chevy small block

[Cedward]

What Revell 1/25 kit has a small block chevy with injectors, tall  vertical, the Anglia drag coupe has them but slanted thanks.

[Don Sikora II]

Think the engine in the Revell Anglia is actually an Oldsmobile. Only small-block Chevy with tall injectors I can think of off top of my head is in most issues of the AMT '55 Nomad.... but the injector parts weren't in the latest issue which was stock only.

[Cedward]

O K Lets try any engine with a injector set up 60s gasser style!

[TarheelRick]

The AMT 70 Impala kit has a fuel-injected big-block option and the AMT 69 Ford Galaxie has a fuel-injected SOHC big block, although that is a really poor kit to work with.  Hope this helps.

[Snake45]

O K Lets try any engine with a injector set up 60s gasser style!

The MPC/AMT '57 Corvette "gasser" with the tilt front.

You don't want tall injector stacks on a SBC. Not saying NO SBC ever ran tall stacks, but I've seen thousands of pics of 'em and I can't recall ever seeing tall stacks on them. Tall stacks are more of a BBC and Hemi thing.

[Longbox55]

The AMT '72 Blazer has them, too. 

[Cedward]

I have 2 sets of scale 12 inch stacks from Parts from Parks, I found a hemi manifold in the R&M from Maryland catalog. Gibson Engines had a sml. & big block injected engine listed but every thing is out of stock on there web page!  Injected hemi will have to fit my Honda Trail 70 dirt bike ! ........Just kidding.

[Ace-Garageguy]

 

You don't want tall injector stacks on a SBC. Not saying NO SBC ever ran tall stacks, but I've seen thousands of pics of 'em and I can't recall ever seeing tall stacks on them. Tall stacks are more of a BBC and Hemi thing.

Long stacks increase bottom-end torque. A smaller displacement engine can dramatically benefit from long injector stacks, especially if it's hooked to an automatic gearbox.

[Can-Con]

I have 2 sets of scale 12 inch stacks from Parts from Parks, I found a hemi manifold in the R&M from Maryland catalog. Gibson Engines had a sml. & big block injected engine listed but every thing is out of stock on there web page!  Injected hemi will have to fit my Honda Trail 70 dirt bike ! ........Just kidding.

Pretty sure Ross Gibson shut down his engine business a year or two ago.

[Snake45]

Long stacks increase bottom-end torque. A smaller displacement engine can dramatically benefit from long injector stacks, especially if it's hooked to an automatic gearbox.

Then the racers seemed more interested in top end rpm.

As I said, if I've ever seen tall stacks on a real SBC (like the '55 Nomad kit's), I can't recall it.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Then the racers seemed more interested in top end rpm.

As I said, if I've ever seen tall stacks on a real SBC (like the '55 Nomad kit's), I can't recall it.

1) It depends entirely on how you set the car up, and

2) These ain't street setups...and they ARE smallblock manifolds.   

Another trick is to stagger the length of the stacks to broaden the torque curve...

Edited July 2, 2017 by Ace-Garageguy

[comp1839]

bottom manifold is a big block.

it's also efi. totally streetable.

staggered length stacks are only big block specific to equalize the intake tract runner length. for those that don't know big block chevy's have a long and a short intake runner in the head.

length of the tube is tuned to the operating range of the engine/ drivetrain combo.

[Ace-Garageguy]

bottom manifold is a big block.

it's also efi. totally streetable.

staggered length stacks are only big block specific to equalize the intake tract runner length. for those that don't know big block chevy's have a long and a short intake runner in the head.

length of the tube is tuned to the operating range of the engine/ drivetrain combo.

I posted the top two pix to illustrate long stacks on smallblock manifolds.

I posted the last pic to illustrate staggered stacks on anything.

EFI and "streetable" or not, stack length has an effect on the torque curve, because it effects when the reflected pressure wave hits the intake valve at a particular RPM (the "organ pipe" principle). It's all in the engineering books for anyone to see (and I'll be happy to post the equations if anybody is interested  ).

Some EFI-equipped production cars have been built with manifold runners that change length with engine RPM, to broaden and flatten the torque curve too. With direct-port EFI, a long runner has exactly the same effect (as far as the air is concerned) as a long stack. There are also some production EFI engines out there with staggered length port runners.

But tuning on a dyno and then actually flogging the thing is the only way to be absolutely certain of exactly how well any combination of anything works on a particular car.

I've seen staggered stacks on 4 cylinder road racing cars and smallblock Ford engines, among others.

And...staggered stacks on a little bitty motorcycle engine. They work the same way.

\

And then there's this guy...

Edited July 3, 2017 by Ace-Garageguy

[Snake45]

1) It depends entirely on how you set the car up, and

2) These ain't street setups...and they ARE smallblock manifolds.   

Another trick is to stagger the length of the stacks to broaden the torque curve...

I don't doubt long SBC tubes exist. I've just never seen them on a race car back in the '60s. At least not a winning one. Every pic I've ever seen of them on gassers, altereds, even junior fuelers, they had short stacks.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Every pic I've ever seen of them on gassers, altereds, even junior fuelers, they had short stacks.

 

 Took about 30 seconds to find this. There's lots more pix out there.

I never said there were tons of them anyway. My point was that it's believable and reasonably period-correct. Not necessarily for every injected SBC in every class, but they WERE out there.

   

Edited July 3, 2017 by Ace-Garageguy

[Cedward]

Come on guys, lets not argue over how long it is! I remember years back using red beads on thread for either a gasser or circle track modified with injectors. I saw a picture of a manifold with red rubber balls on top yesterday on E bay. Brought back memories !

[Force]

Pretty sure Ross Gibson shut down his engine business a year or two ago.

Well Mr Gibson passed away suddenly a couple of years ago.

[Can-Con]

Well Mr Gibson passed away suddenly a couple of years ago.

I didn't know he passed,, that too bad.

[comp1839]

I posted the top two pix to illustrate long stacks on smallblock manifolds. the only relevant thing you posted.

I posted the last pic to illustrate staggered stacks on anything. funny, you didn't state that. by the way, again, that's NOT reason why the stacks that are pictured where staggerd.

EFI and "streetable" or not, stack length has an effect on the torque curve, because it effects when the reflected pressure wave hits the intake valve at a particular RPM (the "organ pipe" principle). It's all in the engineering books for anyone to see (and I'll be happy to post the equations if anybody is interested  ).please, feel free to post. i love to learn things that are new and relevant.

Some EFI-equipped production cars have been built with manifold runners that change length with engine RPM, to broaden and flatten the torque curve too. With direct-port EFI, a long runner has exactly the same effect (as far as the air is concerned) as a long stack. There are also some production EFI engines out there with staggered length port runners. the EFI systems you are talking about are not the same as stack injection. these manifolds have a common plenum. they ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

But tuning on a dyno and then actually flogging the thing is the only way to be absolutely certain of exactly how well any combination of anything works on a particular car. this, while it's something you've stated that is correct isn't anything , anyone here was even asking about.

I've seen staggered stacks on 4 cylinder road racing cars and smallblock Ford engines, among others. i'm sure you have. and i can tell you with out a doubt, they were compensating for something else that was incorrect in their combination.

And...staggered stacks on a little bitty motorcycle engine. They work the same way. perhaps you could show the ENTIRE head and intake tract before you surmise that this one shot explains anything about your idea.  these are also in an air box. while not a plenum, the air box design could be causing the air pressure at each poor to vary.

\

And then there's this guy... he's funny.

as far as building models goes guys. the first 2 pics bill showed are absolutely what your looking for.

the third. is a big block chevy with standard big block chevy heads. thus, the staggered injector length.

when i need my pipe organ tuned.......i'll give you a call bill.

[Ace-Garageguy]

 

when i need my pipe organ tuned.......i'll give you a call bill.

You often seem to feel the need to call me out on technical matters I know quite well. I don't know why you want to make me look wrong, but feel free.

In this case, not a damm thing I posted was incorrect or misleading. Intake tract design is complex, and I only touched on a couple of points, mostly to respond to your post calling me out...as is this response.

100 years of testing intake tracts on flow-benches with manometers, with the data recorded and analyzed, coupled with the last few decades' advances in micro-pressure-sensing technology that have given engineers the ability to SEE the pressure wave bouncing around in an intake tract as it happens, and CFD (computational fluid dynamics) making use of all of that accumulated data, has made the initial design of intake and exhaust systems far more accurate than in the past...but the physics is all exactly the same as it ever was...and extensive testing to verify any design is always necessary.

Far as port runners feeding from a common plenum go, they produce a reflected pressure wave from the open end of the runner at the plenum (just like a stack does) and a smaller and more confused reflected pressure wave from the opening to atmosphere or the throttle body, edges of the air box, or whatever...or any other ring or bump or sharp edge in the intake tract. The physics in all cases is identical.

The "organ pipe" principle is well known by that name in engine design, and has been for about 100 years.

I'm not a big-block expert (nor have I ever claimed to be), having only done very limited work on only a couple of those particular engines, but my research into the port design since your earlier comments leads me to believe the port length in the heads isn't the issue so much as the direction the ports channel the charge as it enters the combustion chamber. The port length itself could hardly account for the varying length of the stacks on any one big-block Chevy engine to my eye, but only flow-bench and dyno testing could possibly verify one way or another.

Staggering stack or runner length on any engine, while probably causing a decrease in the MAXIMUM power and torque produced, can be very useful in BROADENING and FLATTENING the power and torque curves. On a short and twisty road-racing track where it may be difficult or impossible to gear to keep the engine close to it's power and torque-peak RPM all the time, this can be of real benefit.

Tell me please, which of the above statements is incorrect, or contradicts anything I stated earlier.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

EFI and "streetable" or not, stack length has an effect on the torque curve, because it effects when the reflected pressure wave hits the intake valve at a particular RPM (the "organ pipe" principle). It's all in the engineering books for anyone to see (and I'll be happy to post the equations if anybody is interested  ).please, feel free to post. i love to learn things that are new and relevant.

Here you go...

https://www.engr.colostate.edu/~allan/fluids/page7/page7.html

[comp1839]

bottom manifold is a big block.

it's also efi. totally streetable.

staggered length stacks are only big block specific to equalize the intake tract runner length. for those that don't know big block chevy's have a long and a short intake runner in the head.

length of the tube is tuned to the operating range of the engine/ drivetrain combo.

i'll stand by it because it's correct.

spend 10 more minutes researching the head thing before you give up. you might learn something.

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by comp1839

[Muncie]

bottom manifold is a big block.

it's also efi. totally streetable.

staggered length stacks are only big block specific to equalize the intake tract runner length. for those that don't know big block chevy's have a long and a short intake runner in the head.

length of the tube is tuned to the operating range of the engine/ drivetrain combo.

i'll stand by it because it's correct.

spend 10 more minutes researching the head thing before you give up. you might learn something.

 

Correct, there is that much difference in the length of the intake ports in a big block Chevy head - the Can Am racers in the 1960's had it figured out.  The ports on the intake side are in pairs, the ports on the exhaust side are evenly spaced.  One of intake ports in each pair must be longer to get to from the manifold to the intake valve and it's not a straight shot.  The stack length has to be staggered to make the total length from the top of the intake to the valve equal for all of the intake ports.

As far as stack length on a small Chevy... they are tuned for the operating RPM of the engine where power is required.  A common engine in the gas classes of the 1960's was a 301 Chevy small block with a 10,000 plus RPM top end - loved the sound of those screamers off the line - short stacks for high RPM, small displacement engine!   Kind of different deal at the same time over on the 1/4 mile dirt ovals, Larger engines and tuned for torque out of the corner were the hot ticket- so taller fuel injection stacks.  Some racers tried other things, but generally these rules held true.

A couple of other choices for scale small block Chevy fuel injection - Speed City Resin has a couple of manifolds and metal stacks in different lengths.  Some of the dirt track kits have engines with fuel injection.  The Monogram sprint cars have a very nice engine with fuel injection, but it's a bit too late for a '60's gasser.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Muncie

[Snake45]

Correct, there is that much difference in the length of the intake ports in a big block Chevy head - the Can Am racers in the 1960's had it figured out.  The ports on the intake side are in pairs, the ports on the exhaust side are evenly spaced.  One of intake ports in each pair must be longer to get to from the manifold to the intake valve and it's not a straight shot.  The stack length has to be staggered to make the total length from the top of the intake to the valve equal for all of the intake ports.

As far as stack length on a small Chevy... they are tuned for the operating RPM of the engine where power is required.  A common engine in the gas classes of the 1960's was a 301 Chevy small block with a 10,000 plus RPM top end - loved the sound of those screamers off the line - short stacks for high RPM, small displacement engine!   Kind of different deal at the same time over on the 1/4 mile dirt ovals, Larger engines and tuned for torque out of the corner were the hot ticket- so taller fuel injection stacks.  Some racers tried other things, but generally these rules held true.

A couple of other choices for scale small block Chevy fuel injection - Speed City Resin has a couple of manifolds and metal stacks in different lengths.  Some of the dirt track kits have engines with fuel injection.  The Monogram sprint cars have a very nice engine with fuel injection, but it's a bit too late for a '60's gasser.

Nicely done!

[Greg Myers]

AMT Double Dragster kit