the manufacturers recognize us for who we are. They take us with a grain of salt since our requests for new kits, and our criticism of their kits doesn't reflect that of 90% or more of their customer base!

On the other hand... there was a guy in my club who was a sloppy builder. He did no clean up on parts. He'd brush paint parts on the trees, and spray his bodies with one coat of Walmart paint. He saw no purpose for primer. He wasn't all that careful with his glue either. He'd knock these out on a regular basis. If a kit took him more than a week or two, he lost interest. He once said that he wasn't happy if he spent an evening and didn't finish a major part of the kit. And that would be okay until...

He complained about our little club contest we held every other month. He wasn't winning! I tried to coach and motivate him to put more effort into his models. Nope, not interested. Then he'd come up with contest suggestions that the models should be shown with the hoods shut, since others did a lot of detail and he couldn't be bothered to wire anything. He'd whine to anyone that would listen. He also suggested that the models be judged (popular vote) from 5 feet away to equalize them. He'd complain that the contest "wasn't fair" since others had more time to build since he worked for a living. Truth is, he probably spent more time building than the rest of us!

He so wanted to win a contest, but wasn't willing to put in the effort to do so. We couldn't get through to him that effort = reward. And this was a man in his forties.

Now the scary part.. he would put himself out there as a commission builder. Yea, occasionally some poor unsuspecting soul would hire him to build a model for them!

I really like what you are saying here. I am probably some where in that 90% category. I like to add a higher level of detail to my models but, it has a tendency to take all the fun away at times. Sometimes I like to just build them like a "3D puzzle" as you describe. If I get into any high level of detail I usually totally lose track of time. I guess this can be fun too, but I don't feel that I have enough time left in this life time to build the stash I have. Anyway, all I am saying is yes, I do build for fun and yes, I do build for myself. Unlike the guy in your club, I don't expect to ever win any trophies nor will I enter any more contests. When I see what it takes to win at shows I figure I may as well pack it up. I do however enjoy showing my efforts on the forums and receiving coments. It's a hobby after all and can be enjoyed at any level. This, (The Off-Topic Lounge), is just a place to share conversation. Thanks.

[Tom Geiger]

If I get into any high level of detail I usually totally lose track of time. I guess this can be fun too, but I don't feel that I have enough time left in this life time to build the stash I have.

Ron, I think you answered something for yourself.... when I get involved in a project I lose track of time and pretty much tune out everything else. I can have the TV on and never notice that the show has changed. I bring a cold beer to the model room, I take one sip and forget about it. It goes warm and flat. But I emerge from the model room refreshed, and with a sense of accomplishment. My mind is clear and I feel good. And that's what a hobby should do for you.

I never saw a rule book that says you have to build them all. I don't put myself under that kind of pressure since it is a hobby. I consider my 'inventory' a collection that I enjoy owning, and I like to have the kits and parts on hand for my next great idea. Someday I may just sell it all to a dealer, or if I fall off my perch, my wife will. Was my ownership a waste? No, owning it all made me happy and I was keeping it safe and warm for the next guy.

So if you do lose track of time while working on a high level of detail, go for it. I'd rather have a handful of nice builds that I poured my heart and soul into, than shelves full of mediocre stuff that I slapped together in the interest of saving time.

My life, my opinions. Your actual mileage may vary!

Edited August 4, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[Harry P.]

Is the simple act of HAVING HIGHER STANDARDS interpreted as a threat by the ones who don't??

Yes.

[Custom Mike]

Bare Metal Foil is actually pretty simple. Everyone just over thinks it. I have no idea where you live, but if I spent a half your with you, you would be foiling with the best of them.

Here's a few tips... and where people go wrong... and the last time I posted something like this certain people went nutz to contradict me.

1. Don't be stingy with the foil. You know how you order 120-150% of carpet or flooring to do a job and there's a ton of waste afterwards? BMF is like that. You will need to cut a piece about 3 times as wide as the part you are covering.

2. Place the foil down so the foil is centered over the part you are covering. Never try to line it up with an edge. You are better off cutting the foil off your edges. It will be cleaner in the end.

3. Place the foil down ONCE. Don't lift and reposition a bunch of times. That weakens the glue and puts wrinkles in your foil.

4. Never touch the glue side of the foil! Cut your piece longer than the item you are going to foil so that you cut off the edges you have touched.

5. Burnish it down with your fingers first. Then maybe with a square of old t-shirt. You can get into crevices with a de-sharpened tooth pick. Be careful not to punch through.

6. Use a new number 11 blade. Some folks paint the sides of the blade flat black so they can see the edge of it against the foil. This is a good idea because under bright lights, everything is shiny glare.

7. If you don't like the result, pull the foil off and try again. You get an infinite amount of do overs!

Now here's the biggie. It takes ZERO force to cut through BMF. None at all. So when you go to cut the piece, just trace along the edge... as if you are sketching lightly with a pencil. Practice going as light as you can. There is no reason to press hard enough to scar your paint. It may not look like the foil is cut, but believe me it is. Think more like you want to score it than cut through. Now just take a dull toothpick and pull the excess away from the cut. Once you get a bit up, grab the edge with a tweezer and slowly, carefully pull it off.

I've down demos at club meetings and had adults afraid to try, but 10 year old kids foiling in minutes.

Excellent advice Tom, the only thing I would add (Since I'm heavy-handed), is to use the X-Acto blade without the handle. It keeps you from applying too much pressure, and gives better control on tight bends.

[High octane]

Good advice Tom, but when I do BMF I don't agree with tips # 3,4,5, & six, but that's just the way I work with the material.

[rmvw guy]

Ron, I think you answered something for yourself.... when I get involved in a project I lose track of time and pretty much tune out everything else. I can have the TV on and never notice that the show has changed.

Thanks Tom, I think you hit the nail on the head with this comment. I call it "In the Zone". I do love that feeling I get there sometimes and feel I do my best work, it can be scarey when you look at the clock. You are right, I will never build them all.

I have a friend who builds about one awesome model a year. He travels with it to shows such as NNL East and you see it in the magazines. He is in a very active club. I wish I had the skill, time and money to build and travel like he does. He uses a lot of after market and machined parts that he makes. He is a Machinest. My hat is off to him and others like him.

My models are mediocre at best. I stay mostly at home and this is okay. It's just a hobby and not a profession for me, and remains to be fun. It's a great hobby for a retiree like me.

[Tom Geiger]

Thanks Ron! There is nothing better than "being in the zone"! That's when you know the hobby is working.

Catch a ride to NNL East with your friend someday. An NNL isn't about cutting edge models. It's more about you and I and enjoying the hobby with others. Your work is welcome here! And you'll have the best hobby day of the year!

[rmvw guy]

but are we overlooking the reason people build models - or in a broader sense - develop their hobbies?

does every part need to be the quintessential icon it is meant to represent?

can't a hobby just be a couple of hours away from the headaches of daily life without phones and people butting into your "me" time?

sometimes I just want to have a steak, but that doesn't mean I need to know all the parts of the cow.

"southpier" Joe, I always get a kick out of your comments and I love your avitar. You add a lot to the Forum. Sometimes after reading your comments I scratch my head and say 'What?" and then I get it! I don't care what anyone says about you, you are "The Man". Keep on keeping on. It's all about fun.

[Jantrix]

I think that you've described the 90% of model builders. They've just got this 3D puzzle of a Mustang that they're going to attempt to put together. As a group we need to realize that we are that odd 10% that take this hobby to an extreme. We are the lunatic fringe who participate in message boards, clubs and shows. If you want to run with this group, the game is a bit more serious, and better results are accepted as the norm. Note that the manufacturers recognize us for who we are. They take us with a grain of salt since our requests for new kits, and our criticism of their kits doesn't reflect that of 90% or more of their customer base!

I've never thought of it like that Tom. Is it just a 3D jigsaw to most builders? I've just sort of accepted the thought, that any builder over the age of 20, is building for the same reasons as I do. Which is to turn out a finished piece that I'm proud of and could hold it's own on a contest table. I care about the quality of my work and the idea that some people aren't concerned with it, is hard to wrap my brain around. But, I'm a member of several Facebook groups, and I see that mentality a LOT there. My suggestions and critiques are as appreciated as a fart in church. I'm going to have to think on this.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Jantrix

[southpier]

"if you're one of us, you'll take a bite..."

[imarriedawitch]

For some it's all about the model and the finished result. For others that kit is merely a means to an end. If someone is by themselves and they can while away a couple of hours in an otherwise long day then that kit has done it's job whether detailed or not. If someone with chronic pain can get a few hours of relief because their mind is focused on building rather than their ailments then I don't care if the final results are good, bad or upside down.

[Pete J.]

I've never thought of it like that Tom. Is it just a 3D jigsaw to most builders? I've just sort of accepted the thought, that any builder over the age of 20, is building for the same reasons as I do. Which is to turn out a finished piece that I'm proud of and could hold it's own on a contest table. I care about the quality of my work and the idea that some people aren't concerned with it, is hard to wrap my brain around. But, I'm a member of several Facebook groups, and I see that mentality a LOT there. My suggestions and critiques are as appreciated as a fart in church. I'm going to have to think on this.

I the world of psychiatry this is what is know as "The illusion of central position." Generally most people believe that they are like everybody else(or everybody else is like them) and that they think the same thoughts and have the same reasons for what they do. In reality just the opposite is true. Each of us is unique. We are shaped by our lifetime of experiences good and bad and thus see every thing from a different perspective.

In short, none of us build for exactly the same reasons as others. We may share some attitudes in varying degrees, but we all do it for our own reasons.

My point in starting this post was to point out what a fallacy it is to comment, "I build for fun." and "I build for myself." is, especially when confronted another persons highly detailed well executed model. Those who make those comments in that situation are assuming that the person who did that model isn't having fun. "Fun" is a very subjective thing and each of us creates that fun in our own unique way.

The only thing we really share is the medium, which is model building. You can't truly understand why a builder does a build the way they do. You can only accept that they did it in their own way and had their brand of fun doing it. Accept it for what it is and appreciate it and enjoy the hobby.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Pete J.

[Tom Geiger]

Each of us is unique. We are shaped by our lifetime of experiences good and bad and thus see every thing from a different perspective.

I like your analysis. It's very true. One time I was in a management class about working with diverse people. One of the examples was to give someone a $20 bill and send them to get you 'a good lunch' with no further instruction. What would that person consider bringing you? It will vary as much as modeling opinions! Just watch the lunch line at work and see how very different the trays are from those very limited choices!

[rmvw guy]

"if you're one of us, you'll take a bite..."

What???? Again, maybe right over my head! Are you talking about the steak? Or the last post? You crack me up! Very clever!

[southpier]

google Youtube "George's swooshing pants"

[rmvw guy]

google Youtube "George's swooshing pants"

[Russell C]

I build for fun, incorporating a level of detail in certain elements of the model of which it could be said the miniature is quite realistic. What I build has me occasionally searching for psychiatric help.....

[blunc]

I have to agree..you need help.

that 4 cyl should have been double overhead cam.