Nicest 4 banger; your thoughts.

[aurfalien]

Hi,

I recently posted about nicest Offy in 1/25 form.

I thought to expand this to actual 1:1 and would love to hear this communities opinions on superlative inline 4s.

Thus far, my list;

Ford Cosworth BDA found here;

https://www.google.com/search?q=ford+cosworth+bda&biw=1440&bih=733&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3u8_NmYjRAhXMTSYKHRRDDU4Q_AUIBigB#imgrc=duZHlaQQ7hl6eM%3A

Offenhauser Indy found here;

https://www.google.com/search?q=offenhauser+indy&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwia05zumYjRAhVCSCYKHQ4PAeEQ_AUICSgC&biw=1440&bih=733#imgrc=UrjdbJZ1oRW5tM%3A

Fiat / Abarth Tipo 236 Straight 4 found in 69' Abarth 2000 Scorpione concept found here;

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/img/Abarth-2000-Pininfarina-Scorpione-47358.html

 

The last one being most awesome in my opinion!

Edited December 22, 2016 by aurfalien

[afx]

Here is what I managed with the BDA with some scratch building and kit bashing.

 

[aurfalien]

OMG was this the Mini Exotics BDA?

Looks amazing regardless, WOW!

[Junkman]

Alfa Romeo Twin Cam.

[Ace-Garageguy]

 

I thought to expand this to actual 1:1 and would love to hear this communities opinions on superlative inline 4s.

For real (production) engines, I'd have to include the little Honda B16 / B18 series. It's capable of making incredible, almost unbelievable amounts of power. The stock bottom end is good to somewhere around 300HP, and I've seen these engines dyno at close to 700 (supercharged / turboed of course...and longevity kinda fades at those power levels...).

Along with the Alfa mentioned above, another truly great Italian engine was the Fiat 124 twincam, based on the 124 pushrod bottom end. Though maligned over here (mostly because people neglected to change the toothed rubber timing belts when they were due) these engines were very well engineered and built, the materials were very good, and again, they were capable of making big power and staying together. Introduced in 1966, they remained in production in various displacements for 34 years, and had some impressive racing victories.

We ran a little Abarth 750cc D-Sports Racing car in SCCA back in the early '70s. The twincam engine in it was based on the Fiat 600 block and crank designs. The thing didn't start to make power until about 7000 RPM, and it would keep on pulling to well past 10,000. The block was cast steel. Not cast iron...cast steel. And this tiny engine was fed by a pair of two-barrel Weber sidedraft carbs.

I'm also a fan of the old Ford SOHC 2-liter. I ran a Pinto with one of these, twin-40DCOE-Weber-carbed, cammed, headered and balanced, and the thing seemed to be just about unbreakable.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[stitchdup]

For real (production) engines, I'd have to include the little Honda B16 / B18 series. It's capable of making incredible, almost unbelievable amounts of power. The stock bottom end is good to somewhere around 300HP, and I've seen these engines dyno at close to 700 (supercharged / turboed of course...and longevity kinda fades at those power levels...).

Along with the Alfa mentioned above, another truly great Italian engine was the Fiat 124 twincam, based on the 124 pushrod bottom end. Though maligned over here (mostly because people neglected to change the toothed rubber timing belts when they were due) these engines were very well engineered and built, the materials were very good, and again, they were capable of making big power and staying together. Introduced in 1966, they remained in production in various displacements for 34 years, and had some impressive racing victories.

We ran a little Abarth 750cc D-Sports Racing car in SCCA back in the early '70s. The twincam engine in it was based on the Fiat 600 block and crank designs. The thing didn't start to make power until about 7000 RPM, and it would keep on pulling to well past 10,000. The block was cast steel. Not cast iron...cast steel. And this tiny engine was fed by a pair of two-barrel Weber sidedraft carbs.

I'm also a fan of the old Ford SOHC 2-liter. I ran a Pinto with one of these, twin-40DCOE-Weber-carbed, cammed, headered and balanced, and the thing seemed to be just about unbreakable.

I gotta agree on that one, I had one in a four door euro mk2 escort and it just would not die no matter how much it was beat on, but then that may be why it was the same block used in the cosworth turbos. I also like the vauxhall/opel/holden 2lirtes from the early til late 90's, especially when they have the saab conversion, and the honda vtec is pretty cool too. I don't have any experience of the nissan or toyota 2 litres but given they're popular with the import guys they must be pretty good too. But being being a vw fan boy their 1.8 mk3 golf gti is my fav, I had one bored to around 2l on twin carbs and it just seemed to have power for days. I didn't do any of the engine work other than add the carbs but I suspect it had other work done before I got it but it was still a strong engine and I am still harrasing the guy that has it now to sell it back (I think he's starting to get sick of me now, lol)

[Erik Smith]

Toyota 22R? I think my 1984 had about 110 hp, but they are soooo reliable. If something does wear out, they are easy to work on and parts are cheap and plentiful! I replaced the timing chain (no belt, in fact you get a double chain) in my car port with literally a handful of tools.  Pretty boring choice though, and I don't think it's ever been in kit form - 20R and up to fuel injected. 

Kit wise, I have two Hobby Design kits, and they are beautiful...

Edited December 23, 2016 by Erik Smith
Huh, can't upload photos...

[Ace-Garageguy]

Toyota 22R? I think my 1984 had about 110 hp, but they are soooo reliable...

Yes, I agree with that one. Excellent engine. When I had the fleet service company, one of my clients had a fleet of 60-odd vehicles, a mix of Rangers and little Yotyto, Isuzu and Mitsubishi trucks.

The Toyos were hands-down the most bulletproof of the bunch (the drivers were mostly teens with zero respect for the vehicles, and they really abused all of them)...and the Toyos all ran the 22R.

And that is the main reason I've recommended to an old friend who now needs a small old 4wd that she look at Toyota.

[drball]

What I liked on my 22 R was the little knob as a part of the distributor that allowed you the ability to adjust the timing without having to loosen the base.

 

[o-man]

I agree with Bill on the Honda B, H, and K-series motors.  Might be a little biased since I have a B16 powered CRX with about 175 normally aspirated whp.  Also agree on the bulletproof 22R's and RE's.  Wasn't the Ford 2.3L a punched out version of the 2L?

[Ace-Garageguy]

  Wasn't the Ford 2.3L a punched out version of the 2L?

Yes and no. The 2.3-2.5 "Lima" series of engines were based on the German-designed "EAO" 2.0 engine. There are a lot of differences, like the position of the distributor and oil filter, valve-train oiling system, etc.

I never tried to do much with the 2.3/2.5 engines, as my first impression of them was that they were all cleverly disguised boat anchors (but my impression at the time was surely based on the early smog-compliant (1974) engines with retarded ignition timing and a host of related drivability issues, and gutless performance generally.

I'm sure the 2.3 can make plenty of power now that they're all too old to be subject to the smog police in most jurisdictions.

[Daddyfink]

I am biased toward Nissan, especially the SR series. Not much needed to make tons of power

 

[Aaronw]

There are actually a lot of good performance four cylinder engines, it's just that many fixate on the large displacement V8s. Turbo 4s were giving the gutted, smog / fuel consumption compliant V-8s of the 1980s a good run for performance. Of course there are a lot of great 4 cylinders doing what they do best, be lightweight, reliable and sip gas, but I don't think most are looking for those here.

 

Don't forget the Ford 2.3 liter used in the Pinto was later equipped with a turbo for use in the Merkur XR4Ti, Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and Mustang SVO where the final versions reached 200 hp and provided more power than the factory stock 5.0 V-8s. The 4 cyl SVO was the hottest Mustang available in the mid to late 80s. 

Volvo's 2.1 to 2.3 liter "red block" is legendary for its durability and ease of repair. It is not at all uncommon to find original engines still running well with 500,000+ miles on them. The non-turbos peaked at around 114hp, but the turbo versions in the late 80s were reaching 160-190 hp in stock form which was pretty respectable power for the time. 1983-85 Volvo offered a limited production (500 / year) evolution version of the 242 to allow them to compete in the European Touring car Championship. These cars made 300hp from a worked over redblock.

Today enthusiasts are tweaking these engines to get 200-250hp, and heavily worked over examples nudging 400hp are out there. Not bad for a car that takes styling cues from Frigidaire.

 

Edited December 23, 2016 by Aaronw

[afx]

OMG was this the Mini Exotics BDA?

Looks amazing regardless, WOW!

The Mini Exotics BDA is a resin copy of the engine that came in the ESCI Ford Escort kit.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Another real gem is the little Ford 105E / 116E "Kent" and all its derivations. Widely used from 1959 through 1983 in production English Fords, it was also the 1600cc pushrod engine delivered in early Pintos over here. Many saw service as Formula Ford, Formula Junior and Formula 3 racing engines, as well as in many other classes. I had a 1340cc variant in a Super 7 with a crossflow Cosworth-modified pushrod head that was pretty quick, and the later Lotus twincam engine was also based on this bottom end. Cosworth developed a 4-valve head for it for Formula 2, and the engine eventually morphed into the Cosworth FVA, which spawned in turn the development of the Cosworth 3-litre V8 Formula One DFV engine design...which shares some major dimensions with the lowly 105E...like the bore spacing. The Cosworth BDA is another development of the basic design.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[disabled modeler]

As far as for any kits with them I always liked the Revell Mickey Thompson slant 4 cyl engine myself.  For 1 to 1 real ones the Toyota 22R is a great little engine for what it is was very reliable.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I am biased toward Nissan, especially the SR series. Not much needed to make tons of power

...Which reminds me of another great one, the Nissan L-16 / L-18. Essentially a 240Z engine missing two cylinders, it was derived from an earlier Mercedes design and was as strong and reliable as a brick.

Well known for its racing successes too.   

Edited December 23, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Kennyboy]

Since the 1st build of the Lancer Evolution 1 the 4g63 is right up there at the top of the 4 cylinder pile.

I do agree with Jesse about the sr20det though. 800-1000 hp is attainable out of either engine......500-600 hp on stock internals.

[Impalow]

...Which reminds me of another great one, the Nissan L-16 / L-18. Essentially a 240Z engine missing two cylinders, it was derived from an earlier Mercedes design and was as strong and reliable as a brick.

Well known for its racing successes too.   

Have to agree with that 100%    I absolutely love the L-series engines! Through my form-able years (birth-14yo)  my dad ran a datsun 510 in both GT4 (GTL now) and ITC. There is something about the sound of those engines, its amazing and still gives me chills, you could stand in the infield and hear the car all the way around the track.   We also had a couple of wagons we would run through the woods making trails by knocking over trees, we would drive it until it over heated,  let it sit for an hour then go back and keep playing.

I personally have become slightly partial to the Dodge Neon/ SRT4  2.0/2.4 engine.. I have a few, and they are interesting modern engines. There are a couple options of bell housings that allow them to be dropped into rwd cars as well. 

Here is the 3d printed/scratchbuilt one i did for my tuner cuda project:

[Eshaver]

I'm partial to Revell's 1930 Model A Woody- Rick up . It dosen't take a lot of detail to really spark this old kit to life ...

[aurfalien]

Wow some bad a$$ posts for sure.

I've always been partial to inline 4's and preferred them over V6.  In my limited tuner experience, the V6 seemed a crappy out of balance engine but I digress.  But like I said, not much extended experience to have messed with a naturally well behaved V6.  I think a flat 6 is awesome however.

My vote goes to the Offy though in terms of looks and performance for its day.

With today's crazy ignition systems, I bet you can really pump out ponies from an Offy.

[Daddyfink]

I do miss my Datsun L-18 with dual Mikuni carbs. That was a workhorse of an engine. 

This is the Paul Newman version

 

[Daddyfink]

The L Series Nissan engines where quite flexible and many aftermarket and factory items where made for them. Like twin cam conversions. 

[Impalow]

I do miss my Datsun L-18 with dual Mikuni carbs. That was a workhorse of an engine. 

This is the Paul Newman version

 

Yes!   Here was one of ours this was a 2.0... If you follow Datsun 510 fandom, this is the car we sold on eBay, that ended up being Taz Harvey's car for the LaCarerra Panamerica.

we still have the wagon, and the 4dr...

[om617]

The Honda B and K and F series are great engines,the ultimate 4 banger in stock form would be the S2000 engine.

Toyota makes some great N/A four bangers,example the 4AGE 20valve.

The BMW S13 and the Mercedes 2,3 16v (European version) & 2,5 16v are also great fun to drive.

I`m partly biased owning the 2,5 16v myself. It range from 204hp (194 kat) to 380-400 in race trim.

Offenhauser is great engine,also really good looking. Ford BDA the same,and lot`s of racing pedigree.