Unleaded15... is this stuff any good?

[Harry P.]

So glad you dinna call 'em "mechanics". 

Is "mechanic" now politically incorrect?

Like stewardesses are now "flight attendants" and waitresses are now "servers?"

[slusher]

Easy answer. It'll run fine until it doesn't. 

Would you use it, Bill???

[slusher]

Is "mechanic" now politically incorrect?

Like stewardesses are now "flight attendants" and waitresses are now "servers?"

Garbage men are also called sanitation engineers   

[Ace-Garageguy]

Is "mechanic" now politically incorrect?

No, mechanics are an endangered species. I can count the ones I know on one hand. Plenty of techs though...and they ALL have no clue. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

 I still want to know if I can use the stuff!

Personally, I wouldn't...........until you have to!

 

Steve

[Muncie]

no...

Ford knew when they wrote the manual that the EPA would be pushing and probably mandating gasoline blends with more ethanol.  Ford knows the materials that your car was built with and 10% is the max -  they kind of want happy customers and are telling you straight.  Newer cars are built for the E15 when it becomes mandatory... Older classics/vintage cars are built for zero ethanol.  Ethanol has less energy content than gasoline - so it takes more to go the same distance  - so that is reduced fuel economy,  It has higher octane (see Bill's good words on resistance to detonation) which has some benefit if you want to rebuild he engine to raise the compression ratio or add a supercharger... It attracts water which is why it can be so damaging in older fuels systems with material like aluminum, steel, zinc, and other materials that were not made for it...   And it is a good solvent in an old fuel system so it loosens all the crud and corrosion.. The poor carburetor doesn't have a chance.  I'm hoping additives are a benefit in an old fuels system, but no direct experience yet.

I see there are 6 new replies since I started drafting this so it may be a repeat by now..

Edited May 18, 2016 by Muncie

[1972coronet]

Less available BTU's = worse fuel economy . Ethanol-blended fuels are absolute trash .

[Muncie]

Less available BTU's = worse fuel economy . Ethanol-blended fuels are absolute trash .

I get 27-28 MPG on Oregon Ethanol gas (10%), it jumps to 30-32 in Montana - I like Montana

[ranma]

Harry, stright up answer: DONT USE IT! Fox news, USA Today and AAA all claim it will damage your car! Just google don't use e-15 gasoline.

Edited May 18, 2016 by ranma

[slusher]

No, mechanics are an endangered species. I can count the ones I know on one hand. Plenty of techs though...and they ALL have no clue. 

Bill, would you put in say Harry's 07 mustang or my wife's 08 Pontiac??

[Harry P.]

Harry, stright up answer: DONT USE IT! Fox news, USA Today and AAA all claim it will damage your car!

Yeah, I saw all those reports when I was googling this stuff earlier today.

What I really don't understand is that if this stuff can damage so many cars, why is it being sold? Isn't this just opening up a huge can of worms of lawsuits down the road?

[ranma]

More money for the dealers to repair Or force you to buy a new car!

[Ace-Garageguy]

Bill, would you put in say Harry's 07 mustang or my wife's 08 Pontiac??

At the moment, I don't have enough information. I do have access to the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) library, but I really don't have the time to research it to be in a position to make a definitive statement. 

I would probably run it in my old truck that's simple enough to fix by the side of the road. I would NOT run it in anything late-model EFI until I researched it thoroughly and read every SAE paper ever written on it.

[Ace-Garageguy]

.What I really don't understand is that if this stuff can damage so many cars, why is it being sold? Isn't this just opening up a huge can of worms of lawsuits down the road?

Where did you get the novel idea that we live in a society where possible consequences of actions are considered BEFORE doing something?

Geez, Harry.

[wku88]

Again, the question isn't about non-ethanol gas. My car runs fine on the 10% ethanol mix all the stations in my area sell.

My question is will it also run fine on 15% ethanol?

Yes, it will run fine. You will see a slight decrease in fuel mileage, but it will run ok. Your engine's computer will make sure of that.

[Harry P.]

At the moment, I don't have enough information. I do have access to the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) library, but I really don't have the time to research it to be in a position to make a definitive statement. 

I would probably run it in my old truck that's simple enough to fix by the side of the road. I would NOT run it in anything late-model EFI until I researched it thoroughly and read every SAE paper ever written on it.

See, now, there's another problem. The government claims that it has done extensive research... and that's why the EPA says ok to use in any post-2001 vehicle. But then again, the government claimed that if you liked your doctor, you could keep your doctor. So much for government claims...

[Harry P.]

Where did you get the novel idea that we live in a society where possible consequences of actions are considered BEFORE doing something?

Geez, Harry.

Sorry. How stupid of me.

[slusher]

Yeah, I saw all those reports when I was googling this stuff earlier today.

What I really don't understand is that if this stuff can damage so many cars, why is it being sold? Isn't this just opening up a huge can of worms of lawsuits down the road?

Ethanol is going to be pushed to the max and all of the damage to the environment is still not known...

[Harry P.]

Ethanol is going to be pushed to the max and all of the damage to the environment is still not known...

Funny thing is, the gas station has pamphlets saying how this new 15% mix causes less pollution and emissions.

[charlie8575]

Funny thing is, the gas station has pamphlets saying how this new 15% mix causes less pollution and emissions.

Sure it does, after it burns out probably 1/2-3/4 of the cars it gets put into and people get forced into buying new cars.

If anyone should be sued, it's the EPA, but sovereign immunity has seen to that never happening.

Charlie Larkin

[Ace-Garageguy]

In my admittedly jaded and cynical opinion, i believe the whole alcohol-fuel deal is one huge CYA scheme, intended to LOOK like the Fed and EPA are actually doing something while the reality is that they're desperately trying to AVOID doing anything that might turn out to be the wrong thing.

Like I said, typical CYA, on a massive scale.

Fuel alcohol from corn is a retard game. Last time I looked at numbers I believed, it still took MORE energy to make corn-based alcohol fuel than you get from it.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry P.]

But all the corn growers here in Illinois and Iowa just love it...

[SfanGoch]

Funny thing is, the gas station has pamphlets saying how this new 15% mix causes less pollution and emissions.

Of course. Your car c raps out because the engine is verkakte; therefore, you no longer produce pollution and can get a bicycle to get around.

More pollutants are expelled by a single volcanic eruption than the combined efforts of every human on this planet. If it was possible, EPA would fine volcanos..

Edited May 18, 2016 by SfanGoch

[SfanGoch]

But all the corn growers here in Illinois and Iowa just love it...

Yeah, and I like inexpensive Prime Rib and Porterhouse!

[Ace-Garageguy]

This essentially reflects my opinion on corn-ethanol as fuel. I admit I'm not current...this is a 2001 article. Things MAY have changed (but I doubt by much).

Ethanol fuel from corn faulted as 'unsustainable subsidized food burning' in analysis by Cornell scientist

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2001/08/ethanol-corn-faulted-energy-waster-scientist-says

 

NOTE: I think alcohol fuel produced from WASTE biomass (and employing waste industrial heat that's normally dumped into the atmosphere to distill it) has tremendous potential, and I was involved with a pilot program that used SOLAR stills to refine alcohol to fuel-grade in the early 1980s. Two very logical and promising technologies we don't hear much about.

Hmmmm. Logical. KILL IT! KILL IT DEAD!!!

Edited May 18, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy