Swifster

Nope, they're real. I saw a few on the Big Billboards. I've also seen them as posters for well over $100.

Christian, thanks for confirming that. I've actually seen a couple with painted stripes but I could never find info one way or another. Now to decide on a color...

I also went to Hobby Lobby. They are new here and didn't know I could do two coupons...DANG IT! I got the AMT 1966 Olds 442. I also got a Route 66 license plate for my collection. I collect license plates too, and I pick up a booster or 'hobby' plate every so often. This will probably get front bumper duty on my Studebaker when I make my Route 66 trip.

I didn't get that post. It's perfectly legal to build anything you want. They just don't show the transaction costs for the parts they purchase. Most of those cars have big wallet customers, or in the case of Chip Foose, the owner will have a hefty tax bill when he goes to register it. EDIT: For the common guy working at home, our Supreme Court has ruled a company in another state (say Dynacorn in CA) doesn't have to collect the sales tax for FL (where I live). On a $15K purchase, that sales tax is $950. If I have another Mustang titled (say a '65 convertible that was $1000 for a parts car), I paid sales tax already on the car of $70. That's a difference of $880. Can you see why I'd want to transfer the serial numbers? Pull off the useable parts of that one car and make little pieces of custome jewelry out of the rest of it and take the little pieces to the scrap yard. This is why I mean that this is more about taxes. If you ask the state of Florida to title the car with a state issued VIN, they will want to see all of the receipts or they will assess a value for the car (say it's $50K) and now your tax burden could be $3050. It's all about our Dead Presidents. In most states, they don't care about passing an emissions inspection (except Kalifornia). We have no build restrictions on what we can build. There are some states that have rules regarding stuff like old roadsters (fender requirements). Newer cars don't have to worry about that.

So a Hobby Lobby opened in Lakeland yesterday and I paid a visit today. With a handy, dandy 40% off coupon, I bought the AMT '66 Olds 4-4-2. Looking at the package, it appears this kit comes without the Oldsmobile optional hood and deck stripes. Anyone away of who may sell these in black or white? These were the optional two-tone colors for the roof and I plan on doing the two-tone. Suggestions? Hints? Sounds like? Any help would be appreciated. Oh, and no, there was no '53 Hudson...

Jeff, let's say I want to deck the block. The machinist cut's some material from the deck. If it's deep enough, these numbers are no longer there. Or maybe I fill those numbers in with weld and remachine it flat. The numbers are gone. Then my machinist stamps the same plant codes and the correct serial number. Like I've said, I've been down that route with those types of numbers. Top it off that once the heads are on, you're covering the numbers with paint. The casting numbers on the back of the block are also important. If that was going into your Impala, you also want to make sure THOSE numbers are correct. Far easier to screw with stamped numbers than with casting numbers. Now also understand, I don't advocate this. But I also know it gets done. It's a lot of work and a lot of money. This is why I went 'warranty block'. I wasn't trying to hide that it wasn't the original engine.

Really? Is there some kind of Black Market for '71-'74 AMX's that I'm not aware of? Hell, I'd love a '68-'69 Javelin to play with. The bad part is even the nicest of early AMX's doesn't bring big money. AMC's are like Studebakers. You by the car because you like being different, not to get rich. The only Studebaker I saw make big money at Barrett-Jackson was a '58 Golden Hawk 400 with the leather interior that went around $80K. Other than that car, I can't remember one that went more than $50K.

Did I mention I'm an insurance appraiser for insurance claims for Hagerty and Grundy (vintage cars). I go and look at the damage when the cars are damaged. The last three cars I had to look at were a 1940 Hudson Deluxe Six convertible, a 1956 Ford F-100 and a 1976 Mercedes Benz 450SL. I get a lot of Camaros, Chevelles and Corvettes. I also see a lot of Mustangs.

Jeff, you're looking at casting numbers. These weren't stamped sequentially. If you know the codes for a '66 L-79 (327/350HP) that came out of a Nova SS, you look for the right casting numbers. There was only one block code for a Z-28 (DZ). These codes changed by the car (Nova, Chevelle, Camaro, Corvette, etc.). My book lists these codes. A friend of mine has two ZG blocks for the above engine. I could build one from scratch and then play with the stamping if I wanted to match THAT car. All other cars have casting number is various forms, even my Studebaker. You start with the block and build an engine from there. Most of this 'matching numbers' stuff comes from the Corvette guys, and to a lesser extent, the Mopar guys with Hemis. I asked about this with the Studebaker guys and was made fun of for a month. Engines were stamped by the day it was made. That's it. No serial number stamping or anything else. And this was in 1964. The only thing you want is a JT or JTS block (Jet Thrust R1, R2 or R3 engines). So if you'll spend $15K on a new '69 Camaro shell, you have the money to make the block match the car if you really want to. I could have done that with the Plymouth and didn't. The engines were made somewhere other than Norwood. They were built it most cases, a month or two before the car was. The engine was stamped at the plant once received and assigned to a car.

This is true, but no one is making body shells for a Javelin or an AMX. Most cars can be documented. Like a Marty report for Fords, data plates on a Mopar, etc. Let's be realistic though. How many are really trying to spend big bucks to make a clone. There are only so many DZ blocks out there. If it's me, I'd rather build it the way I want it. I new LS3 crate motor with 430HP, a 6-speed and dressed up as an SS. A real Z-28 isn't that hard to find for 'reasonable' money.

Hippyland kind of has to honor another states title. But because certain states are operating as a title laundering business (errr, Alabama), there are a couple that have to go thru the full inspection. I'm sure California is a great place to live, but their rules governing hot rods and vintage cars sucks. Again, it's more about taxes.

Art, Ford actually stamped the serial number on the engine begining with the Model T. Ford staarted stamping the engine number on the frame rails starting in 1925 or 1926. Begining with the A, the number was stamped in three places along the left frame rail along with the engine. Ford did this well into the 1940's. I love an 'assembled' '32 Ford roadster built from the ground up with nothing from Ford with an aftermarket frame, a Chevy small block and a fiberglass body. 'Sir, where do you have the serial number at?' And the guy looks like a deer in the headlights. 'Well, it's on my registration'... Where is it on the car? A lot of fun with those.

Christian, new body shells (especially with kit cars, i.e., see Cobras) come with a 'Statement of Origian'. It's like a serial number from the maker. I'm not positive, but I'd like to think Dynacorn sends a SoO with the body. That doesn't mean you have to use it. That's so they can issue their own serial number for a home built car. A person in their garage isn't considered a manufacturer and is usually exempt from emission and crash rules. The emissions may vary in Hippy states like California. The real issue isn't necessarily an emissions issue. it's a tax issue. This is why guys buy a parts car ($500 plus 7% sales tax) and then mail order a body shell from California ($15K and no sales tax). This is where the states lose money and get pissy. Now you order all the parts you want via mail order and you've paid $35 in sales tax on a car that cost you $50K to finish. This is how Boyd Coddington got in trouble in CA. As for emissions, that's easy. Use a newer engine. You can by brand new 302/5.0L fuel enjected crate engines directly from Ford. GM sells new LS3 as a complete plug in and drive crate engine. Chrysler does something similar with the 392 small block Hemi.

Jeff, I restored a '71 Plymouth Sport Fury GT. 1 of 371. When I got the car, it had a '68 383 in it. My car went down the line on May 30th, 1971. I found the correct 440 HP (370HP) block and had the original serial number (I think it was from a Charger) machined off and left the serial number pad blank. This was how Chrysler did their warranty blocks. If a car made it all the way down the assembly line and didn't start, in went the warranty engine. I could have had the block restamped with the VIN from that car, but didn't. But who's to say it wasn't original? Don't get me wrong, I never lied about the build. And a complete build book (including my pictures ) went with it. In the late 60's, there is nothing in the VIN saying what engine came with the car. The Z-28 was an optional package (and actually the RPO code). It did tell you if the car had a 6 cylinder or a V8. No more. If the block had the VIN stamped on it, it could have been machined off and restamped, similar to what I did with the Plymouth. Or at least leaving the block blank. There isn't much to a GM serial number in 1969... 124379Nxxxxxx 1 = Chevrolet 2437 = Camaro Sport Coupe with V8 9 = 1969 N = Norwood, OH Assembly Plant 100001 = Sequential Assembly Number Nothing in that VIN lists the engine as a 302, 327, 350, 396 or 427. The third digit (4) is a V8 with an even number. There are some codes on the build plate (cowl tag) that are needed to make a case for a Z-28. If you find the broadcast sheet under the seats, it will list every option on the car. In many cars, these are long gone. A 302 DZ block only came in a Z-28. But if you need an engine, who says you can't find one? There is no real way to confirm a '69 Z-28 without the broadcast sheet. And if you are going to clone one, is it better to start with a rusty shell or a new one?

1) Christine 2) Grand Prix 3) Hollywood Knights (Newbomb Turk taking pictures of girls by the pool) Never flick your cigar ashes on the seat of a '58 Plymouth Belveder...

Tom, I hate you! But in a good way...

Nope. That is the build or data plate. While the serial number is stamped on it, that's not the 'money' shot. The serial number was literally stamped to the left side apron. Many times during collision repairs, these were cut off and never restamped. I doubt they body shop was worried about collectability in the mid to late 60's. And by the way, if the car was a Shelby, that Shelby serial number plate was riveted over the top of the factory Ford number on the apron.

Chuck, there are IH guys who have breakdowns by VIN of the build date. This can usually be narrowed down to the month of build. State laws varied by state so anything is possible depending where the truck was sold. Some states used the serial number and others the engine number. The thing is, if a '64 Loadster serial number shows the truck as a '64 built in January of '64, it's still a '64. Now if the state titled vehicles by when the truck sold (and I've seen this on other cars), it's still a '64 titled as a '66. This info is available on the internet for just about anything that's been made. I had to hunt down the serial number info for a '40 Hudson convertible I was looking at.

THIS is illegal. It is an attempt to defraud. Now some states titled a vehicle pending the sale date. In otherwords, you could have a '63 Galaxie on the lot that for whatever reason didn't sell until February of '64 and it's titled as a '64. Or more common, a '65 Mustang sold in May of '64 titled as a '64 (and there were no '64-1/2 Mustangs) even though it was listed on the VIN as a '65.

You're looking at this as... OMG!!! But how many Duesenburg's were put together from a pile of parts? How many cars have been restored from a pile of parts? In your example, it was made easier by having a completely new body shell. I see no difference. I could make a clone Z-28 from a standard Camaro sport coupe. There are no Camaro VIN's from 1969 that list the engine. Even the data tage doesn't list the engine. Having a new shell vs an old shell means nothing. In your LeMans example, who would spend $16,000 to rebody a LeMans. It would be more than the value of the car. But make it a GTO Judge and the reason to do so changes. There are only so many serial numbers and data plates that will make that LeMans a GTO. Do you know how many Hemi 'Cuda clones there are. And even the clones are worth over $100,000. But there are only 10 VINs that show a Hemi 'Cuda convertible. You make a Hemi car from a slant six car, but that serial number will still show the engine code.

Craig, if on an insurance claim, a tree falls on a 1955 Chevy pick up and destroys the cab and doors. The serial number is riveted to the 'A' pillar. Does it matter if I repair it with a new cab and doors or used originals? When it's fixed and back on the road, will it be 'less' than what it was? Or better?

Dave, everything on a car is a service item. Frames, body shells and driveline parts can all be swapped out. I work in insurance claims. Why would I buy a rusted out used body on a roll over and rebuild that when I could get a new shell without the issues? I personally don't see the problem. There are more '32 Ford roadsters on the road now than Henry ever made.

I look at those pictures again and I guess a lot depends on when a given station switched from 'full service' to 'self serve'. I don't think the cigs would be outside if the station was was self serve. That doesn't mean the boxes on the light poles still wouldn't be there. In the picture of the girl filling her Fiat 850, you can still see the bell ringer hose running from the pumps like a full service station. I got my license in 1980 and a few friends worked at full service stations while in high school. Two service bays and open until 10PM. A friend of mine worked at a Mobil station in Grosse Pointe, MI and along with the bright white exterior, I remember the counter in the office, the oil cans, the candy machine, the cigarette machine, the old 'slider' credit card 'machine' with carbon copy slips, gumball machines and road maps. I like seeing the changes in culture from one time to another. This is one of the reasons I like this build so much.

I think a lot of those were for the Woodward Dream Cruise in Detroit in 2007. GM actually sells those in poster size but they are expensive. I personally like the '59 Chevy convertible with the caption, "Remember when your cup holder sat next to you and wore a poodle skirt?"

I've seen 440-4V cars with no snorkles. Just a round air cleaner. This photo is from a '68 GTX 440-4V... Um, I think this engine is blue. You can see the top of the valve covers. And engines in GTX's are the 375 HP engines. This one was a 4-speed with no power steering or brakes. And that was why it hit the freeway median.