Revell's old "Dream Car Turbine" engine; What IS it ??

[Ace-Garageguy]

Long shot here...I'm doing a diesel-punk project that needs a somewhat believable turbine engine, and I have a few of the 50-year-old Revell parts-pack turbines, so I decided to try to use one for the build.

I know a fair bit about turbines, and though the compressor and turbine sections are big enough to make serious power if the thing was a 1:1, the general layout is more like an old APU with a single combustion chamber. The exhaust is tiny for the length and diameter of the compressor / turbine too, and the way it exits from the housing isn't like anything I've ever seen.

I've looked at lots of photos of turbo-shaft engines from helicopters, and it doesn't look remotely like anything I found, even older Russian units. It doesn't bear any resemblance to Chrysler's experimental turbines...at least the ones I could find naked photos of...nor does it look like the unit in the Howmet car, or the Lotus Indy cars.

It looks a little like the old Rover 1s60 engine, and also a little like the Plessy Solent APU, Thing is, there are several mystery parts on the Revell engine that, again, don't really look like anything I'm familiar with. 

So, before I start re-arranging and fabbing components to make it look like it might actually work, I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone, on a wild chance, may have a clue as to what this Revell turbine is supposed to be...or if it's just an "artistic concept" with some vaguely-technical-looking parts stuck together to give the impression of something that's not piston-power.

Thanks in advance for any light you may be able to shed on this quandary.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Danno]

I never checked it out, but I always assumed it was loosely based on the Chrysler experimental turbines.  I'm surprised it's not, but, I'll take your word for it, Bill.  

Thus, I have no idea what it is.   

[Deathgoblin]

If I may make a suggestion, the works look more like a rotary engine than a turbine.  Isn't that a crankshaft with the triangular rotors in the bottom left corner?

[Ace-Garageguy]

... I always assumed it was loosely based on the Chrysler experimental turbines.  I'm surprised it's not, but, I'll take your word for it, Bill.  

Thus, I have no idea what it is.   

Thanks for your response. Even though you don't know what it is either, I appreciate your taking the time. That's what I had assumed also, and though it doesn't look like the Chrysler everyone is most familiar with, I thought it was probably based on one of the earlier non-regenerative engines. I haven't found any photos to back that up, though.

This shot shows some of the family of Chrysler's turbines, and most of them have the large circular regenerator housings on the sides. I have the Johan Turbine car kit, and that's the engine represented in it too.

The AMT Amtronic has 3 turbines in it, one of which is a nicely scaled-down (about 1/2 the size of Chrysler's, but the same basic layout) version of the last Chrysler unit. The other two in that kit have multiple annular combustion chambers like some older jets. That's also a design I recognize.

Guess I'll keep digging.

[Ace-Garageguy]

If I may make a suggestion, the works look more like a rotary engine than a turbine.  Isn't that a crankshaft with the triangular rotors in the bottom left corner?

No, it's an external combustion chamber, but I see how it could look like it might be a crank or eccentric shaft in that photo. 

Assembled, the engine does somewhat resemble turbines with a single external combustion chamber, like the Rover 1s60, but with the components rearranged.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Scott Colmer]

Hey Bill,

Here are a couple pics of one I put together. It was a challenge to see how it assembled. The instructions are not great.

I looked on line and could not find much as far a wiring and detail so I used the instructions and online shots of other turbines to fake it. I really just wanted to go for interest. The good news is no one will know if it is right. Oh - It's a pretty big engine once it is finished. I was surprised.

Hosted on Fotki

 

Hosted on Fotki

I did a little looking too. The Rover looks close. Perhaps this blogger can help you:

 

http://peakpower.pondlucier.com/peakpower/blog/page/4/

 

Good luck. I'll look for your post.

 

Scott

Edited January 27, 2016 by Scott Colmer

[Ace-Garageguy]

Thanks Scott ! You're installation and wild (I assume it's a wrecker) design look great. Really like your air intake filter, and the realistic finishes you've got on the turbine unit.

Thanks for the blog link too. I came across that one during my research, but it didn't occur to me to try to contact the blogger. Great idea. 

[Scott Colmer]

No problem Bill. I will watch to see what you find out. It is such an intricate an detailed design, it has to be modeled form somewhere. I wonder if there are any Revell OGs that might know.

 

I dug around my photos and found a pic of the engine before it was put in the car.

The air filter I added may be in the wrong place. That square flange on the right may be an intake. I also omitted the line the runs between the two disks on the left. 

 

Hosted on Fotki

 

Best regards,

[Ace-Garageguy]

Thanks again. If it works like what it looks like it's supposed to be, the little square flange on the right should be the air intake for the external combustion chamber (though the horrible instructions show the "spark housing" gets located there...which makes no sense) and the 6 big holes on the end would be the main intake for the compressor stage.

I've found pix of the things the instructions call out as "fuel control cap" and "fuel line assembly" on some early turbines, but the instructions show them, again, in mostly nonsensical places.

I think you've done the best possible job of building this little engine based on what's there and the poor instructions.

[Deathgoblin]

Wow!  Okay, yeah, that makes more sense.  It looks more like a jet engine than the Chrysler version did.  Neat!  

[Ace-Garageguy]

Well then. On a kinda wild hair (or wild hare, since I'm going down another internet rabbit hole...) I did a Google image search for "turbine APU" (auxiliary-power-unit, commonly used as part of the starting system for some aircraft, etc.) and I got a ton of hits that look a LOT more like the Revell engine than what I had earlier. Still no exact match, but possibly closer...

For instance, this BMW T-312 has the compressor inlet on the end, and the general shape is the same. (This little turbine is used as the APU on the Panavia Tornado) This one differs from the Revell unit though, as it has the relatively huge exhaust port you'd expect on a turbine. It's also a MUCH newer design than the Revell engine could possibly be.

 

Edited January 27, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[aurfalien]

Wow Scott, your work is incredible!!!

I checked your Fotki album, dooooood total kill.  I'm stoked!

[Ace-Garageguy]

Another one that's visually similar...sorta...

[Modlguy]

If I recall correctly, several years ago at one of the GSL's the late great Bob Paeth mentioned that they were just hip-shooting when they designed that tool. Not that it was just made up from whole cloth but some of the parts were thrown on because they looked right but weren't necessarily "real". Now, he may have just been just playing around with us at the time but I think that engine might have been a bit of a what-if since there wasn't much technology back then.  

[Ace-Garageguy]

If I recall correctly, several years ago at one of the GSL's the late great Bob Paeth mentioned that they were just hip-shooting when they designed that tool. Not that it was just made up from whole cloth but some of the parts were thrown on because they looked right but weren't necessarily "real". Now, he may have just been just playing around with us at the time but I think that engine might have been a bit of a what-if since there wasn't much technology back then.  

Thank you sir !!  That's kind of what I was thinking. It looks sort of like several turbines, but has some stuff on it that makes no sense whatsoever from a correct-function standpoint. 

Rover's Jet-1 turbine car was built in '49-'50, and both Chrysler and GM were also experimenting with turbines in vehicles in the 1950s, so it seemed logical to assume Revell's kit was a reasonable representation of one of those earlier engines. 

At this point, I'm pretty well convinced it's not based on anything real, but rather a designer's "interpretation" of a turbine, where the designer had no technical knowledge of how a turbine actually worked.

Thanks again for chiming in here. I think I'll end the search at this point, and just modify the kit engine to look more-or-less correct. It IS a good starting place for that. 

[Scott Colmer]

Ahhh ... Thanks to brining a source into it, Bill B. I wondered. 

Please be sure to post your project, Ace. I'll be looking for it. 

That was a fun search.

By the way, my turbine search led me to some interesting stuff including someone's instagram of the Indy museum. Some really cool stuff there. Did you know that Carrol Shelby had a couple Turbine Indy cars lined up to race but pulled them when rumors started going around that they had secret adjustable intake areas. He packed up and left before the techs could get to him. Good story. Neat cars. They look a lot like the STP side engine turbines.

 

Scott

 

[Casey]

I hope to be able to provide some in progress and completed assembly images semi-soon. ?

[Casey]

Non-shrink wrapped packaging, same parts number: