50,000 + kits from just one mold ?

[Greg Myers]

From what I understand hot plastic injected  into two mold halves put together and out comes the kit.

And this is done over and over 50,000 + times ? 

Here's a picture of some molds  from Casey on another thread

[High octane]

I saw some of those molds when I had visited the AMT plant in 1976.

[Mr mopar]

wouldn't  it be nice to know what there are ?

[Greg Myers]

Nothing of note here, just molds for kit numbers H-1551 and H-1251:

 

 and how many others ? 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Greg Myers

[Greg Myers]

From Casey's last page post http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/109103-what-amtmpc-molds-might-still-exist-at-round-2/?page=9

[Casey]

7 hours ago, Greg Myers said:

 just molds for kit numbers H-1551 and H-1251:

Those two kit numbers are what I believe the bottom two (in red, with stenciled yellow numbers) are. H-1231 is the other possibility instead of H-1251, and H-1231 is the Revell 1/32 Chrysler New Yorker, which was reissued in 1996. It looks more like a "5" than a "3" to me, though.

I looked up some of the other numbers which I think I could make out correctly, and they are all Revell or Renwal aircraft. The fact that some of these still exist is good, but only the first piece of the puzzle.

Here's the original article which was posted here on the forum a few years ago: https://craftsmanship.net/parts-recreation/

[Phirewriter]

Far more than 50,000 when you consider how many times kits have been reissued over the course of 50+ years. Take AMT's Trophy Series for example, '32 Ford's, '40 coupe and sedan, '49 Mercury to name a few.

[lysleder]

I seem to remember seeing written somewhere that MPC's General Lee Charger is probably America's most produced kit with an estimated one million copies out of the same mold. And all of them with the incorrect rear window..

[Chuck Most]

Yep- I work in the injection molding industry (not model kits, though ) and 50,000 units from one mold is actually pretty tame. Yes, molds do wear out from use, and not just from friction- when that press closes those mold halves are under anywhere from five to three hundred tons of clamping pressure, depending on size of the mold, size of the molded part, viscosity of the compound being used, etc. . I'm guessing that a part just molding plastic would be less susceptible to damage than a rubber part which requires a metal insert, like what I deal with at work. If one of those inserts is misaligned it can damage the mold. You'd never know from looking at it, but a .030" thick pressed-steel insert can dent a solid steel mold when you're dealing with those kinds of clamping pressures. A good die setter can fix that, but still not something you want to happen to a quarter-million-dollar chunk of steel!

I've learned that the injection molding process is almost equal parts science and art. Sometimes the machine/mold/compound combination just doesn't want to cooperate, and it takes a little skill with making adjustments to get everything humming along in harmony. 

[Art Anderson]

2 hours ago, Chuck Most said:

Yep- I work in the injection molding industry (not model kits, though ) and 50,000 units from one mold is actually pretty tame. Yes, molds do wear out from use, and not just from friction- when that press closes those mold halves are under anywhere from five to three hundred tons of clamping pressure, depending on size of the mold, size of the molded part, viscosity of the compound being used, etc. . I'm guessing that a part just molding plastic would be less susceptible to damage than a rubber part which requires a metal insert, like what I deal with at work. If one of those inserts is misaligned it can damage the mold. You'd never know from looking at it, but a .030" thick pressed-steel insert can dent a solid steel mold when you're dealing with those kinds of clamping pressures. A good die setter can fix that, but still not something you want to happen to a quarter-million-dollar chunk of steel!

I've learned that the injection molding process is almost equal parts science and art. Sometimes the machine/mold/compound combination just doesn't want to cooperate, and it takes a little skill with making adjustments to get everything humming along in harmony. 

It's not uncommon for hardened steel molds to produce a million, even more units when molding polystyrene, as it's not the plastic that causes the wear, but rather the alignment and ejector pins, and their relative holes.

Art

[Greg Myers]

The point. or more accurate the question I have presented here. isn't the total number of kits from any one mold. but the fact that maybe the first run. or any run can produce 50,000 kits',

Imagine the effort and time to open and close just that one mold 50,000 times.

How many people would be working on this type of project?

How long would it take to crank out 50,000 kits ?

[Greg Myers]

 The other point, what other gems are hidden in this pile? I know the aircraft builders would be all over this Allison kit, not to mention the clamoring for the old MOPAR.

[Chuck Most]

8 hours ago, Art Anderson said:

It's not uncommon for hardened steel molds to produce a million, even more units when molding polystyrene, as it's not the plastic that causes the wear, but rather the alignment and ejector pins, and their relative holes.

Art

Forgot about that! Sometimes those guide pins will shear, but sometimes they'll put some serious dings in the tool.

 

[wku88]

24 minutes ago, Greg Myers said:

The point. or more accurate the question I have presented here. isn't the total number of kits from any one mold. but the fact that maybe the first run. or any run can produce 50,000 kits',

Imagine the effort and time to open and close just that one mold 50,000 times.

How many people would be working on this type of project?

How long would it take to crank out 50,000 kits ?

A model kit is pretty simple compared to some of the injected molded parts I deal with. If a cooling fan shroud made from glass fiber reinforced Nylon can be shot in less than 90 second cycle time, I'm sure a kit could be less.  How long is 50,000 minutes? 34.7 days....   Injection molding is most consistent when allowed to run uninterrupted. Keep the bin full of resin, and barring a failure, 50k kits could be done in 5 or 6 weeks.

 

 

[Casey]

24 minutes ago, Greg Myers said:

The other point, what other gems are hidden in this pile?

Tell us what you see. Enlarge the image, get out your magnifying glass, and let us know.

I think I also saw:

Revell H-105 Nakajima J1N1-5 Gekko

Revell H-0130 Convair F-120A Delta Dagger

Renwal 284 Frank Hawk's Heddon Jenny

Maybe?: Revell 620 1/72 Hawker Tempest

 

 

[Art Anderson]

Someone on Facebook (Dean Milano, perhaps, who worked for Monogram--later Revell Monogram for several years) posted a couple of pics on a model car group that showed the company's "model kit hall of fame" which showed several million-selling model kits.  AMT Corporation, in producing the Original Series "USS Enterprise" ship, had it originally tooled in aluminum, figuring it would be just a one-hit wonder.  Turns out they were wrong, and within a year or so, they had two complete sets of tooling, cut in steel--and sold MILLIONS of that kit over the years.

 

Art

[gotnitro?]

Impressive to say the least! Funny to ponder a warehouse full of these molds just sitting there waiting to hopefully be used again and not sold for scrap

My employer used to make powdered metal sprockets and gears. It was amazing watching the powder similar to dust compacted into a sprocket in seconds...thousands of time per week.watched a row of parts green(before heat treating) from compaction hanging on pin rack start warping like taffy. 

 

[Paul Hettick]

Ten or Twelve years ago I was provided with a test shot Revell 62 Fury To be a box art car. What came out of the mold looked good. Got it painted and the chrome work done then the project was dropped. I can't remember what the reason was. The Revell 62 Newport conv. was also supposed to be there and there was talk on reissuing that but it did not happen either. The 62 Dodge Dart 4 dr became a drag car, who knows where the Valiant, Imperial, and the Valiant based Dodge are hiding.

[ChrisBcritter]

Very interesting to hear... did you get any photos, and did you get to keep the model?

[Classicgas]

I have a hard time believing they would get to the point of test shots for box art and drop a project. I'd like to see some proof.

[Phirewriter]

I did box art building for Revell/Monogram in the 90's and have seen it happen a number of times. Many things can cause projects to halt at almost any time during development even if it is just a reissue.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Phirewriter

[Casey]

6 hours ago, Phirewriter said:

I did box art building for Revell/Monogram in the 90's and have seen it happen a number of times. 

Can you mention those kits you built models of which never saw production?

 

20 hours ago, Paul Hettick said:

Ten or Twelve years ago I was provided with a test shot Revell 62 Fury To be a box art car. What came out of the mold looked good. Got it painted and the chrome work done then the project was dropped. I can't remember what the reason was. The Revell 62 Newport conv. was also supposed to be there and there was talk on reissuing that but it did not happen either. The 62 Dodge Dart 4 dr became a drag car, who knows where the Valiant, Imperial, and the Valiant based Dodge are hiding.

I have to think the pre-orders and retailers' interest in a '60s era '62 Plymouth Fury model were not exactly encouraging.

Did you build any others which never saw production, Paul?

[Paul Hettick]

No others Casey. Sure would be fun to know what all is out there.

[ChrisBcritter]

43 minutes ago, Casey said:

I have to think the pre-orders and retailers' interest in a '60s era '62 Plymouth Fury model were not exactly encouraging.

Probably the same as the interest in a '62 Buick Electra, but it keeps getting reissued . I bet if Round2 bought the molds, we'd see the Plymouth and Chrysler on the shelves again.

[ChrisBcritter]

Paul, did you get any tires with the Plymouth? Weren't they one of the missing molds?