is it only a matter of scale?

[detailstymied]

disclaimer: i didn't want to add more fuel to a volatile existing thread, nor taint a great build thread in progress.

but i have a gnawing question, to wit:

why do we complain at inaccuracies in a $22.00 kit, yet embrace the vastness and laud the efforts of those capable of correcting major deficiencies in an extinct $444.00 kit?

will the response be "well, that's why the company went out of business"?

just seems a little inconsistent.

[Ace-Garageguy]

why do we complain at inaccuracies in a $22.00 kit, yet embrace the vastness and laud the efforts of those capable of correcting major deficiencies in an extinct $444.00 kit?

This is very simple.

We "complain at inaccuracies in a $22.00 kit" because that small cheap kit is the product of a team of well-paid professionals whose job it is to produce an accurate manufactured product, and to get little things like the scale part of scale model right.

We "laud the efforts of those capable of correcting major deficiencies in an extinct $444.00 kit" because just for love of the hobby and getting it right for no other reason than personal pride in their workmanship, they do so.

However, it would seem that a company producing models in the multi-hundred dollar range might be driven to get it right too, but apparently not always. The lack of ability to measure accurately and divide by the working scale must cross all monetary and language boundaries, and be a slave to no particular ethnicity or creed.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[Daddyfink]

[Harry P.]

why do we complain at inaccuracies in a $22.00 kit, yet embrace the vastness and laud the efforts of those capable of correcting major deficiencies in an extinct $444.00 kit?

will the response be "well, that's why the company went out of business"?

I assume you're talking about Pocher.

There was a major fire at the Pocher factory/plant in Turin (Torino in Italian), Italy, in 1972 that destroyed the factory and much of the tooling. Pocher was subsequently bought out by Italian model train manufacturer Rivarossi of Como, Italy, but Rivarossi went bankrupt sometime in the 1990s and the Pocher line of kits was a victim of that bankruptcy.

So the reason Pocher went out of business had nothing to do with their kits accuracy (or lack of), but parent company Rivarossi going bankrupt.

BTW... British hobby company Hornby has brought the Pocher name back, and has released an all-new tool, 1/8 scale Lamborghini Aventador kit. Hopefully there will be more kits to follow.

[detailstymied]

but if their (Pocher) kits are so inaccurate, why are they held in such high esteem (especially at the cost based on dollar value at the time of their manufacture - basically a mortgage payment) when we're ready to storm the gates at the mere infraction of a optional part included in a kit which (in real/ now time) costs what a decent sandwich, beer, & tip does?

i think it's deeper than we are either aware, or willing to admit. our umbrage is disproportionate.

[Harry P.]

but if their (Pocher) kits are so inaccurate, why are they held in such high esteem

Because of their high level of detail. But mostly because they aren't being made anymore.

That means there are only so many unbuilt, complete Pocher kits still in existence, and that number of unbuilt, complete kits keeps shrinking, driving up prices.

However many are still left is all there will ever be. And some modelers (like me) are willing to spend some hefty $$$ to get an unbuilt, complete Pocher kit, inaccurate or not.

[Art Anderson]

Basically, the only accurate rendition of ANY car will an original, REAL one. No replica, in any scale, either larger or smaller, will EVER be a perfectly exact replica of the original.

Art

[Ben]

What I don't get is, are the people complaining about recent kits just building them straight from the box? Basically wanting them to fall together? I see kits as "a big help or a starting point" to the model I want to build. If it has inaccuracies, I correct them. That's my job as model builder. It's like being a mechanic. If you can overcome problems and figure things out and then fix them, your a mechanic. If you just open a box and install a part, your just that, a parts installer, not a mechanic. If you consider yourself a "model builder" then consider each obstical as a challenge to your modeling capabilities and overcome them.

[russosborne]

Basically, the only accurate rendition of ANY car will an original, REAL one. No replica, in any scale, either larger or smaller, will EVER be a perfectly exact replica of the original.

Art

Art, if you are going to bring logic and reasonable thought into this topic I don't know what to say.

What I don't get is, are the people complaining about recent kits just building them straight from the box? Basically wanting them to fall together? I see kits as "a big help or a starting point" to the model I want to build. If it has inaccuracies, I correct them. That's my job as model builder. It's like being a mechanic. If you can overcome problems and figure things out and then fix them, your a mechanic. If you just open a box and install a part, your just that, a parts installer, not a mechanic. If you consider yourself a "model builder" then consider each obstical as a challenge to your modeling capabilities and overcome them.

Ben, that is YOUR definition, not everybody's. Otherwise I will bring up the "if you really are a modeler all you need is a block of wood and a knife" argument. And there are a few ( at least) on here that could probably do that. But just because you can doesn't mean you want to.

Russ

Edited July 13, 2015 by russosborne

[sjordan2]

As Art said, there's no such thing as a perfect kit. But there's also no comparison to be made between a $22 1/24 plastic kit and a $444 multimedia 1/8 kit like a Pocher ($600 - $1200 is more like it). For the super-detailers, any kit invites a lot of extra work, and subject matter dictates a lot of choices. For me, research into a 1:1 tells me about accuracy and how much I may want to upgrade. Whatever the scale, subject or cost, it's all up to the individual.

But I would say that even for the amazing detail of Pocher kits, the larger scale lures a builder to supply the kind of additional detail and "accurizing" that's not practical at smaller scales. Inaccuracies can be pretty glaring in larger scales, and require more work to correct. Therefore, you'll get a similar amount of griping among all types of kits, regardless of the attributes of the basic kit. Pocher builders spend a lot and expect a lot, though they know what shortcomings may await. That doesn't mean they can't complain.

Edited July 13, 2015 by sjordan2

[detailstymied]

..... there's also no comparison to be made between a $22 1/24 plastic kit and a $444 multimedia 1/8 kit ...

no comparison intended. the contradiction which strikes me is the plethora of complaints with the former, and the willingness to remediate the incongruities in the latter. there was no intent to focus on any individual on either side of the in-equation (sic). just an attempt to give examples of my conundrum.

[oldcarfan]

Maybe for the same reason that we get mad about our Ford or Chevy needing service once in a while, but when a Ferrari or Mercedes breaks down everyone just says that's normal?

 

[detailstymied]

prior employer has an aston martin vantage. oil change was 1300$ plus flatbedding to the dealer 93 miles away. not that it has anythng to do with the original post.

[John Clutch]

Forget about getting 100% accurate kits on any car, because most real cars are not 100% accurate to begin with. Try fitting any body panel, new or used on your car, and you'll have adjustments that need to be made. And cars on the assembly line are built at incredible rates, and the companies main goal is to pump out as many cars with the least amount of work. So if mid year, they find out that component A costs too much to make/install, they change to component B to get the job done.  There is no press release on the subject, they just make the change. I collect coins as well, and the biggest gripe is about the quality of business strike coins.......well guess what !!!! The US mint doesnt care or has ever been in the business of being concerned about about the quality of business strike coinage, unless the US government wouldnt accept them for one reason or another........

Now model car manufacturers are in the business of duplicating to scale models that best they can, but just like anything else, time cost money. And it will never be in their interest to make a 100% accurate carb for a Ford Hi-Po 289. There is no profit gain in doing so, so why bother. They are plenty of talented model builders that are more than happy to accept the challenge of building one.

[Howard Cohen]

When a model manufacturer decides to make a kit, one of the criteria is the final retail price. Revell and Round2 seem to aim for the '$25-30' range. Tamiya, Moebius, Hasegawa, Fujimi, etc. aim higher in the retail price range, $40-$70. The more you pay, the more you expect, regardless of scale. The larger something is, the more it costs. Now, when you have a larger scale kit, you have more opportunity to add in more detail and more accuracy but you also have more opportunity to make bigger mistakes   Quite often, you get what you pay for   As an example - a 3D printed Chaparral body in 24th scale is about $48. In 8th scale it is almost $800!  It is accurate but I'm not spending $800 for a body  

Now, for those who are more accuracy or detail conscious, there are choices. You can make your own modifications based on your ability. You can buy aftermarket parts, lots of photoetch and resin bits available. You can pay someone else to do some of the work for you. Each one is your choice. If you are not capable of making the improvements or corrections yourself or can't afford to pay someone else, you can build it as it comes out of the box and still get a good looking model. If you know the kit is not accurate, don't buy it. The manufacturer will get the hint.

Now, if you really want to complain about the accuracy or detail level of a kit, write a letter to the kit manufacturer!  Don't tell us here. We can't change the kit  If you think the roof line on the new Moebius Ford pickup is wrong, tell Moebius   If you don't like the instructions on the Revell Mustang, tell Revell  If you don't like the Round2 re-issue, tell Round2  

As a last resort, you can always start up your own model manufacturing company.  There are lots of people who will help you with their ideas, expertise, etc. but not money  

Maybe you should remember to just build the model for fun  

 

 

 

[detailstymied]

aww  ......... not the "F" word again! this is serious business.

[Tom Geiger]

When a model manufacturer decides to make a kit, one of the criteria is the final retail price. Revell and Round2 seem to aim for the '$25-30' range. Tamiya, Moebius, Hasegawa, Fujimi, etc. aim higher in the retail price range, $40-$70

 

I leave the Japanese companies out of any comparison because it's a totally different market, kits not created under the same conditions and budgets that the US manufacturers face.   First off, the Japanese kits cost $40 plus here because they are imported and pass through several sets of hands, aka profit takers.  Take a look at Hobby Link Japan and you'll see the same kits being offered much cheaper.  

Japan is a different market!  As a country, they have many more modelers and hobbyists than we do. Somehow they never stopped building models. Thus, the companies there still have their own design staff in house, AND their sales per model are much greater than our current US market, so that design cost is spread across many more units.