Revell '29A HIGHBOY Hot Rod Roadster QuickBuild UPDATE #4 - Final Photos of Completed Kit and My Final Thoughts

[PARTS GUY]

Wow Tim that is very nice build! I have read your articles since I was kid and you were writing for Street Rodder magazine where you built a 1939 Chevy sedan delivery. Always look forward to your articles.

[mrm]

I have a question for the guys who are around street rods all the time. I guess it goes for both this kit and all the '32 Fords. When you have a triangulated rear latter bar suspension like this, do you HAVE TO have a panhard bar or the triangular geometry of the rods is enough? The reason I am asking is not to question the kit, but rather to inform myself for a future build as I have one of these on its way to me. All the pictures I have seen on the net with set up like this have leaf spring and plain shocks. And the ones that have coil overs always have a some sort of pahhard bar. I personally like the plain more modern look of Tim's built. I am just curious, would it be authentic if I leave it like that?

[Dennis Lacy]

I have a question for the guys who are around street rods all the time. I guess it goes for both this kit and all the '32 Fords. When you have a triangulated rear latter bar suspension like this, do you HAVE TO have a panhard bar or the triangular geometry of the rods is enough? The reason I am asking is not to question the kit, but rather to inform myself for a future build as I have one of these on its way to me. All the pictures I have seen on the net with set up like this have leaf spring and plain shocks. And the ones that have coil overs always have a some sort of pahhard bar. I personally like the plain more modern look of Tim's built. I am just curious, would it be authentic if I leave it like that?

Yes, the suspension in this kit and all of the Revell '32 series should absolutely have a panhard bar to be 1:1 accurate. Without it there is a gigantic lateral load put on the ladder bars which could ultimately fatigue and break them. 

The reason you can run a transverse (single across) spring with ladder bars and get away without a panhard bar is because the spring controls lateral axle loads. The spring width is shorter than the span between the shackle links so it must be stretched several inches to hook up. Being stretched puts it in tension and keeps the axle from swaying on the shackles. Same scenario for the front spring.

Good thing we're only building models! 

[Ace-Garageguy]

I have a question for the guys who are around street rods all the time. I guess it goes for both this kit and all the '32 Fords. When you have a triangulated rear latter bar suspension like this, do you HAVE TO have a panhard bar or the triangular geometry of the rods is enough? The reason I am asking is not to question the kit, but rather to inform myself for a future build as I have one of these on its way to me. All the pictures I have seen on the net with set up like this have leaf spring and plain shocks. And the ones that have coil overs always have a some sort of pahhard bar. I personally like the plain more modern look of Tim's built. I am just curious, would it be authentic if I leave it like that?

I currently build real hot-rods and customs for a living, primarily these days as a subcontractor to this company.  http://millscustoms.com/

The answer to your question depends mainly on how far apart the front mounting points for the radius arms are, how the front mounts are bushed, and how heavy and stiff the bars themselves are. In general, the farther apart the front mounts are, and the stiffer the bushings and bars, the less necessary it is to run a Panhard bar. The simple rear end setup shown below can get by without one, though it would still  be a good idea. (Actually, a Panhard bar introduces its own small lateral motion in the rear axle due to the geometry of the swinging link; it would be better, particularly in view of these very stiff links, to use a Watts-type linkage to help control lateral movement, for reduced 'bind' and more precise tracking).

But speaking of 'bind', if you think about it, the setup below is fine for letting the whole axle bump up and down to the same degree (like going over a speed bump) but because of the stiffness of the whole affair and the widely-spaced front mounts, the suspension will encounter resistance when only ONE wheel needs to go up relative to the chassis (like driving over the end of a speed-bump, with one side of the car on flat pavement). If you put the forward ends of the arms closer together, you allow more freedom for the suspension to react to bumps on only one side, or for the car to lean in a turn.

But as the front pivot points get closer together (with coil springs) the axle can tend to pivot around the mounting points in the horizontal plane, twisting and breaking things as Dennis mentions, and very importantly, allowing the car to handle erratically and unpredictably as the rear-end tries to steer the vehicle.

With the old familiar "split wishbone" geometry and a transverse leaf spring (the stock un-split geometry had both wishbones attached to each other at the front of the torque tube), you could get away without running a Panhard bar, for the reasons Dennis cited. The torque tube and the wishbones located the axle fore-and-aft, while the transverse spring located it side-to-side. But when guys lowered their cars by running long shackles, the axle could (and did) move sideways in an uncontrolled manner, making the car unstable to the point of being un-drivable. 

The first "anti-sway" bars (the term now has come to mean "anti-roll" bar, a different animal entirely) were early hot-rod applications of Panhard bars that limited and controlled side-to-side movement of the rear axle, and resulting self-steering.

The "triangulated" rear bars in favor now go back closer to the original geometry of the un-split wishbones attached to each other in front. Coil springs do very little to limit side-to-side movement of the axle  (like the old transverse spring did), or the tendency of it to pivot around the mounts, which lets the rear axle steer the vehicle in an undesirable manner.

You need a Panhard bar with a rear-end setup like the one in the Revell '29...assuming you want to do things right.

But I've seen plenty of real hot-rods built by guys with absolutely zero regard for or understanding of suspension geometry and correct design, so if you build your model lacking the right setup, it'll still be accurate somewhere.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[dartman]

Great job Tim,right color,right stance,right motor.I will take an"a" over a  deuce any day.Looks like I will need a couple of these.

[59 Buick]

Quick update for those looking to buy this kit, received news email from Model Roundup stating these are now in stock, although the site still shows coming soon.

I am looking forward to this kit arriving in Australia and seeing all the variations on this build that I am sure surface over the next few months.

Edited August 29, 2015 by 59 Buick

[mrm]

I went to my hobby shop two days ago and asked for the kit. The owner told me that they are not out yet. I had a conversation with him about it close to a week ago. So two days ago when I was in his shop, he told me that as a matter of fact he just got response from Revell the same morning. They told him that there are only about 15 kits out there that were sent to special people to review them and to magazines. I told him I heard otherwise and he got aggravated and told me I can argue all I want, but these are not out yet. I did not say anything and laughed out loud when I found my copy of the kit in the mail today. I got it from  Mark Twain Hobby Center in Saint Charles, MO, for $21. 

I would classify the kit as simply impressive. 

Edited August 30, 2015 by mrm

[tim boyd]

I went to my hobby shop two days ago and asked for the kit. The owner told me that they are not out yet. I had a conversation with him about it close to a week ago. So two days ago when I was in his shop, he told me that as a matter of fact he just got response from Revell the same morning. They told him that there are only about 15 kits out there that were sent to special people to review them and to magazines. I told him I heard otherwise and he got aggravated and told me I can argue all I want, but these are not out yet. I did not say anything and laughed out loud when I found my copy of the kit in the mail today. I got it from  Mark Twain Hobby Center in Saint Charles, MO, for $21. 

I would classify the kit as simply impressive. 

Michael....I went to the major hobby store chain in metro Detroit yesterday, Nankin Hobby.  They have three stores, I went to the one in Farmington Hills hoping they might have the kit.  BINGO!  They had five there, I bought three (leaving two for others who are looking for the kit).  The conversation with the guys behind the counter at checkout suggests that they are already well aware of the early positive feedback on the kit, which of course I added my comments to).  

I still have two on order from Spotlight Hobbies (expecting to be shipped this Wednesday), and two more from Model Cave in Ypsilanti (where I got my first kit last Thursday).

Needless to say, the channeled version is already under constuction.  

Glad to hear of your impressions of the kit.   Cheers...TIM 

[mrm]

Michael....I went to the major hobby store chain in metro Detroit yesterday, Nankin Hobby.  They have three stores, I went to the one in Farmington Hills hoping they might have the kit.  BINGO!  They had five there, I bought three (leaving two for others who are looking for the kit).  The conversation with the guys behind the counter at checkout suggests that they are already well aware of the early positive feedback on the kit, which of course I added my comments to).  

I still have two on order from Spotlight Hobbies (expecting to be shipped this Wednesday), and two more from Model Cave in Ypsilanti (where I got my first kit last Thursday).

Needless to say, the channeled version is already under constuction.  

Glad to hear of your impressions of the kit.   Cheers...TIM 

The shackles on that I-beam dropped axle and them finned brake drums are just wow. I haven't started building mine, but it will most likely be box stock highboy with more modern wheels swapped in from the '32 roadster. I am in no rush for getting more , but I will definitely be buying multiples of this kit. Just the suspension and brakes are worth the price alone, not to mention the killer engine. 

  To be 100% objective, I am just a touch disappointed in the headlight sprue attachment as it sits right on top of the headlights. This is the only "complaint" I could come up with. LOL

The only other thing, which can not be classified as a complaint at all is, when are Revell finally going to give us a quickchange rear end at this level of detail? C'mon it's just one part to remaster, that could be used in all these kits after that. 

[Bernard Kron]

The shackles on that I-beam dropped axle and them finned brake drums are just wow. I... I will definitely be buying multiples of this kit. Just the suspension and brakes are worth the price alone, not to mention the killer engine. 

  To be 100% objective, I am just a touch disappointed in the headlight sprue attachment as it sits right on top of the headlights. This is the only "complaint" I could come up with. LOL

The only other thing, which can not be classified as a complaint at all is, when are Revell finally going to give us a quickchange rear end at this level of detail? C'mon it's just one part to remaster, that could be used in all these kits after that. 

Excellent first impressions, very useful!

My rules of thumb when it comes to parts kits is "The Rule of 5's": if a kit yields the cost equivalent of 5 aftermarket parts for the price of the kit I will buy it with no anticipation of ever building the full kit. Any additional parts used is a bonus...

So many things for Revell to include in subsequent variations: q.c. rear end, stock buggy spring setup, '40 Ford style flat spring setup, hairpins, big-bolster late 40's traditional interior, flathead or Olds motor, Deuce grill shell, full hood setup, softop, etc., etc, etc. A whole new parts-kit franchise is in the offing!

And yes, manufacturers need to pay more careful attention to attachment points on the chrome trees! It shouldn't be such a major fail after more than 50 years of this stuf!

Edited August 31, 2015 by Bernard Kron

[DaveM]

I am diving into the channeled version of the kit.  I will be posting pictures soon.  (Not too interesting yet, just a bunch of sanding, trimming and filing.)  Has anybody tried fitting the interior sides into the channeled floorpan yet?  It looks like they were going to key the mounting tabs on the two sets of interior sides to their specific floorpans.  Unless I have this really screwed up, they have the tabs mixed up.  Both sets of interior panels are tabbed the same, but the floorpans are different.  The highboy setup looks like a perfect fit, and the lowboy interior panels fit nicely to the highboy floorpan, but nothing fits the channeled floorpan!   I think somebody made a boo boo doing the CADD.  I am surprised that this never came up in the test shots.  They must not have built up a test shot of the channeled "A" frame after keying the tabs.  Looks like the channeled version just became a skill level 3.5 

To advanced modelers, it's no problem.  Just file the tabs off, and grind out the end of the recess that the floorpan keys into.  It will take some extra filling, and putty too, plus I might change up the paint sequence to assemble the whole shebang first, then paint the bottom of the floorpan.  The good thing is, it doesn't hurt the look of the car at all.  It's invisible when fixed, and all of the visible stuff still looks perfect.  This is still going to be  a real hot build. 

The rest of the kit fits nicely, and has some of the best detail that Revell has molded.  Some of the parts on this kit are approaching Tamiya quality.  The motor detail is going to be sweet when built.  I am going to do this one almost box stock.  I might sneak some wiring onto the motor, just because there is no hood.  I'll decide as I go.  I will stick with the nailhead for the actual build, but I might mock it up with a couple of other motors too.  The more I work on this kit, the more I want to buy!  

[tim boyd]

 

I am having major problems replying to this thread.  But the bottom line is that the Highboy floorpan #62 is ALSO used for the lowboy/channeled version.  Part #13 is for a future version of the kit tool.

I know all versions of the kit tool were built during development, because for one, Revell retained me to do this very exercise about a year and a half ago with the first round of kit tooling.  There were no major issues at that time, and the many minor fit and quality issues identified then seem to have been completely addressed in nearly every case with the final production kit.  

It was just a mistake in the instruction sheet, not the kit itself.    

I would love to see your build if you are able to post pictures during or when you are done.  Cheers...TIM   

Edited August 30, 2015 by tim boyd

[bobthehobbyguy]

Dave M Tim pointed out in aanothrr post thatvthe part number is incorrect in the instructions and the floor pan is the same as the unchanneled.1

[DaveM]

Just looked back and saw that!  I will grab the interior panels from my second kit and start over on them!  Luckily I bought a second kit.  I was probably composing this and getting the camera fired up while Tim made his post.  (It has been a somewhat leisurely Sunday afternoon here)  Funny, I had double checked the instructions and everything before posting, so I had the posting window open for an hour and a half while I checked, double checked and then modified and photographed my parts!  I was making a tutorial on how to fix the problem...    (Gregg, we really need a "Headsmack" or "Facepalm" Icon here... or maybe a smiley in a dunce cap...) (Or maybe I'm the only one that needs that...)  

The good news is that it will be easy to decide how to build the second kit I have.  It's going to be a highboy!  

Seriously, thanks for the heads up, and I hadn't quite cut into the correct floorpan, yet, so I haven't messed up anything I didn't have a spare of.  I will now spend the evening trying to do something actually productive on the build.  At least I haven't screwed up the Nailhead, ... yet.

 

I'm still having fun with this kit!

[mike 51]

so the coupe will have bucket seats,more gauges,an automatic trans, and a different firewall (just indicated from the floor pan) and I wonder what little blister at the right rear is for?  It looks like the exhaust is routed differently and/ or the rear end will be different in the next version...

Edited August 30, 2015 by mike 51

[tim boyd]

Just looked back and saw that!  I will grab the interior panels from my second kit and start over on them!  Luckily I bought a second kit.  I was probably composing this and getting the camera fired up while Tim made his post.  (It has been a somewhat leisurely Sunday afternoon here)  Funny, I had double checked the instructions and everything before posting, so I had the posting window open for an hour and a half while I checked, double checked and then modified and photographed my parts!  I was making a tutorial on how to fix the problem...    (Gregg, we really need a "Headsmack" or "Facepalm" Icon here... or maybe a smiley in a dunce cap...) (Or maybe I'm the only one that needs that...)  

The good news is that it will be easy to decide how to build the second kit I have.  It's going to be a highboy!  

Seriously, thanks for the heads up, and I hadn't quite cut into the correct floorpan, yet, so I haven't messed up anything I didn't have a spare of.  I will now spend the evening trying to do something actually productive on the build.  At least I haven't screwed up the Nailhead, ... yet.

 

I'm still having fun with this kit!

Dave...I had a real "facepalm" moment myself earlier this afternoon....as at one point I was convinced I had built the Highboy version with the wrong floorboard.  But it didn't make sense...because everything was fitting perfectly with that model.  You can imagine the sign of relief when I figured out what the real story was.  We were probably both trying to figure it out at the same time.  Glad to know there was no permanent damage on your end....TIM    

[DaveM]

Dave...I had a real "facepalm" moment myself earlier this afternoon....as at one point I was convinced I had built the Highboy version with the wrong floorboard.  But it didn't make sense...because everything was fitting perfectly with that model.  You can imagine the sign of relief when I figured out what the real story was.  We were probably both trying to figure it out at the same time.  Glad to know there was no permanent damage on your end....TIM    

No damage here.  All three brain cells are still going strong!  I cut and ground the tabs on the channeled interior sides, and modified them to fit the #13 floor pan called out in the instructions.  It was a bit tricky, as I had to grind out the recesses in the bottom of the interior panels, and fill in the gaps in the floorboard where I had removed the tabs.  (I just used material from the cut off tabs to make plugs for the floorboards.)  I was starting to wonder if it would just be easier to take the highboy floorpan, and see how much cutting and grinding it would take to make it fit the over the transmission in the channeled frame!  Turns out, it would have taken none, because that was the floorpan I should have used in the first place!   I will just toss the other floorpan and the interior sides, as they would have no mounting tabs, and are missing a bit of plastic on the bottoms.  Luckily, I plan on building my other kit on the '32 rails and I can spare the other interior sides.

The really funny part of this is that I was kind of considering my build as a bit of a box stock review.  I was going to review the version you didn't do in a workbench thread that will start in the next day or so.  That's the only reason I even got out the instructions.  If I hadn't done that, this never would have happened.  I would have grabbed the floorpan that fit the interior sides and built away.  Now I know why real men never read instructions.  It gets us into trouble!

 

Thanks again for clearing things up.

[horsepower]

I bought 2 at the hobby shop on East Cypress last week....is that who you u asked?

Yeah, that's the place, I just called today and the new guy said "no we still don't have anything but the model T's",  not sure what he's talking about since I can't think of a new release T. But I asked for one to be put back for me three weeks ago, if they don't have mine in the back room, and have sold out I'm going to cancel the order and pick it up somewhere else. I've been a big supporter of local hobby shops because I've been an owner and my daughter and her husband tried to make one work too. But if the shop can't provide the service's there's no need to support them.

[mike 51]

Yeah, that's the place, I just called today and the new guy said "no we still don't have anything but the model T's",  not sure what he's talking about since I can't think of a new release T. But I asked for one to be put back for me three weeks ago, if they don't have mine in the back room, and have sold out I'm going to cancel the order and pick it up somewhere else. I've been a big supporter of local hobby shops because I've been an owner and my daughter and her husband tried to make one work too. But if the shop can't provide the service's there's no need to support them.

They only get 3 of each "early release" kits.I bought 2 and the 3rd was on the shelf when I left.  I don't know the staff there,but one guy is very helpful and the others aren't (as you found out) they are RC guys with little interest/knowledge in models. Getting a early release kit from them is all about timing (yours, not thiers)   I only buy from them when I want one of the early release kits....otherwise I buy on the web. If you watch these threads on new/coming releases, often an "insider" posts when to expect these kits.  This shop does get them promptly about the 3rd week of every month.  Otherwise you likely will wait about a month for the general release.  However it seems you have to check for them in person, I'm retired and live in Palo Cedro so I have time to do that.  Good luck! 

Edited August 31, 2015 by mike 51

[jbwelda]

>Otherwise you likely will wait about a month for the general release.

tower hobbies has them in stock for just under 22$ with free shipping, just fyi. no need to wait a month, you will probably have it in your hands by friday

jb

[jbwelda]

> the new guy said "no we still don't have anything but the model T's",  

dollars to donuts he meant the model A. Model A or Model T, no difference and no relevance to those under 30 pretty much.

and yeah if I had asked them to put one aside for me weeks ago, and now they claim they never arrived despite testimony to the contrary, and one is not waiting for you, that would be my last trip to that shop for quite a while.

jb

 

[mike 51]

Yep and Tower is *nearly* local for me....never have paid any shipping or sales tax there.  

But like I said, sometimes I want it "right now", so I use the local guys.

Edited August 31, 2015 by mike 51

[LDO]

Mine arrived from Tower Hobbies today. I opened it up and gave it a good look...then fell asleep. I was tired as heck. I'll have to start on it tomorrow.

[tim boyd]

See comparo photos of the completed Highboy and Channeled versions here:::http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/105015-first-detailed-look-revells-29-model-a-hot-rod-roadster/?page=7   Best Regards...TIM:

Edited September 2, 2015 by tim boyd
reposted elswhere on forum

[unclescott58]

This has been another fun and interesting thread to read. These reviews can be interesting and useful. But then again, most things started by Boyd tend to be, and continue to go that way.