tim boyd

Bud was working on a '29 on '32 rails for our "Salt Flats" cult theme. The yellow paint had been finished. I know that some of the NNL crew were planning to stop by to see Bud at the care facility on the way home from the NNL Nats last Saturday. I will be visiting with Steve Perry later today, Steve is very close to Bud and maybe he will have an update. I know Bud will be very touched by your concerns. TIM

John got it exactly right. For a bit of further context here....John, Glenn Marek, and Bob Koptis were among a a group that joined the original 'NNL 5' for either the second or third NNL meet (there was one in Cleveland at the auto show in addition to the Toledo even) and all three of them have toiled relentlessly over the ensuing 30 years to keep the original NNL (now what we call the NNL Nationals) alive and well. There are others who have been extremely active over the years, but I recall John, Glenn and Bob as being there nearly from the very start, AND we sall ALL 3 of them alive and very well at the 30th NNL Nationals last weekend. By the way , for my 2 cents I though the new facility was fabulous and the NNL event was as well populated as I can ever recall. Way to go, everyone who attended!!! TIM

To clarifyeven further, the first ever NNL was in Tom Woodruff's garage in summer, 1980. The one Andy refers to above was the first one in Toledo. Andy was at both events, as was I. Best regards...TIM

Harry...I've taken the liberty to copy my post from the '32 thread here as it addresses your point, based on my understanding of the economics of the hobby industury. Here it is: Doing a kit variation (the subject of Ken's original thread on the '32 Fords) IS NOT the same as doing an all new tool. Or stated another way, you are not missing out on all new tools of your favorite subject because Revell tooled up a five window coupe with a new Hemi engine, all new interior, additional exterior options, and a new decal sheet. Let me explain.... First is the creation of continued variations of kits like the '32 Ford and the Shelby, Bullit, and GT500 versions of the '06 Mustang GT kit. These variations are of relatively low incremental cost to a company like Revell Monogram. Because they sell well and because 80% of the "tool" has already been paid off via sales of previous versions, they can put together the business case to do addtional, and relatively specialized, variations. It makes us modelers happy, they sell relatively well, and most importantly, it helps them remain a viable business enterprise that can someday invest in all new tools. Second, and a completely different set of circumstances, is the creation of all-new or mostly new tools, which is what most of the suggestions in this thread are. These require an exponentially larger investment of engineering time and tool cutting for an entirely new kit. The subject must be of broad enough appeal to promise much higher sales than a variation of an existing kit, as the much larger investment must be paid off with much greater sales and income. So it's not an equal choice for Revell to do another '32 body vs. an all-new kit of something else. They are completely different sets of business considerations. Or that your favorite idea somehow will never see the light of day because Revell does variations of other kits. It just doesn't work that way. I personally hope that we continue to see variants of existing kits AND all-new tools. Just be cognizant that with today's economy and the very specialized (read, much lower sales volume) of our hobby these days, all new tools must comprise some pretty popular subjects to be a business success. ************ Harry, realize this is not what you want to hear, and it is certainly possible that my information is out of date. But it is an important distinction to make. Plus who knows, maybe we'll see a bunch of all-new tools announced at the Chicago Hobby Show that will make this whole subject irrelevant. How's that for a positive thought? Best regards...TIM

Cool links Bob! Thanks for posting those....TIM http://trakinscale.proboards.com/index.cgi EDIT: Revell....check this link to see what people have been doing with their '32 Fords http://public.fotki.com/drasticplasticsmcc...ds/23-34-fords/ and these... http://public.fotki.com/drasticplasticsmcc...dans-by-revell/ http://public.fotki.com/drasticplasticsmcc...ndow-by-revell/

Guys....there are two fundamental different sets of circumstances here. Doing a kit variation (the subject of Ken's original thread on the '32 Fords) IS NOT the same as doing an all new tool. Or stated another way, you are not missing out on all new tools of your favorite subject because Revell tooled up a five window coupe with a new Hemi engine, all new interior, additional exterior options, and a new decal sheet. Let me explain.... First is the creation of continued variations of kits like the '32 Ford and the Shelby, Bullit, and GT500 versions of the '06 Mustang GT kit. These variations are of relatively low incremental cost to a company like Revell Monogram. Because they sell well and because 80% of the "tool" has already been paid off via sales of previous versions, they can put together the business case to do addtional, and relatively specialized, variations. It makes us modelers happy, they sell relatively well, and most importantly, it helps them remain a viable business enterprise that can someday invest in all new tools. Second, and a completely different set of circumstances, is the creation of all-new or mostly new tools, which is what most of the suggestions in this thread are. These require an exponentially larger investment of engineering time and tool cutting for an entirely new kit. The subject must be of broad enough appeal to promise much higher sales that a variation of an existing kit, as the much larger investment must be paid off with much greater sales and income. So don't suggest that it's an equal choice for Revell to do another '32 body vs. an all-new kit of something else. They are completely different sets of business considerations. Or that your favorite idea somehow will never see the light of day because Revell does variations of other kits. It just doesn't work that way. I personally hope that we continue to see variants of existing kits AND all-new tools. Just be cognizant that with today's economy and the very specialized (read, much lower sales volume) of our hobby these days, all new tools must comprise some pretty popular subjects to be a business success. And as much as I'd love to see that Lusso, and, by the way, many of the other suggestions in this thread, most of these ideas just do not have the broad appeal required for commercial success. That's why we have the resin aftermarket and that's why we kitbash. So grab your X-Acto, go pound some plastic, and MAKE your kit idea a reality on your own desktop. Besides, as some of us know all to well, the one way to nearly guarantee a future kit of your favorite subject is to finish your own scratchuilt or kitbashed version first! TIM

Almost forgot....one of you cmmented "AND THEY REALLY NEED TO START PLACING THE CHROME PARTS WHERE THE SRUE ISN'T ON THE FRONT OF THE F#$@*^!@ PART" Well...actually, they already have. Check out the new chrome sprues on the '32 Ford Five Window kit. Done exactly as you suggested. And when I complimented them on this, they said that they've actually been doing this, wherever possible, on new kit parts for the last couple of years. TIM

A few comments... I don't always agree with Art Anderson but I've got to say that his post (immediately before this one) corresponds very closely to my own experience. Both Art and I have been fortunate enough to have been involved both as modelers and as so-called "insiders" in that we've had ongoing interaction with the management of the model companies for over 30 years. I realize that Art's insights are not what all of you want to hear, but they are based on the reality of the world we live in today. In response to "who has ever been asked about what model they would like by the model companies"? Well, for one, I have. Many times, in fact. Sometimes my suggestions have been taken, many times they have not. I know of many model car builders and writers who have also been consulted by the model makers. It would be naive to the extreme to suggest that one person, or even a group of people, alone could influence what the model companies decide to produce. But taken as a whole, with the other sources of input (as desribed by Art above), a model company can eventually get pretty clear direction on what types of kits to produce. Someone above states that they are upset that the thread on the '32 Ford is the only input Revell is watching. WRONG. Both the staff of Revell and AMT/Round 2 watch many threads on these boards from time to time. And on occasion, if I see a thread, that is in my view helpful and presents a fresh and realistic viewpoint, I will send the guys at the model companies the link to the thread with my comments. I thought the Ken Hart-led thread on the '32 Ford kit was exceptionally well done, with honest, realistic debate and taken from the prospective of trying to find new versions of an established best-selling kit that would continue the revenue stream for Revell. That's why I sent it to them, and they acknowledged that they had reviewed it. But it was far from the only thread that they have looked at over the years. And as for the model companies not getting deeply enough into the market to understand it, I quite frankly find that to be a really uninformed statement. As mentioned above, I've dealt on and off with the kit manufacturers for over thirty years now, and I can NEVER recall a time when the management of the respective companies are more aware of their target audience and their wants as they are as of today. The simple fact that, instead of reissuing the same '32 Ford and '06 Mustang GT kits over and over again with just different box art and decals (cue Revell, MPC, Monogram, and AMT-Ertl practices in the 1970's and 1980-'s), we now get not only new, different bodies but new engines, new interiors, and new wheels on top of everything else. This is a HUGE step in the right direction. Likewise, with the PN 96 F150, between the various kitmakers we got long bed, short bed, supercab, SVT Lightning, and Harley Davidson versions (the last with a truly cool DynaGlide Custom bike to boot). The Chevy Silverado got a follow-up version with a Thom Taylor-designed set of custom parts and a jet ski. And if you've bought any of the recent Round 2 versions of the AMT kit reissues, the way those kits have been designed (box art, decals, "extras") clearly communicates that they understand, exceedingly well, their target audience. As they get some success under their belts, I would expect we will soon see newly-tooled kit derivatives from AMT Round 2 as well. Do I have kit suggestions I've made that have never come to pass? Sure. For one, I find it truly astounding that we have not seen a ground-up, done right, new tool of the 1970 Plymouth 'Cuda. Between the multiple possible stock versions and the licensed drag racing spinoffs, this one seems like a home run to me. But in spite of my best persuasive efforts, conveyed over a number of years, nothing. Likewise, I can understand, in retrospect, the comment about the 5.0L Mustang notchback, but the fact is that, when these were new, they did not have the attention and the market presence that would have suggested a kit version, and today, the relatively narrow but intense interest in this kit subject would just not be big enough to justify such a kit. Wish I was wrong here, but what we all have to remember is that the model car manufacturers are in business. To make money, to pay their employees and suppliers, to pay dividends for their shareholders, and to generate enough retained earnings to assure the ongoing survival and success of their enterprises. And if they conclude that there is not enough business in pickup trucks, in '70 Hemi Cudas, in 5.0L Fox Mustangs, and in restored stock '32 Ford kits, based on their track record of the last ten years then I guess I've got to step up and say, personal wants aside, they probably made the right decision. What do do, then, if you want to build a new pickup kit? There are litterally hundreds, probably over a thousand different truck kits that have been issued over the last 50 years. How many of those have you already built? Yeah. just what I thought. So get to your store, get to eBay.com, or your nearest swap meet, buy one of the hundreds of pickup kits that you have not built do date, get busy, and post pictures of the finished models here. I, for one, can't wait to seem 'em. Thanks for taking the time to read this....TIM

A few comments... I don't always agree with Art Anderson but I've got to say that his post (immediately before this one) corresponds very closely to my own experience. Both Art and I have been fortunate enough to have been involved both as modelers and as so-called "insiders" in that we've had ongoing interaction with the management of the model companies for over 30 years. I realize that Art's insights are not what all of you want to hear, but they are based on the reality of the world we live in today. In response to "who has ever been asked about what model they would like by the model companies"? Well, for one, I have. Many times, in fact. Sometimes my suggestions have been taken, many times they have not. I know of many model car builders and writers who have also been consulted by the model makers. It would be naive to the extreme to suggest that one person, or even a group of people, alone could influence what the model companies decide to produce. But taken as a whole, with the other sources of input (as desribed by Art above), a model company can eventually get pretty clear direction on what types of kits to produce. Someone above states that they are upset that the thread on the '32 Ford is the only input Revell is watching. WRONG. Both the staff of Revell and AMT/Round 2 watch many threads on these boards from time to time. And on occasion, if I see a thread, that is in my view helpful and presents a fresh and realistic viewpoint, I will send the guys at the model companies the link to the thread with my comments. I thought the Ken Hart-led thread on the '32 Ford kit was exceptionally well done, with honest, realistic debate and taken from the prospective of trying to find new versions of an established best-selling kit that would continue the revenue stream for Revell. That's why I sent it to them, and they acknowledged that they had reviewed it. But it was far from the only thread that they have looked at over the years. And as for the model companies not getting deeply enough into the market to understand it, I quite frankly find that to be a really uninformed statement. As mentioned above, I've dealt on and off with the kit manufacturers for over thirty years now, and I can NEVER recall a time when the management of the respective companies are more aware of their target audience and their wants as they are as of today. The simple fact that, instead of reissuing the same '32 Ford and '06 Mustang GT kits over and over again with just different box art and decals (cue Revell, MPC, Monogram, and AMT-Ertl practices in the 1970's and 1980-'s), we now get not only new, different bodies but new engines, new interiors, and new wheels on top of everything else. This is a HUGE step in the right direction. Likewise, with the PN 96 F150, between the various kitmakers we got long bed, short bed, supercab, SVT Lightning, and Harley Davidson versions (the last with a truly cool DynaGlide Custom bike to boot). The Chevy Silverado got a follow-up version with a Thom Taylor-designed set of custom parts and a jet ski. And if you've bought any of the recent Round 2 versions of the AMT kit reissues, the way those kits have been designed (box art, decals, "extras") clearly communicates that they understand, exceedingly well, their target audience. As they get some success under their belts, I would expect we will soon see newly-tooled kit derivatives from AMT Round 2 as well. Do I have kit suggestions I've made that have never come to pass? Sure. For one, I find it truly astounding that we have not seen a ground-up, done right, new tool of the 1970 Plymouth 'Cuda. Between the multiple possible stock versions and the licensed drag racing spinoffs, this one seems like a home run to me. But in spite of my best persuasive efforts, conveyed over a number of years, nothing. Likewise, I can understand, in retrospect, the comment about the 5.0L Mustang notchback, but the fact is that, when these were new, they did not have the attention and the market presence that would have suggested a kit version, and today, the relatively narrow but intense interest in this kit subject would just not be big enough to justify such a kit. Wish I was wrong here, but what we all have to remember is that the model car manufacturers are in business. To make money, to pay their employees and suppliers, to pay dividends for their shareholders, and to generate enough retained earnings to assure the ongoing survival and success of their enterprises. And if they conclude that there is not enough business in pickup trucks, in '70 Hemi Cudas, in 5.0L Fox Mustangs, and in restored stock '32 Ford kits, based on their track record of the last ten years then I guess I've got to step up and say, personal wants aside, they probably made the right decision. What do do, then, if you want to build a new pickup kit? There are litterally hundreds, probably over a thousand different truck kits that have been issued over the last 50 years. How many of those have you already built? Yeah. just what I thought. So get to your store, get to eBay.com, or your nearest swap meet, buy one of the hundreds of pickup kits that you have not built do date, get busy, and post pictures of the finished models here. I, for one, can't wait to seem 'em. Thanks for taking the time to read this....TIM

Harry....that idea would rank about #1001 on my list of 1000 kitbashing projects I want to complete before I dide. Sorry, just not my thing. My point is, there must be someone here (Ed???) for whom it would be #1 on a list of 100o kit bashing projects....TIM

I realize that there are some of you that would like to see Revell do a stock '32 chassis version of their Deuce Ford series. My contacts there tell me there is no chance of that happening. The reasons are that they do not see any significant market for it. As was pointed out to me, if there was a market for a complete stock version, we would already see some of of the Aftermarket kitmakers doing the entire conversion. Yes, Norm does a very nice converted frame, but's that's a far cry from all the parts needed for a truly correct stock version. Look at this another way. For nearly five decades now, and with a few notable exceptions (this kit series being one, Monogram's '37 Ford series being another), street rod modelers like myself have had to put up with so-called street rod versions of early Fords that are extreme compromises due to the need for restored stock parts in the same kit. It's about time that WE (the street rod builders out there) had some old Ford kits that are truly accurate street rod kits to ourselves. As has been pointed out before, between the parts in the Revell Rat Rod '29 and '31 kits, the AMT '32 Vicky/Tudor/Phaeton kits, and the stock version of the AMT-Ertl '34 Ford Coupe kit, a really accurate stock '32 could be put together using either the Revell Tudor or Five Window sedan kit. This would be a great magazine article or a great web tutorial. Who's going to step up to the plate on this one? TIM

Roger...thanks for the link....FWIW I just posted my views on truck kits at that thread....TIM e

Interesting points above, all. The current F-Series has been for the last 30 years or so, and remains (other than a couple of odd months in the last year and a half) by far the largest selling automotive product of any kind on this continent. The Chevy and Dodge pickups are not too far behind. Yet for many years now, what sells best in 1/1 scale has not correlated well to what sells in 1/25th scale kits. This is just my supposition but when the Ford PN96 F150 came out around 1`96-97, there were several different F150 kits done by several different manufacturers and even though the licensing was done to avoid exact same versions across the offerings, I suspect that what business there was, was split across all these tools and everyone did poorly on their return on investment for those tools. Bottom line,,,,personally I don't expect to see any new (current or recent model) pickup kits soon. BUT I would not be too surprised to eventually see something like a 1961-63 Ford Unibody (new tool), '64-66 Styleside, or '67-72 Bumpside. Of course I would love a '70 Ranchero of the Torino GT kit, but again I think they determined there just wasn't enough interest. And then again, as one of you pointed out above, a Ranchero is really a car, not a truck. Of course, I never EVER dreamed REvell would do a chopped '49 Merc kit...so best take my information above as nothing more than slightly informed speculation! TIM PS - there are a ton of GREAT pickup kits out there already. EVer built a Little Red WAgon as a stock A100 (virtually ever part IS in the kit). How about the original issue MPC Dodge D100 Adventurer 4x2's from the early 1970's (you can get 'em on the bay for generally under $100). And yes, both of these are on my personal build list....TB

url="http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22961&st=0"]Ken Hart and many others talk about their ideas for future '32 Ford kit variations Guys....just a headsup that I understand that one or more of the product develompent team from Revell are watching this thread of ideas....obviously, no promise that they will in fact do any more kit variations but it is interesting to know as they've shown a willingness to consider ideas from the building community in their future product plans. Best regards....TIM

There is a fantastic article on the Muira in the new issue of Classic Cars (UK) magazine this month...gold Muira on cover....article is three Muiras including the one owned by the Shaw of Iran retracing the roads shown int he opening of the Italian job original film....fantastic scenic photography and of course the cars look superb....TIM

There is a fantastic article on the Muira in the new issue of Classic Cars (UK) magazine this month...gold Muira on cover....article is three Muiras including the one owned by the Shaw of Iran retracing the roads shown int he opening of the Italian job original film....fantastic scenic photography and of course the cars look superb....TIM

Should have said also....great build Charlz. That is a tough kit to get together right, and that is exactly what you did. Congratulations...TIM

Careful guys about slamming In A Godda da Vida....IIRC it was the top selling album of all time for several years...and remained in the top 100 albums for sales for a surprising number of years.....and as for the eight tracks...everything above is true. A few years back I bought two eight track players on eBay to try to reinvigoriate my extensive eitght track collection....quickly found out that among the few tapes that were not broken (see above for explanation), the rubber rollers had turned into an oily, squishy black mess that quickly obliterated the tape head of the eight track players....oh well. An I still like In a Godda da Vida....great album from front to back. There, I said it, and I'm proud! TIM

Bernard....just a quick note that I'm loving your build so far....great theme and that Fisher 6 was an inspired choice. Don't know if you are planning to go to the NNL Nats (Toledo) this year but if so, please bring along this project and display it in our special "Bonneville/Land Speed Record" cult theme display. Whether you are finished or not... Best regards....TIM BOYD

Tim Boyd Van Project Here's a never-to-be-completed van project circa late 1976/early 1977. It's the AMT Ford Econoline, customised with a widened lower rocker panel, scratchbuiltfront bumper and wheel wells, a lowered door window opening, scoop in the hood, and the rear end changed with a side panel insert in place of the rear doors to continue the side depression around to the rear. Don't really recall why I stopped working on it. Dug it out and photographed in this week as Steve Perry is working on a somewhat related project and I wanted to show it to him. Plus, I keep predicting that 1960's and early 1970's vans are going to come back big in the 1.1 scale rod world (we'll see!) A few more pix at the link.... Thanks for looking....TIM

Hans....and I still have that magazine copy around somewhere....as i recall this was among the verty few times my work appeared in color at that time.... Thanka again these many years later...tIM

Bob...the wierd Al relationship seems to be broadly shared by the modeling community. My girlfriend doesn't think it is so cool though! Andy, thanks for dragging out those photos....I would have been 15 in the first shot and just graduating from college in ths shot wth Bruce and Bill Merrill....TB