GM downsizing

[Harry P.]

In the news this morning...

"General Motors is closing four truck and SUV plants in the U.S., Canada and Mexico as surging fuel prices hasten a dramatic shift to smaller vehicles.

CEO Rick Wagoner said Tuesday before the automaker's annual meeting in Delaware the plants to be closed are in Oshawa, Ontario; Moraine, Ohio; Janesville, Wis.; and Toluca, Mexico.

He also said the Hummer brand may be discontinued."

Edited June 3, 2008 by harrypri

[Modelmartin]

That seems to me to be a direct result of business and government leadership not leading but pandering. We all know what is the right thing to do for the good of our society. Building and selling big gas hogs and people driving 4WD crewcab 1-tons on their daily commute to work just don't make sense. Gee! Gas prices shot up and people can't afford to fuel their monstrosities. Who could have seen that coming!!!! Probably one out of 50 SUVs and pickups are actually used for the intended purpose.

Ok pickup owners - hit me with your best shot and make it good!

Andy

[gasman]

That seems to me to be a direct result of business and government leadership not leading but pandering. We all know what is the right thing to do for the good of our society. Building and selling big gas hogs and people driving 4WD crewcab 1-tons on their daily commute to work just don't make sense. Gee! Gas prices shot up and people can't afford to fuel their monstrosities. Who could have seen that coming!!!! Probably one out of 50 SUVs and pickups are actually used for the intended purpose.

Ok pickup owners - hit me with your best shot and make it good!

Andy

I own a pickup. which I use occationally as a pickup (moved hedges in it over the weekend). but its used mostly as a round about truck. but Its pretty fuel efficient. a 4cyl Ranger. which gets me an average right now of about 27 MPG. I did look at an F150 when I bought my Ranger. i'm happy I made the decision to get with the Ranger.

They might as well start engraving Hummers headstone. there as good as dead. they only sold IIRC 3,000-4,000 vehicles total this year. (including H1, H2, and H3.). the Camry out sold the Silverado last month. and it sounds like the Camry will outsell the F150 this month. so it seems like the days of the full-size pickup as sales giants are almost over. Dodge is going to discountinue the Dakota. and it sounds like the Nissan Titans days are numbered.

[Zoom Zoom]

From my perspective, which is often about bumper height on a truck or SUV, all I can say is "hallelujah!"

Large SUV's & trucks are easy to live with if/when gas is too cheap. But we've known for decades that oil isn't going to last forever, that supply issues (real or imagined) will grab us by the short hairs, and yet people reversed the downsizing trend from the late 70's when gas got cheap again and SUV's and trucks became so fashionable in the past 15 or so years. You can imagine what the rest of the world thinks about us when we cry foul at the price of gas, when we've been sucking the gasoline pumps dry because so many people here in the US drive so many gas guzzling trucks and SUV's.

Now the US mfg's who feasted on profits from the SUV/large truck fad and neglected the car market are caught yet again with their pants down, while the offshore companies who make sensibly sized and fuel-efficient cars for the rest of the world gain more and more of the market here yet again.

And for anyone who really needs a large truck or SUV, it's a buyers market right now.

[mageckman]

I just read about this on MSN, and it has me worried. Along with this Ford also sold Jaguar to the Indian company Tata. The company that I work for supplies suspension parts for some of the GM SUV's and some of the Jaguar cars. It has me wondering if we are gonna go through another round of layoffs. We've been through three so far this year.Time will tell.

Andy, now why would anyone come after you for speakin the truth? LOL I truly believe 90% of the trucks and SUV's are not used for what they were designed for. Personally, I believe a truck is a truck and should be used for hauling stuff around(ie, throw a load of concrete blocks or wood in the back, hauling furniture or farm material) , Not babying it and getting upset when you scratch the paint in the bed.Up until something happened to the motor in mine I used it to haul all kinds of stuff, from motors and car parts to furniture to mulch, a load of concrete, home improvement supplies, etc, etc. That's why I bought a longbed truck. To HAUL STUFF.If you drop it as low as it will go, and its not from the weight you have in the bed, you have just wasted a good truck. Just my opinion. Mageck

[gasman]

GM is rushing the next Cobalt to market. and they've announced a new small car. which I heard could be smaller then the Aveo. they've also been testing a 4cyl Camaro. Pontiac will also get there own version of the old Aveo. called, you guessed it. the Pontiac G3

Fords got the Fiesta coming soon. and it sounds like the Mazda 2 is coming state side. as well as the new 6 speed auto, which gets better fuel ecomony. when I get a new vehicle next year the Mazda 2 will be on my list

Chrysler is in the worst shape of all of them. the Dakota's dead. they've got a new Ram coming out in a few months. which unless fuel prices go down drastically will be a dud. they are developing a new small car. but I would'nt be cought dead in it. its being designed by Chery motors, and will be produced in China. mark my words. I will NEVER buy a Chinese produced car. NEVER. no matter how cheap it will be

Edited June 3, 2008 by gasman

[Merkur XR4Ti]

Chrysler is in the worst shape of all of them. the Dakota's dead. they've got a new Ram coming out in a few months. which unless fuel prices go down drastically will be a dud. they are developing a new small car. but I would'nt be cought dead in it. its being designed by Chery motors, and will be produced in China. mark my words. I will NEVER buy a Chinese produced car. NEVER. no matter how cheap it will be

Not to pick on you, Terry, but countless folks have said the very same thing about Japanese and Korean cars when they were first introduced to this country.

The new Chinese cars aren't ready for prime time and they may never be. Their crash test results are unacceptable. However, I recall that Hyundai got off to a rocky start in this country when they first began importing vehicles here, and today, 20 years year, they produce very very very good cars.

I can't see how Rick Wagoner gets to keep his job. He's guided GM directly into the tar pit of bankruptcy and has never been held accountable for anything. Where is the world class 4 cylinder engine GM so badly needs? No the Ecotec doesn't cut it, not when compared to the alternatives offered by other manufacturers. Where is the world class small car they need? The Cobalt ain't it. The G3 ain't it. The Saturn Ion wasn't it.

[Peter Lombardo]

Gentleman, whether you like it or not, we have no one to blame but ourselves for the mess we are in…and I am included in that statement. Let me explain….

1. As Americans we believe it is our God given right to have cheap gas. While Europe and Asia have lived with extremely high fuel prices we have felt we were immune to that problem…not so…get used to it.

2. We live in the era of the “Global Economyâ€. Think back to 10 or 15 years ago…remember all of the pictures you saw of China? Millions of people wearing olive drab clothes riding bicycles’….well, they are now driving cars. China and India are both emerging “Semi Capitalist†economies that are driving up the price of oil and building materials too. We live in a supply and demand world….as supply falls due to increased demand…prices go up and I don’t see any change in that any time soon.

3. The United States Government has been hijacked by the extreme environmentalists. Don’t get me wrong….I am not an advocate for pollution, but I believe we should try and balance our environment and our economy. Right now our TOTAL economy is in grave danger of going deep in the tank because we have not explored for oil. We have not built a refinery in over 30 years. No new nuclear plants have been built in that time either. We have over 60 years (according to the experts) off the continental shelf. There are huge oil reserves in Alaska in the wildlife preserve area, which, by the way, we could be drilling today and the experts say there is 80 or 90 years of reserves there. In 1994 a bill past the Congress and Senate allowing drilling in this area. The bill was vetoed by then President Clinton. The Drilling companies say it will take 10 years to bring that oil on line, with the pipeline construction and all of the exploration involved, so, if it had been done in 1994, we would have that oil in our system today.

4. We, as†Good Old Boy†Americans feel that we need to drive those wonderful big gas guzzling pickups and SUV’s….and why not…why not. Well, the factories have done a great job of convincing many of us that we need the big trucks. Think about this…(my numbers are close, but not exact) a GM built large SUV sells for, say, $45,000. It costs them around $20,000 to build….profit around $25,000 per unit. A Chevy Cobalt sells for around $22,000. It costs about $15,000 to manufacture….profit around $7,000. Ok, you are running GM…your bean counters present this information to you…What products do you want to build and sell? The $25,000 profit truck or the $7,000 profit car? I thought so…the trucks. So the U S manufactures do everything to convince you that you need the trucks. The advertising tells you, you need it. Your manhood tells you you need it…and ok, your business requires it.....I get it…some of us need to drive the larger trucks for business, but do all of those housewives need the Ford Explorer? It’s like cigarettes…the tobacco companies tell us all day long that “it is not your fault†you can’t quit smoking because it is addictive. They are sorry, but tobacco products are just addictive so it is not your fault that you can’t quit (read…buy more cigarettes). So the factories tell you that your lifestyle demands big trucks. Have you ever noticed that the advertising for the trucks is almost always set in the west? Big sky…big mountains…big land…and the big truck. It gets into your head and then the next thing you know, you are trying to see if the new truck will fit into the garage.

5. In the early 1970’s, the Arab Oil Producing Countries boycotted the U S for our support of Israel in the short war. I remember the gas station lines and the odd/even license plate day to purchase gas. We saw, first hand, the effects of gasoline shortages but as a country did nothing to change our bloated ways. We have done almost nothing to find alternate forms of energy. Granted, we have Trillions and Trillions of dollars invested in the internal combustion engine and all of the peripheral industries surrounding it. That will not change without a fight but we as Americans are paying for that situation now. It has been like playing Russian Roulette. Sooner or later we were going to take a bullet in the temple…this may be it.

6. Our economy, I hate to say, is in a very precarious situation right now. We have a huge trade deficit with China…everything, and I mean everything we buy comes from china….Hell, all of the models we love so much were molding in China. China and Saudi Arabia now owns most of our trillions of dollars of debt. If they pull the plug….we are in free falls friends. Today, the “Dollar†has been greatly devalued by our weak economy and that is contributing to the high cost of gasoline. Granted, right now it is in their best interest to let it be as they need us as an outlet for the goods they make for us…but sooner or later…when the China and Indian and European markets begin to pick up the slack…..God help us. Think about this too. In the eighties our trade deficit was with Japan. They took the money and invested it in land, like Pebble Beach Golf Course and Rockefeller Center, among other properties and in priceless works of art….all very cool. But the Chinese have a different view. They are investing huge portions of the trade profits into their military….not too cool. Have you noticed the other day, Russian and China are getting chummy? Also not cool. The Chinese have an expansive spy network all throughout our Military Industrial Complex. Our high-tech secrets are heading west….also not cool. We, don’t make anything …anymore…. in this country. Manufacturing is leaving America as fast as a top fuel dragster pulling a hole shot. NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) was, in my opinion a bad deal all around. My feeling was when you have “Big Business†and “Big Government†pushing hard for something “hold on to your walletâ€. NAFTA took jobs from America and put them basically in Mexico (Also Canada, but not that much). Great, Jose could get a job in Mexico building Chrysler PT Cruisers and Joseph in Indiana loses his job…real smooth. Don’t get me wrong…I have no problem with Mexico or Mexicans…we live in a global economy and everyone is entitled to life, liberty and a job. I am just concerned that our elected leaders are selling us down the river and damaging our economy and therefore hurting you and me. And that brings me to my last point…

7. Our Government is failing us….big time. Our elected leaders, for the most part, are only interested in their personal gain. The corporate lobbyists control the Politian and therefore the legislation. Two weeks ago, our big bad Congress had hearings to find out why the cost of gas is so high at the pump. They dragged in the heads of the major oil companies and basically tried to embarrass them with the high amount of their salaries. This was a thinly veiled attempt to get a “sound bite†for the evening news. Come on, stay with me here…I don’t defend the oil companies, especially when they make record profits….but they are not driving up the cost of the crude oil. Wall Street has much more to do with the price of oil than the oil companies do. The commodity markets control the cost through the bidding process. Whether a barrel of oil is $40.00 or $140.00, the oil companies do not set that. As I said earlier, it is a supply and demand world…..other countries are willing to pay more so we pay up or do without. Back to Congress…..the oil company exec’s, to a man, correctly, put the blame back on Congress. Congress has not past the laws that will allow the oil companies to explore for more supply. They stop the building of refineries and have done little, if anything to spur on alternative energy research. There needs to be meaningful tax breaks and incentives to alternate forms of energy. The Japanese and Europeans have been moving on this front and are out in the lead. Once again, America, the greatest industrial country in the world is playing catch up. You guys should know where your Congressman and Senators stand on energy reform. Write them…question them…find out where they are on this. I live in New Jersey, so I am screwed. All of my elected officials are in the tank. We, NJ, are a whisper away from bankruptcy….and nothing is being done to make it better…taxes go up…spending goes up….and the deficit goes up…therefore my disposable income goes down proportionally.

I know, I can be long winded…but there are many reasons for where we are today. Here is the “Cliff Note†version, of why I think we are paying $4.00+ for a gallon of gas.

We are arrogant…always thought gas would be cheap, unlike the rest of the world, so we made no plan to prevent this….Other emerging economies have increased demand and that drives the price up….The extreme environmentalists have kept oil exploration from happening….The vehicle manufacturers have a vested interest in keeping us in low mile per gallon trucks and SUV’s….Even in the face of problems in the past with oil supply, we continued on fat dumb and lazy (as a nation)…Our economy is weaker than they are letting on, our dollar is falling in value and that drives the price higher…and lastly, our elected leaders have failed us and have left us in a very bad place. I got to tell you…New Zealand is looking better and better to me.

[Jello]

Its no surprise there at all..what is a surprise is that its still producing full size trucks & SUVs! Ford & Chrysler too. I expect things to get a whole lot worse over the summer and lookout for more announcements coming! I expect some real summer & fall sales deals with full size truck prices slashed by half or more. Chrysler will get hit the hardest for obvious reasons.

Toyota even cancelled building a full size truck plant in Mo. last month. Hmmm...not good if Toyota is feeling the blues either eh?

Good thing I drive a '05 Ranger! Even if it 'only' gets 20 mpg with the AC on. Thats a lot better than the full size Ford truck I had 2 years ago and it only got 13 mpg ( 10 mpg with AC) but it sure was one fast pick'em up !

I see on the news a lot lately about folks riding horses to work....Looks a lot like things are coming back to a full circle.

Anybody got a low miles Donkey with 18" rims & a rollbar for sale hmm? A saddle is a must tho! We having fun yet?

~ Jeff

[gasman]

sales so far this year. (from autoblog).

BRANDS

Acura –9.9% at 14,893 (5/07: 15,920)

Audi -6.4% at 8,534 (5/07: 8,788)

BMW –8.1% at 25,469 (5/07: 26,689)

Buick –37.8% at 11,033 (5/07: 17,087)

Cadillac –26% at 13,348 (5/07: 17,380)

Chevrolet –27.1% at 167,202 (5/07: 220,870)

Ford –16.6% at 184,402 (5/07: 212,572)

GMC –38.8% at 30,724 (5/07: 48,336)

Honda 13.9% at 153,104 (5/07: 129,447)

HUMMER –61.7% at 1,843 (5/07: 4,636)

Hyundai 1.8% at 46,415 (5/07: 43,885)

Infiniti –6% at 10,495 (5/07: 10,748)

Jaguar 22.7% at 1,757 (5/07: 1,379)

Kia 4.9% at 31,047 (5/07: 28,494)

Land Rover –32.3% at 3,003 (5/07: 4,269)

Lexus –19.6% at 26,593 (5/07: 31,847)

Lincoln –42% at 8,365 (5/07: 13,880)

Mazda .4% at 27,921 (5/07: 26,788)

Mercedes 8.3% at 24,480 (5/07: 21,771)

Mercury –28% at 13,593 (5/07: 18,178)

MINI 47.2% at 6,312 (5/07: 4,130)

Mitsubishi –26% at 10,430 (5/07: 13,651)

Nissan 5.7% at 90,379 (5/07: 82,314)

Pontiac –25.9% at 27,966 (5/07: 36,325)

Porsche –20% at 2,796 (5/07: 3,348)

Saab –28% at 2,148 (5/07: 2,872)

Saturn –32.7% at 18,099 (5/07: 26,905)

Subaru 9% at 18,436 (5/07: 16,282)

Suzuki –2% at 10,364 (5/07: 10,190)

Toyota –6.3% at 230,811 (5/07: 237,176)

Volkswagen –3.6% at 22,346 (5/07: 22,325)

Volvo –24% at 7,238 (5/07: 9,192)

Not Yet Reported

Chrysler

Dodge

Jeep

COMPANIES

BMW Group –0.7% at 31,781 (5/07: 30,819)

Chrysler Group –28% at 148,747 (5/07: 199,393)

Ford Motor Co –19% at 217,998 (5/07: 259,470)

General Motors –30% at 272,363 (5/07: 375,682)

Honda America 11.3% at 167,997 (5/07: 145,367)

Nissan North America 4.4% at 100,874 (5/07: 93,062)

Toyota Motor Co. –7.9% at 257,404 (5/07: 269,023)

The Highest selling vehicle so far this year is the Honda Civic. followed by the Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, and Toyota Carolla. the F150 fell to 5th (for the first time in 17 years), but its not all bad news for Ford as the Focus is having a good year so far

Edited June 3, 2008 by gasman

[Brendan]

I can't see how Rick Wagoner gets to keep his job. He's guided GM directly into the tar pit of bankruptcy and has never been held accountable for anything. Where is the world class 4 cylinder engine GM so badly needs? No the Ecotec doesn't cut it, not when compared to the alternatives offered by other manufacturers. Where is the world class small car they need? The Cobalt ain't it. The G3 ain't it. The Saturn Ion wasn't it.

Your complaining that GM doesn't have a good 4-cylinder motor. I have a '93 Saturn with a 4-cylinder motor and it gets on an average of anywhere of 27 and 30 miles a gallon. And this is not highway driving; this is driving in town. I also have an '04 Suburu Impreza WRX which is a turbo charged 4-cylinder which averages about 30 miles per gallon. And when I drive long distances, I can get close to 40. Suburu is owned by GM. There are good 4-cylinders out there. It's just that most people do not know how to drive their car properly to get good gas mileage.

[gasman]

Your complaining that GM doesn't have a good 4-cylinder motor. I have a '93 Saturn with a 4-cylinder motor and it gets on an average of anywhere of 27 and 30 miles a gallon. And this is not highway driving; this is driving in town. I also have an '04 Suburu Impreza WRX which is a turbo charged 4-cylinder which averages about 30 miles per gallon. And when I drive long distances, I can get close to 40. Suburu is owned by GM. There are good 4-cylinders out there. It's just that most people do not know how to drive their car properly to get good gas mileage.

GM used to own a small part of Subaru (about 20% stake). Toyota bought GM's stake in 2004.

[Brendan]

GM used to own a small part of Subaru (about 20% stake). Toyota bought GM's stake in 2004.

GM must still own part of it because I get letters from them wanting me to buy a new Suburu every once in a while. This isn't from the dealer; it's from the factory.

[Zoom Zoom]

GM must still own part of it because I get letters from them wanting me to buy a new Suburu every once in a while. This isn't from the dealer; it's from the factory.

If GM is sending those, all I can say they are pathetically out of the loop as they severed their ties with Subaru/Fuji Heavy Industries. As Terry mentioned, they sold their stake in Fuji Heavy Industries. On October 5, 2005 Toyota purchased 8.7% of FHI shares from GM who had owned 20.1% of FHI. GM later divested its remaining 11.4% stake, selling its shares on the open market to sever all ties with FHI.

Perhaps Toyota will purchase GM?

Read About Shareholders Here

GM Sells Subaru Shares to Toyota

Subaru and Toyota to build cars together at Subaru plant in Indiana

[Mike]

In the news this morning...

"General Motors is closing four truck and SUV plants in the U.S., Canada and Mexico as surging fuel prices hasten a dramatic shift to smaller vehicles.

CEO Rick Wagoner said Tuesday before the automaker's annual meeting in Delaware the plants to be closed are in Oshawa, Ontario; Moraine, Ohio; Janesville, Wis.; and Toluca, Mexico.

He also said the Hummer brand may be discontinued."

shocking.

[rickr442]

If Americans would throw a collective fit in November, and toss out any elected official found with their lips superglued to the posterior of ANY rep of the hysterical eco-weenies, we'd make some progress toward becoming energy self-sufficient. The big evil oil companies are making huge profits dollar-wise, but the percentage of end-profit they make is rather small. Compare that rate with the rate of taxation at all levels... the government makes FAR more off of each gallon, for doing exactly... well, nothing! Cut the Congress' ties to BIG ECO!

Give the oil companies something to do... let them drill in proven reserves in this country, let them build a few new tech refineries on shuttered military bases, let them do their jobs, and things will progress, while alternative sources/methods, (ones that really WORK and really LAST and don't offer a false 'surface' economy, please...) are developed.

Oh, and let the clean freaks and bashers keen and wail to their hearts' content, just ignore them! They don't... and never have... created or contributed anything except their own greenhouse gas... they never shut up!

Edited June 4, 2008 by rickr442

[Brendan]

If GM is sending those, all I can say they are pathetically out of the loop as they severed their ties with Subaru/Fuji Heavy Industries. As Terry mentioned, they sold their stake in Fuji Heavy Industries. On October 5, 2005 Toyota purchased 8.7% of FHI shares from GM who had owned 20.1% of FHI. GM later divested its remaining 11.4% stake, selling its shares on the open market to sever all ties with FHI.

Perhaps Toyota will purchase GM?

Read About Shareholders Here

GM Sells Subaru Shares to Toyota

Subaru and Toyota to build cars together at Subaru plant in Indiana

That would explain why all the new Subarus look like Prius. Not a very good looking car. Thanks for the clarification.

[lordairgtar]

Not to pick on you, Terry, but countless folks have said the very same thing about Japanese and Korean cars when they were first introduced to this country.

The new Chinese cars aren't ready for prime time and they may never be. Their crash test results are unacceptable. However, I recall that Hyundai got off to a rocky start in this country when they first began importing vehicles here, and today, 20 years year, they produce very very very good cars.

I can't see how Rick Wagoner gets to keep his job. He's guided GM directly into the tar pit of bankruptcy and has never been held accountable for anything. Where is the world class 4 cylinder engine GM so badly needs? No the Ecotec doesn't cut it, not when compared to the alternatives offered by other manufacturers. Where is the world class small car they need? The Cobalt ain't it. The G3 ain't it. The Saturn Ion wasn't it.

When an HHR does the Nurburgring at 155 mph, I think the Ecotech DOES cut it. Very easily modded engine and gives decent performance and economy in it's stock form, both 2.2 and 2.4 versions. The turbo 2.0 is cool. I love my Ecotech powered car. Arrogant!? WHat does that make Ecuador with 90 cent a gallon gas? We certainly do not think we are entitled to cheap fuel, but certainly we should not hinder companies that could explore and drill and build and maintain refineries. I think the lefties are the arrogant ones with their self inflicted guilt trips over the environment and climate change and PETA and all the rest. We will get the government we so richly deserve this fall.

Edited June 4, 2008 by lordairgtar

[Jello]

I seen on the news the other night about how GM vehicles like the new Impala are selling like ice cream on a hot July day in China and the Chinese folks don't understand why us Americans don't buy enough Impalas....They think we actually build the best cars in the world!?!! Did I miss something here?.... I couldn't believe it myself til I saw a news clip showing a Chinese guy going nuts over a new Impala in the showroom that looks like any American new car showroom except its in China...oh yeah, he bought the car & seemed very happy with his purchase.

Everywhere else in the world, lots of people are buying American 'made' vehicles and sales are great for GM & Ford except in American...? It wouldn't surprise me if China buys GM....and do remember, we help them with a lot of this new technology and they are killing us ever so slowly...

The problem with Nov coming up is that its the same old story, we will elect another turkey to drive us all out of business cause American people have gotten lazy & toooo comfortable with the lifestyle of DVDs, computers, SUVs, fast food, new phone technology, video games, overpriced new houses, endless credit cards...so why rock the boat? Soon they will find out why they should have rocked the boat and paid very dear for not doing anything about it.

~ Jeff

Edited June 4, 2008 by Jello

[Harry P.]

Gentleman, whether you like it or not, we have no one to blame but ourselves for the mess we are in…and I am included in that statement. Let me explain….

Our Government is failing us….big time. Our elected leaders, for the most part, are only interested in their personal gain. The corporate lobbyists control the Politian and therefore the legislation.

AMEN!!!

If our government WANTED to do something...ANYTHING...about the oil situation, they would have acted by now. More exploration, price controls, building refineries, hydrogen power, solar power, wind power, etc., etc., etc.

But obviously they have NOT acted. Why? Because, as Peter said, our country is run not by "we the people", as the Constitution states, but by the lobbyists who represent big business. Our government is run by the almighty dollar, and the welfare of the citizen is ignored. Instead, the welfare of the corporation is protected...at the expense of the citizens.

And how's this for the ultimate example of government stupidity: They give tax breaks to the oil companies to "encourage" more oil production...yet they put up enormous obstacles (or ban outright) the oil companies from drilling and/or building new refineries. Huh???!!!

Sad but true. But that situation can only last so long. Our government needs a functioning society and economy to sustain itself, and that society and economy is on shaky ground. How much longer can our government bilk its citizens?

[cruz]

What's funny is that last year I bought a Dodge Ram from Car Max and just the other day I was planning to trade it in for a 4 cylinder car and someone told me that they are not accepting SUV's or trucks as trade-ins. I guess I am f^%ed That thing really guzzles too

[Harry P.]

What's funny is that last year I bought a Dodge Ram from Car Max and just the other day I was planning to trade it in for a 4 cylinder car and someone told me that they are not accepting SUV's or trucks as trade-ins. I guess I am f^%ed That thing really guzzles too

You bought a huge gas-swilling truck a year ago, but now your transportation needs can be filled just fine by a small 4-cylinder car. So when you bought the Ram...what were you thinking???

[Brendan]

What's funny is that last year I bought a Dodge Ram from Car Max and just the other day I was planning to trade it in for a 4 cylinder car and someone told me that they are not accepting SUV's or trucks as trade-ins. I guess I am f^%ed That thing really guzzles too

They're accepting Hybrid SUV's for trade-ins. Maybe you could put some batteries in the back of your truck and call it an electic hybrid.

It sucks to hear, though, that they won't take it. Around where I am, a lot of people drive trucks and SUV's. You're not seeing as many of them on the road any more. The car dealers in my town have had SUV's sitting on the lots for several months. Not seeing anything new coming in for a long while.

[Peter Lombardo]

I read a story just two days ago in the Automotive News (an auto trade weekly newspaper) talking about that exact situation. Scary but true, a number of dealers are declining to take large trucks and SUV’s on trade because they just don’t have an outlet for them. They can’t be resold as Used because there just isn’t a demand for them. The auction prices are way down on them because the other dealers do not want to buy them. And on top of that, the factories are unloading a large number of “almost new†trucks and SUV’s to the “closed†auctions so IF a dealer wants a used big pick up truck or SUV, he will buy the factory truck with the almost full warranty and very low miles.

The factories are sitting on tons of Trucks and SUV’s because for months now the dealers are refusing to take them into stock. The Factory guys drive the truck as a Demo for 5,000 to 6,000 miles and then the factory brings it to the closed auction (a “closed auction†is an auction that is only open to the same “Brand†dealer as the factory that is bring the vehicles….so a closed Ford auction is only open to Ford dealers.)

Look, I don’t mean to be sounding so negative on the subjects of gasoline prices and our economy in general, but we have some very tough times ahead. My heart goes out to you guy’s stuck with low MPG trucks. And what makes matters worse; many of you guys are most likely “upside down†in the deal. In case you are not familiar with term “upside downâ€, that refers to a situation where you owe more on the vehicle than it is worth. That is the classic case of adding insult to injury. You (not you, but the editorial “you†can’t afford to keep the truck and you can’t afford to trade the truck. So, you are left to buy expensive gas and run the credit card debt even higher.

Personally, I think this is a good time to hunker down, cut excesses, and start working on some of the huge stash of kits I have been stockpiling and keep new purchases to the minimum…….yeah, like I can stop buying plastic!

[rickr442]

I'm in the process of moving to Vegas from LA, and I make that 650+ mile round trip about once a week, see a lot of traffic both ways.

just a few observations...

First, even with the highest gas prices ever, there is no less traffic on I-15 to Vegas, even big hairy 4x4s with condo-size toy haulers tied to their bumpers, doing 90+mph.

One of my businesses deals with car dealers doing pinstriping and trim repair, mostly for used car stores. The L.A. market really sucks right now, but they really aren't the businessmen that the Vegas types are. They don't push product like they should, and they almost exclusively chase the (obsolete) 'Mexican national' market, so a lot of them will go away in the short term. Good...

The more adventurous of the dealers are glomming on to the SUVs and pickups at auction at lower prices because they have the market for commercial use sales. gardeners, contractors, etc. I even saw three diesel pickups sold last week, with diesel going for almost $5 a gallon! If you need the vehicle for business, this may be the best opportunity to get it at a good price.

I listen to news/talk radio almost exclusively, and noted that the run-up in oil prices Friday came only after an 'expert' predicted $150 oil prices by July 4th. This situation is solely caused by the commodities market, and comes as a side benefit to the big evil oil companies. Look for a turnaround later this month, their memories are a bit short...