Hot Rod Wheel Question

[Snake45]

You know the custom mag or mag-ish wheels in the Rad Rod issue of the Revell '29 Ford pickup? They're 5-spokers but are 16" or more in diameter, same as the more traditional A-rod wheels in the kit.

Are those based on a real wheel? More specifically, would they be period-correct for early to mid-'60s? I can't recall seeing any wheels like that (mags that large in diameter) on a real car, ever. I'm doing a '29 roadster based somewhere in the 1962-66 timeframe and would like to use those (with the spokes painted black) if they're historically correct for the era. If they're not, I'll just go with the kit's open wheels painted black.

[Ace-Garageguy]

If I remember right, Romeo Palamides (became American Racing) introduced a line of cast-alloy wheels, including 16" ones, in 1956 (I have a magazine here with an ad for them, including 16" diameter). The first ones were solid centers, built on patterns made by Rolla Vollstedt. By '57, Palamides had modified the patterns and spokes were coming in, still available as 16-inchers. A LOT of tires were available still in that diameter, so it's realistic to assume mags would be built to fit them. 15" became the norm fairly quickly though, and the 16s were phased out by mag-wheel makers.

This is a shot from the October '57 Hot Rod mag, with early Palamides 4-slots. These look like 15s, but it's hard to say for sure. Slicks were definitely available in a 16" diameter, as many were recaps, molded on production car carcasses.

American introduced their signature 5-spoke in 1960.

I know this isn't a definitive answer to your specific question, but it gives sufficient background to have a believable story to go with your model.

EDIT: Here you go. Note the small-print "other sizes of 15" and 16" wheels also available".

If American Racing was making wheels in 16" diameters, it's a pretty good bet the competition was making them too.

 

Edited March 13, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Spex84]

Those mags also struck me as being too large in diameter. They do however look a bit like Radirs, so they'd go well on a neo-traditional build...for instance, a slammed pickup with watson-style panel paint.

[Can-Con]

They look just like the mags that were originally in the kit when it was first made back in the '60s so I'd think they'd be correct for that time period.

[Draggon]

They look like vintage Studebaker Halibrands, just larger, so I think they would work.

[Can-Con]

I think we're all talking about different wheels here.

The mag wheels in my copy of the Revell '29 rat rod pickup look like early narrow torque thrusts.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Can-Con

[Ace-Garageguy]

First version...

Later version...

...which appear to be the same ones on the chrome tree in this rat Rod version...

The "Studebaker" / Halibrands were featured on the '30-'31 panels...

   ...first appearing as the optional wheels in this kit (below)...

 

Edited March 13, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Snake45]

I think we're all talking about different wheels here.

The mag wheels in my copy of the Revell '29 rat rod pickup look like early narrow torque thrusts.

Yes, those are the ones. And, as someone said, they also look a little like Radirs at first glance, probably due to their shallowness.

I can see them maybe on a modern "traditional style" rod, or even a modern rat rod, but I'm building the model as if the car were built/driven in the early/mid-60s.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I guess it didn't occur to anyone else to measure the wheels in the kit.

The fronts in my issue measure out to be roughly 15" diameter. The rears measure out to be over 17".

17" is just flat wrong for an early '60s car.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Can-Con]

Yes, those are the ones. And, as someone said, they also look a little like Radirs at first glance, probably due to their shallowness.

I can see them maybe on a modern "traditional style" rod, or even a modern rat rod, but I'm building the model as if the car were built/driven in the early/mid-60s.

Snake, I found a copy of the instructions on the DPMCC site that are copyright 1965. They have the same mags featured in that issue of the kit. They call them "American racing wheels" on the sheet. 

So, I'd have to say, yes , they were correct for the mid '60s time period.

Here's a link to the sheet.

http://public.fotki.com/drasticplasticsmcc/mkiba-build-under-c/instruction_sheetsh/instruction_sheets/revell-5/revell-29-ford-mode/ 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Measure 'em, divide by 25. Get a factual answer that doesn't rely on opinion or possibly incorrect scaling by the manufacturer.

Just a thought. 

Edited March 13, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Can-Con]

Well Bill,, I guess you bother because you love us and just want the best for us. but I see you changed your reply while I was cutting my wheels off the sprue and measuring them. 

 

Mine measure out to about 17.5 mm. All four of mine are the same size. 

 

They fit perfectly in the whitewall inserts for the tires provided.  

[Can-Con]

Ya know, I just had a wild idea. If that extra 2 millimetres is that important but Snake wanted to use the wheels he could just sand 1 millimetre off the outside edge of the rim. There's plenty of plastic there to work with. Then it would be close to 15" in scale.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Can-Con

[Ace-Garageguy]

 It's interesting that Revell changed the tooling, apparently multiple times. The first-issue wheels are 15" and different from the "Sundance" issue (which are staggered), and you guys' rat-rod issues are different again, being all the same size.

I'm sure I have some good-looking '60s 5-spoke 15" mags I'd be happy to send Snake, if he needs them.  

[afx]

Not sure how everyone is measuring their wheels, but be aware that the outside bead of a 15" wheel should measure more than 15".  For instance the outside bead of the 15" wheels on my 1:1 truck actually measure 16-3/8".  The outside bead on the 17" wheels on my 1:1 car actually measure 18-1/2".

Edited March 14, 2016 by afx

[Snake45]

Measure 'em, divide by 25.

Wouldn't I be better off multiplying them by 25?

Just measured them. All four of mine are .690 in diameter, which multiplies out to 17.25".

[Snake45]

Ya know, I just had a wild idea. If that extra 2 millimetres is that important but Snake wanted to use the wheels he could just sand 1 millimetre off the outside edge of the rim. There's plenty of plastic there to work with. Then it would be close to 15" in scale.

Well then they wouldn't fit the kit tires, which I'm trying to use.

[Snake45]

I'm sure I have some good-looking '60s 5-spoke 15" mags I'd be happy to send Snake, if he needs them.  

Appreciate the offer, but I also have plenty of other wheels. I'm trying to use these, if I can get away with it. The whole theme of this particular build is to see what I can make out of a bunch of parts I have on hand that I wouldn't or won't ever use on anything else. For example, at this point it looks like I'll be using the Studebaker V8 from the AMT '53 kit, just 'cause it's different and weird and what else will I ever use it for? (Looks like I'll be scratch-bashing a dual carb manifold for it, too.)

[Ace-Garageguy]

Wouldn't I be better off multiplying them by 25?

Only if you want the right answer. 

[Spex84]

I'm just squinting at the various pics in this thread, but I don't think the wheels in the Rat Rod issue are the same as the Sundance issue (for instance, the Rat Rod mags are all the same diameter and offset)...they DO, however, look like the originals (Red truck box art issue), which are meant to depict early American mags. The chrome threw me off; at first, I thought "ech, these look like cragars, forget it"...but once stripped and painted grey/raw finish they're quite convincing.

The Sundance wheels...I don't have any in my stash, but judging from the box art they look a lot like Astro 5-spoke mags, similar to the ones on the Kassa coupe:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_eAv_6n_Gzlg/S06qwK0kTAI/AAAAAAAABP0/q2MoQCvE2Ek/s400/Holly.jpg

[Snake45]

Snake, I found a copy of the instructions on the DPMCC site that are copyright 1965. They have the same mags featured in that issue of the kit. They call them "American racing wheels" on the sheet. 

So, I'd have to say, yes , they were correct for the mid '60s time period.

Here's a link to the sheet.

http://public.fotki.com/drasticplasticsmcc/mkiba-build-under-c/instruction_sheetsh/instruction_sheets/revell-5/revell-29-ford-mode/ 

Thanks for that link. I don't think the wheels/tires in the Rat Rod kit are the same as these. The tires might be all new. They're big-and-little tall skinnies, with whitewall inserts, similar in size to those in the newer Revell 29A kit but not the same tires. The other wheels in the Rad Rod are open steels, with separate trim rings and hubcaps, not the spokers of the original.

It's possible that the "Americans" of the original kit were reworked with a larger rim to fit the 17" tires. They're so shallow they almost look like those cheap fake mag wheel covers you could get back in the day, but the hub and lug nuts are more detailed than that.

I think I'm gonna paint the spokes black and see how they look. I'll be painting those whitewall inserts black, too. The whole thing might look pretty cool, even if "wrong." But I think I'll also be painting out the steelies for backup.

The "story" of this car is that it was a rod built by someone in the late '50s or early '60s, and now after a few years of storage/disuse, has been resurrected by a kid as a "high school hot rod" somewhere in the 1965-67 timeframe. The car is definitely out of style, but the kid loves it anyway and it making do with it on a limited budget (hence the Studebaker engine). Or something like that.

[Jon Haigwood]

Not sure how everyone is measuring their wheels, but be aware that the outside bead of a 15" wheel should measure more than 15".  For instance the outside bead of the 15" wheels on my 1:1 truck actually measure 16-3/8".  The outside bead on the 17" wheels on my 1:1 car actually measure 18-1/2".

My thoughts also 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Jon Haigwood

[Ace-Garageguy]

Excellent points a couple of you make about the right way to measure a rim, but the problem, in my experience, is that's an area the kit manufacturers seem to be all over the board on, and it's sometimes almost pointless to try to second-guess what they intended. Very few of the kit tires I have will fit rims from other manufacturers, no matter what scale diameter they're 'supposed' to be in 1:1.

I've taken to simply measuring the OD of kit rims and subtracting a scale inch or so. There are some models where getting that last 1/2 millimeter makes a visual difference, and some where it doesn't.

Snake...I have one of those Caddy 4-carb parts-pack intakes and the carbs if you want them also, and a set of three-port short headers from the same kit. Let me know. 

[Snake45]

Snake...I have one of those Caddy 4-carb parts-pack intakes and the carbs if you want them also, and a set of three-port short headers from the same kit. Let me know. 

Thanks for the offer, but I'm gonna try to do this thing with unwanted/unloved parts on hand.

Did some research and it looks like the "old school hot rod steelies" were 16". Combined with the information above about measuring wheels, I'd say that 16" wheels is what Revell was going for here.

So maybe somebody did make some oddball 16" "mags" back in the day. As I said, I'll paint the spokes black and see what they look like on the model. I can always fall back on the steelies with the trim rings, a timeless look.

[Ace-Garageguy]

So maybe somebody did make some oddball 16" "mags" back in the day. 

 Ain't no "maybe" about it. Look at the late '50s-early '60s American Racing ad I posted above. It clearly states "16".