we may be saying goodbye to Mercury

[bobss396]

Mercury used to be a "testing ground" for new product features. Something would come out on the Mercury one year, the next year it would be spread down into the Ford line. I always thought of them as a sportier more of a performance car as compared to the Fords, but they have lost some muscle through evolution.

My wife drives a Grand Marquis, it goes like a scalded dog for a big car. The Milans are nice cars, I checked them out when I was car shopping earlier recently. It would be a shame to see them go, but that seems to be the way of the automotive world lately.

Chrysler did have an over-saturated line with a lot of overlap, I had said that as far back as the 1970s. Mercury is not nearly as bad by far, they're just not able to adapt with what the consumer wants to buy NOW. Their investment into the SUV market was bad timing. If Mercury has to be the sacrificial lamb to keep Lincoln going, I'd have no problem with that.

Bob

[MrObsessive]

American cars just aint what they used to be...

You ain't kiddin'!

I really wish the American car designer would be a little more daring with their designs than always trying to "play it safe".

We sure could use the likes of Harley Earl, or a Bill Mitchell these days! I really miss the days when it didn't take 6 or 7 years to redesign what was already an ugly car (name your poison) only to screw it up even further.

GM seems to be getting a handle on style once again lately................I do like their new Malibu, Cadillac CTS, the Kappa twins (Solstice and Sky) and some others. But if they would keep coming up with hits as those, they would have nothing to worry about.

Fords' problem is that they have really only one desirable car right now, and that's the Mustang. Recently though, they've had some success with the redesigned Focus-----but that I bet has more to do with the gas prices and not so much with how the car looks.

Which brings me to my final point..............I hope with the high fuel costs, (and higher in the future) they don't foist upon us some bizarre looking cars with the thinking of "Well, it's gets really good gas mileage..........they'll go for it!"

Can you say..............AHEM.............COUGH, COUGH,...........prius.........COUGH, COUGH.........

[george 53]

WHAT CHU TALKIN BOUT WILLAM?,,,,,,Prius? sorry dude, I just don't think so.....nope ....uh uh ....no way.....not me......

[Harold]

Yeah, the new F***us is another stylistic mess- I laugh at that chrome 'scoop' on the front fender that ends at the door line- an afterthought that goes nowhere and looks cheap and incomplete. Maybe someone should drill a series of holes along the upper character line to make it look like the rest of the trim came off. Personally, I think the styling heads at all the car companies should be taken out back and shot. The CTS is origami on acid ugly, the 300 and Charger are bloated, ill- proportioned pigs and the Ford line is a nightmare. When Chevy restyled the Impala two years ago, it was a serious backward step- can someone tell me why all the cars now have these idiotic taillights that are triangular in shape and end at the trunk opening? Are focus groups deciding this ######? If so, companies need to quit relying on the opinions of retirees with nothing better to do and go with their gut instincts.

Edited May 28, 2008 by Harold

[Zoom Zoom]

Can you say..............AHEM.............COUGH, COUGH,...........prius.........COUGH, COUGH.........

Styling is always subjective. I love how the Prius looks! A lot more than how it drives. It drives like...an old person's car More Mercury buyers would go to Prius if they could get past the styling and actually drive it! Smooth, ultra-quiet, reluctant to change direction with any sort of speed and lots of tire squeal at ridiculously low speeds...People buy Prius more for the "statement" than for anything else. Yes, they do get great mileage. People choose Prius over other hybrids because it looks different...it looks like a hybrid, the are using the Prius as a status symbol of "doing their part to save the environment" even though there are serious problems with hybrids being truly "green"...but that's a whole 'nother story. Meanwhile, hybrids from GM that look far better or more mainstream (Aura/Malibu/Tahoe) are simply not selling. Partially because hybrid status seekers don't acknowledge GM on their radar, and partly because the GM hybrids aren't nearly as efficient as the Prius. The Prius has love-it-or-hate-it styling. It's become completely mainstream; it's on the top ten list of overall sales now. That in itself is amazing. Just commute in a big city like Atlanta, the Prius are ubiquitous. I guess if I had to have a car for driving 20-30K miles/year it would be a good choice for low cost of total ownership. But it would bore me to tears in the driving department just as much as a Grand Marquis

Mercury won't be missed by me. Since my Grandfather owned them, and I still remember his '62 Mercury, I've always had them pegged as "old persons cars". My trips to my Mom's retirement village, to the grocery store, and around town seem to indicate that those who actually buy new Mercurys are far above my age bracket. Around here, if you see a younger person driving a Mercury or Buick, either they are driving a relative's car, inherited it, or bought it used. I'd never think twice about buying a Mercury or Buick used if the deal was right. But I'd never spend new car $ on something like that.

When I look at Lincoln-Mercury, I see a lost pair of divisions. In actuality, Lincoln has become the "default" Mercury. A not so big step above Ford, with subdued sort-of-distinctive style. There really is no need for Mercury now that Ford has ignored it and let Lincoln slip down a notch in exclusivity. The American companies have no trouble coming out with tasty concepts, but they can't seem to get stuff into production that doesn't scream "rental car quality". Don't blame the designers, blame the beancounters.

[bobss396]

I agree that by and large, American cars are fugly compared to the Jap and European cars. The Cadillacs are growing on me slowly, the Chrysler line is a general abomination with their front heavy 300 and Charger. We looked at Chrysler Pacificas, me and my wife had to duck to get into the driver's seat, and we're not tall by any means.

Fords are a confusion of "F" prefixed models, no wonder they're all eFFed up. I looked at '04 and '05 Chevy Malibus, very uncomfortable and have an ill laid out interior. But now the new ones are coming out and they're superior all around.

Does it really cost any more to crank out an American car with good looks and a functional interior? I don't think so. I just added two cars to the stable at home, a 2001 Corolla and 2002 Altima. Both were the right cars at the right price. The Altima is mine and I can't find a thing that I don't like about it. I had hesitated so long in buying a foreign car, but with gas prices and what the US cars have to offer, I really had no other choice.

Bob

[Harry P.]

I realy don't understand the theory behind "badge engineering".

Why did Chrysler sell the same cars (Neon, Voyager/Caravan, Stratus/Breeze, etc.) under two names, in two separate dealerships?

Why does Ford do the same thing (Taurus/Sable, Crown Vic/Grand Marquis. etc.)?

Same with GM, in many cases.

Did the car buying public NEED both a Plymouth Neon AND a Dodge Neon??? That's some kind of stupid marketing that I don't understand.

Why not make Mercury a little different? Do a new Cougar off the Mustang platform (all the mechanicals could be shared, so not a whole lot of cost to make this happen. Add an XR-7 model to attract the under 30 crowd. Bring back the Comet nameplate, etc. Give Mercury a little personality and something unique that they can call their own. All of this could be done with very little cost to Ford. Slapping a different grill on a Ford and calling it a "Mercury" isn't fooling as many people as it used to. Why spend more for the Mercury name when you can get the same exact car at a Ford dealer for less???

Is anyone in Detroit actually THINKING??? Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited May 28, 2008 by harrypri

[bobss396]

....Around here, if you see a younger person driving a Mercury or Buick, either they are driving a relative's car, inherited it, or bought it used. I'd never think twice about buying a Mercury or Buick used if the deal was right. But I'd never spend new car $ on something like that.

When I look at Lincoln-Mercury, I see a lost pair of divisions. In actuality, Lincoln has become the "default" Mercury. A not so big step above Ford, with subdued sort-of-distinctive style. There really is no need for Mercury now that Ford has ignored it and let Lincoln slip down a notch in exclusivity. The American companies have no trouble coming out with tasty concepts, but they can't seem to get stuff into production that doesn't scream "rental car quality". Don't blame the designers, blame the beancounters.

I've owned "old fart" cars made by Buick and Mercury, both are very nice cars especially the Buick Regal and Lesabre lines. Mercury had a winner with the short-lived Marauder. Their Milan is an excellent car. I agree with the Lincoln having overshadowed the Mercury line as a big FM marketing blunder. I'm not sure I'd lay the blame on the bean counters, but something is rotten at good old FM and they may never regain a major place in the car market place.

Bob

[Zoom Zoom]

Mercury had a winner with the short-lived Marauder. Their Milan is an excellent car. I agree with the Lincoln having overshadowed the Mercury line as a big FM marketing blunder. I'm not sure I'd lay the blame on the bean counters, but something is rotten at good old FM and they may never regain a major place in the car market place.

Bob

Beancounters/beancounter mentality with management that clearly does not love cars first and foremost, or put people who do love them in the right positions. There is a whole lot of blame to go around, the main thing is they slept and only really invested in trucks, cars were way down the ladder. They handed the car market to the competition by mostly ignoring it. And when they did make good cars, the people who they really wanted to notice didn't care anymore. They were well catered to by other makes.

It's not rocket science; if the American companies really want to compete, all they have to do is offer uniquely American style, reliability and quality that is at least comparable to the Japanese, and spend some money advertising them so people know they're out there, and quit cannibalizing with too many divisions selling the same thing under the same parent company banner. Camry/Accord can be beaten if they really try. There's nothing magic about them, other than a lot of people bought them, loved them, and realized that ownership was so easy because the cars were reliable and cheap to maintain, and they were worth a lot when traded in. New ones aren't nearly as bulletproof as the older ones.

I wanted to like the Marauder, sat in one at the car show and was severely disappointed. I like the subdued looks. But it was significantly overpriced, and the driver's seat was a complete joke. It squished down like a car that the Marauder supposedly wasn't, and not only that but the seat actually made my whole body tilt towards the door. It was awful. Note to Ford: performance cars should have proper seats, with no excuses! No problem like this with the Impala SS that preceded it by 10 years, it had better performance for much less $$. Impalas sold for a premium. Marauders had to be sold with rebates and discounts.

The Milan and Sable are both excellent, but they aren't anything more than badge-engineered Fords. That's not good enough in today's market. The Sable, to me at least, is far more desirable than the Grand Marquis...much more comfortable, much roomier (Grand Marquis has awful rear seat legroom for such a huge car), and better driving (the one to have is the '07/'08 with the bigger motor and the real transmission, not the pencil-sharpener CVT). But it's too close to a Five Hundred/Taurus, also a good car, but hampered by overly boring styling. The Lincoln MKWhatever is the Lincoln version of the Taurus, and it's a fine Mercury, looks a lot more modern than Taurus/Sable, to me it's what Mercury should be, but Ford calls it a Lincoln...and it's a V6 only.

[bobss396]

And we can thank those bunny huggin environmental wimps for that. American Muscle died w/ the birth of the catalytic converter. Anyone notice how the best model kits DONT have those power robbing POS's on the exhaust????

I know, how inaccurate is that? There's probably the risk of paying royalties to the Joe Catalytic Converter Company, Inc. out there.

Bob

[Biscuitbuilder]

Mercury?

Sorry, but for most of its history, Mercury has been the car for the middle-aged, the elderly--and that perception I have goes waaaaayyyy back, to Uncle Perry & Aunt Neva's '51 Merc 4dr. No way did I want to be caught dead riding in that car, even though those two people were a pair of the nicest "greats" I ever had.

Mercury has only had a unique body, chassis and engine a couple of times in its history, I believe--1939-40 (its first two years) and from 1957-59, otherwise it's pretty much been a badge-engineered Ford, even a cheap Lincoln for a couple of years in the 50's ('55-'56), if memory serves me right. Oh yeah, there was that '99-'02 Cougar (advertised as being designed for women, for the female market--didn't much appeal to them either).

But, other than those few years of unique Merc's, mostly it's been an "upscale" Ford (Even the '49-'51 was originally designed as the first post-war Ford, until the "whizz kids" HFII hired at the end of WW-II realized it would be too big and too high-priced to go head-to-head with the likes of Chevrolet and Plymouth). most years using Ford body shells, on a longer wheelbase, same or similar engines, same transmissions, same everything that mattered.

But why keep it around? Simple: Having multiple marques, while sharing everything back and forth across product lines, in good times expands the dealer network, broadens the customer base. But, when times get tough, not a good idea to have an otherwise strong dealer (the local Ford store) going head-to-head all the time with a weaker store selling essentially the same car, even if for a few dollars more.

Mercury's introduction was meant to keep Ford buyers buying Ford product as they became more affluent, by giving them a bit more car, with its own identity, but yet having that upscale appeal--pretty much following GM's lead (you know, start them with Chevies, then move them up to Pontiac, and when they got more income, to an Olds, and if they reached VP of the bank, a Buick, and for those who hit the bigtime, with the penthouse office and exec washroom--Cadillac), but it never really did work for Fomoco like it did for GM. But, even for GM, those days are pretty much gone forever. This is the age of specialization--even Toyota and Honda aren't truly able to meet all needs for all people--otherwise there wouldn't be more automakers out there than anytime since the 1930's--and Ford may just now be waking up to the fact that they can't really be in every market without specific cars tailored to any niche they choose to enter.

Chrysler found that out a few years back--hence the demise of Plymouth, GM discovered that no matter what they did, it still WAS your father's Oldsmobile (and even he, in his later years, didn't much care for the new ones).

Times change in the auto business--they always have, and always will--I think that's pretty much a fact of life.

Biscuitbuilder

[lordairgtar]

Biscuit, the 49, 50, and 51 Mercs were different from the Ford range as well. Just look under your handiest Ford and Merc models of the same years.

[Nick F40]

You ain't kiddin'!

I really wish the American car designer would be a little more daring with their designs than always trying to "play it safe".

We sure could use the likes of Harley Earl, or a Bill Mitchell these days! I really miss the days when it didn't take 6 or 7 years to redesign what was already an ugly car (name your poison) only to screw it up even further.

GM seems to be getting a handle on style once again lately................I do like their new Malibu, Cadillac CTS, the Kappa twins (Solstice and Sky) and some others. But if they would keep coming up with hits as those, they would have nothing to worry about.

Fords' problem is that they have really only one desirable car right now, and that's the Mustang. Recently though, they've had some success with the redesigned Focus-----but that I bet has more to do with the gas prices and not so much with how the car looks.

Which brings me to my final point..............I hope with the high fuel costs, (and higher in the future) they don't foist upon us some bizarre looking cars with the thinking of "Well, it's gets really good gas mileage..........they'll go for it!"

Can you say..............AHEM.............COUGH, COUGH,...........prius.........COUGH, COUGH.........

ding ding ding da ding da ding! NAILED IT!

And we can thank those bunny huggin environmental wimps for that. American Muscle died w/ the birth of the catalytic converter. Anyone notice how the best model kits DONT have those power robbing POS's on the exhaust????

true, very true!

[samdiego]

Dead Musclecars? I'm seein' HP figures that I would have thought impossible 10 years ago, from both an engineering and a sensibility standpoint. They have eclipsed the 1 pony per cube standard that used to be hard to achieve. We have cars with AC, full power and cats that, driven with one hand could put a Yenko on the trailer. Not to mention stopping and turning, two of my favorites. 500 horse Cads, 600 horse Mustangs, Vettes that can Autobahn with the best of them. I can't afford any of them, I couldn't in '69 either, but they are out there.

Edited May 29, 2008 by samdiego

[7000in5th]

A Long-Winded Tribute to Mercury

Although I have never bought a FoMoCo car (did, however, marry a 1965 Mustang), I have always had a soft spot in my heart (head?) for the 1939 Mercury because we were born the same year and have grown old together:

..and as the years passed by we both went through some revitalizations and added some trinkets, in hopes that no one noticed our age:

..later, though, the years took their toll and we just kept running without caring who noticed how old we were:

..finally, for just one of us I hope, it looks like time may be about to run out:

Farewell, Mercury, I am sorry that your family and friends have not been as supportive of you as mine have been of me. Your fate reminds me once again that things can be enjoyable, but it is people that truly matter......

[gasman]

And we can thank those bunny huggin environmental wimps for that. American Muscle died w/ the birth of the catalytic converter. Anyone notice how the best model kits DONT have those power robbing POS's on the exhaust????

I disagree. the muscle car wars are back..... and better then ever. and its not all American company's getting into the muscle car game. its the foreign ones too. sure the cars where cool in the 60's and 70's. they had HUGE horsepower. but they weren't all that good of cars. they didn't do a good job transferring that power to the ground. plus the fact that they couldn't handle. and had terrible brakes. that meant you would go fast in a straight line. but you where screwed once you came to a corner. today's muscle cars can do it all. they may not have 400 horsepower but for $25,000-$35,000 you can have something that will run circles around anything from the 60's. plus they don't need to have big gas guzzling V8's. hell Ford has a twin turbo V6 Mustang coming soon that will be as powerful as the upcoming 5.0 V8, and will get 30mpg. Chevy's got a twin turbo 4cyl Camaro that they are working on. the Subaru Impreza STi has 300 horsepower with AWD, meaning you can drive it year round in even the worst of climates. even Hyundai has a RWD 2door coupe coming out called the Genesis, which will be eventually available with a V8 (4cyl and V6 at launch). even with $4.00 a gallon gas the muscle car wars are here and they are here to stay

[Merkur XR4Ti]

NOTE TO FORD IDIOTSi mean EXECUTIVES:

Save Mercury At All Costs or Lose A Dedicated and Loyal Fanbase of Paying Customers FOREVER

I really don't understand this at all. Mercury makes rebadged Fords that don't sell well precisely because they're rebadged Fords. Killing Mercury will help Ford immeasurably because Mercury is currently a useless drain on their resources. They sell nothing unique, their segment is overlapped in countless ways by other makes and even by Ford and Lincoln, and they've been dying for years.

Plymouth was in the same boat and ChryCo dropped the hammer. No one misses Plymouth because they made nothing appealing or unique when they were killed. No, the Prowler doesn't count.

Killing off Mercury will make Ford a leaner and stronger company. I cannot see how this is a bad thing.

The time has come for the American car companies to start making hard decisions, else they'll be facing bankruptcy soon enough. GM might have to axe 4 or 5 divisions if they want to remain afloat as they are hemorrhaging money at an alarming rate. Badge engineering has been an utter failure for Ford and GM.

Edited May 29, 2008 by Merkur XR4Ti

[CAL]

Rebadging only worked for the short term when car manufacture thought the consumer was stupid and brand loyalty was high. They could sell a Plymouth Neon because there were still some people that is all they owned and would buy.

Now, they still think you are stupid, but brand loyalty is at an all time low.

[MrObsessive]

The time has come for the American car companies to start making hard decisions, else they'll be facing bankruptcy soon enough. GM might have to axe 4 or 5 divisions if they want to remain afloat as they are hemorrhaging money at an alarming rate. Badge engineering has been an utter failure for Ford and GM.

Sad but very true!

[george 53]

Well fellas, the times, they ARE achangein.Us older guys remember the 426 wedge's,440 GTX's,Hemi Roadrunners,396 Novas,427 Chevelles,428 SCJ Mustang's an 429 Cougars.But now, as has already been said, these cars did only one thing well,go from point a to point b as fast as possible.Now, these "muscle cars" can do this AND so much more,With the A/C goin full blast! I guess we just gotta re-think what We've learned and go with the flow.Yeah I ,for one really DO miss those original monsters.But my son -in-law had a 01 mustang 5pd that was pretty quick with that DOHC 4.6. Not as much fun as my ol 440 69 Charger R/T,But it was fun.I guess what I'm tryin to say is, If we really do love our "hot rods" we'll figure out a way to enjoy them,Even if gas gets up to 5/6 bucks a gallon.We may miss them ol Merc's But WE AIN'T gonna die without 'em.R.I.P.Mercury.

[Harry P.]

Badge engineering worked great for the Big 3 for many years. GM made a fortune selling the same cars as Chevies, Pontiacs and Buicks.

As long as the public was gullible enough to fall for that scam, badge engineering was probably the single biggest money-making angle the Big 3 ever had.

Could it possibly be that today's car buyers have actually smartened up???!!! Do they finally realize that a "Mercury" is nothing more than a "Ford" with a chrome grille and a sticker price $1000 higher?

If so, then the carmakers will be in a heap of trouble. Oh, wait...they already ARE in a heap of trouble...

Edited May 29, 2008 by harrypri

[Zoom Zoom]

NOTE TO FORD IDIOTSi mean EXECUTIVES:

Save Mercury At All Costs or Lose A Dedicated and Loyal Fanbase of Paying Customers FOREVER

That dedicated and loyal fanbase is dying off at a rapid rate (dying is forever, last time I checked) and isn't buying and therefore paying for enough cars to keep the division alive. It's hard enough to keep Ford alive, why should Ford shovel borrowed money that they don't have straight into another grave? If Mercury really means anything to anyone, they they should buy the division from Ford. Somehow I don't think anyone would really consider that...unless they want to make a small fortune. After starting with a large fortune...

[gasman]

That dedicated and loyal fanbase is dying off at a rapid rate (dying is forever, last time I checked) and isn't buying and therefore paying for enough cars to keep the division alive. It's hard enough to keep Ford alive, why should Ford shovel borrowed money that they don't have straight into another grave? If Mercury really means anything to anyone, they they should buy the division from Ford. Somehow I don't think anyone would really consider that...unless they want to make a small fortune. After starting with a large fortune...

very true. my 90 year old grandfather drove a few Mercury's in my lifetime (late 80's Grand Marquis, and a 93 Grand Marquis, both bought new). so Mercury's always had the "old Person Car" label attached to it. Buicks got the same problems (my parents had an 87 Century Wagon they bought new, but that was back when Buick was still "cool" with the Turbo GNS). my mom who is in her mid 50's would'nt be cought dead driving a Mercury or a Buick right now. heck, my parents are new car shopping and they are looking at a VW GTi, and a 2008 Honda Civic Si right now. nothing from the big 3 (Ford, GM, and Toyota, I no longer consider Chrysler part of the big three, or four, or even five)interest them right now. since they want a fuel efficient sports sedan.

[lordairgtar]

Badge engineering worked great for the Big 3 for many years. GM made a fortune selling the same cars as Chevies, Pontiacs and Buicks.

As long as the public was gullible enough to fall for that scam, badge engineering was probably the single biggest money-making angle the Big 3 ever had.

In the sixties and seventies, at least those cars did look different from one another although they shared a lot under the sheet metal. When the eighties came a Regal looked like a Monte looked like a Cutlass. The Grand Prix did look a bit different from those, but not by much. I remember my sister's Parisienne was nothing but an Impala/Caprice with Pontiac trim.

[george 53]

G.M.'s Decline started in 76 when the bastige roger smith made all the corporate divisions use the same parts for all models.I worked a Fleetwood Fisher Body at the time,building the cabs for all the Cadillac models(the cars were finished at the Cadillac Main Plant)including the Eldorado and Olsmobile Toronado.By 1980 we were building Olds 98, Chevy Caprice,Station Wagons,AND Taxi cabs For fleet service,on a line that was exclusively Cadillacs for 70 years.It was extremely demoralizing.I don't expect ANYONE tounderstand,Ive heard ALL the Bullsh8t about "at least you got a job" We were ,at the time called the" Quality Craftsmen of The World" And Cadillac WAS the BEST car that G.M. offered at the time.(it still is in my opinion).When they bought in all the other divisions, and started using "generic" parts on all the cars there was no longer the feeling of pride that had for decades marked us as the Flagship of the Fleet.Like I said, If youve never worked on the assembly line I don't expect you to understand,But WE EARNED every penny we made! roger smith the bastige was the ONLY person responsible for what happened to G.M. He was a god da## accountant!!! He NEVER ran production,or even did any kind of job related ot the building of an automobile!All he knew was numbers.To hell with the workers that made the product or to the product itself.The sorry bastige retired and left G.M. just a shell of it's former self,while takin a couple million dollars in "retitrement pension" and stock options PLUS his Fu*#&! golden parachute options. That is the WHOLE problem today, these cars are designed,an engineered by been counters and NOT by men who WANT to build us a good looking,safe reliable automobile.The car guy's hands are tied by the accountants, and how much can we save/make for the company.