niteowl7710 Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said: Bob refuses to acknowledge (or possibly even understand...though it's been explained) that Flintstone can make silicone molds for a copy of something for an investment in the HUNDREDS of dollars, but that it takes TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars to make steel tooling for injection molding. Throw in the CAD design cost for something that's never been done before, and you're probably into 100 grand. The simplistic way Bob sees it is "if Flintstone can do it, the real companies can too". Okayyyyyy..... Possibly throw in there a lack of understanding of how business even works, risk, the cost of capital, etc. etc., or that when you're running a company that has slender margins, borrowing heavily for tooling and design can drive you into the toilet if the cost of servicing the debt incurred on a BAD GUESS is too high. Hobbico's top heavy debt on loans just to keep going...not additional heavy tooling expenditures...is apparently what killed them. My question wasn't the financial viability of resin in a plastic kit, or resin over plastic pieces. It was WHY Jimmy Flintstone. Again not knocking the guy per se, but there are a lot of better casters out there making parts. I presume it's because Jimmy is slush casting with very little QC it makes his stuff cheap...and we all know cheapness sells to a certain market segment around these parts. Edited March 11, 2018 by niteowl7710
Ace-Garageguy Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, niteowl7710 said: My question was the financia viability of resin in a plastic kit, or resin over plastic pieces. It was WHY Jimmy Flintstone. Again not knocking the guy per se, but there are a lot of better casters out there making parts. I presume it's because Jimmy is slush casting with very little QC it makes his stuff cheap...and we all know cheapness sells to a certain market segment around these parts. I think Bob just settled on Flintstone because he comes readily to mind as a resin caster, even to people who don't really understand the difference between quality and crapp. It could just as well have been ANY resin caster in Bob's comparison. Apples and bowling balls, either way. Edited March 11, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy
Renegade Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 I would like to see a parts pack of emergency light bars. Could be used on police, ambulance, wreckers, service trucks, and I'm sure a few other applications.
martinfan5 Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Renegade said: I would like to see a parts pack of emergency light bars. Could be used on police, ambulance, wreckers, service trucks, and I'm sure a few other applications. No need for that in the parts pack, light bars are very easy to get right now.
Richard Bartrop Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said: I know one thing a lot of us probably WOULD buy: a single sprue of nothing but beautifully engraved clear generic 5" and 7" sealed-beam headlight lenses, plus some flat ones in various diameters appropriate for older vintage cars. Or maybe half a sprue of that, and the other half generic taillights (easily tinted red) appropriate to hot-rods and customs. Flats, several kinds of bullets, etc. I get tired of having to rob kits for this stuff, and then find or make repops if the kit ever comes up to get built. Anybody doing restos or upgrades need these things...judging from the number of threads started about dealing with chrome headlights, or making clear lenses. They also tend to get lost easily, glue spotted, whatever, and none of the kits give you spares. I could go for that. I'm sifting through my parts boxes for four Lucas style headlamps for a custom rod build. Heck, even if they didn't bother with actual taillights, and someone like Evergreen put out some clear rod and strip stock, that would be extremely useful.
regular guy Posted March 12, 2018 Author Posted March 12, 2018 I would like to see Parts Packs from the 50 and 60's. They should be for Customizing and Advanced Customizing/Styline. Clear and simple.Anything else is getting off subject. Customizing makes building the kits fun and interesting. Took a look at the '62 Pontiac Catalina kit on my shelf.It included Customizing parts not Advanced or Styline. So as of right now the '62 Buick Electra 225 with Styline parts looks like a good move for me. Plus the '57 Fantasy Parts Pack.
1972coronet Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 I really like the generic 5"-7" headlamp lenses idea ! Chrome headlamps ruin an otherwise "convincing" kit ! IMO , all kit glass should be cast clear ! I despise having to paint back-up lamps white ( pearl or otherwise ! ) , as it never looks right . Well , at least tail lamps are less offensive than chromed headlamps . Another idea I've had for Parts Packs is : Brake Master Cylinders , both 1966 & earlier and 1967 & up styles .
niteowl7710 Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 1 hour ago, regular guy said: I would like to see Parts Packs from the 50 and 60's. They should be for Customizing and Advanced Customizing/Styline. Clear and simple.Anything else is getting off subject. Customizing makes building the kits fun and interesting. Took a look at the '62 Pontiac Catalina kit on my shelf.It included Customizing parts not Advanced or Styline. So as of right now the '62 Buick Electra 225 with Styline parts looks like a good move for me. Plus the '57 Fantasy Parts Pack. The '62 Catalina has custom parts that were tooled up in the 1990s so AMT/Ertl would have a second variant of the kit to sell to amortize the cost of a new kit. It's literally no connection to these "Glory Day" Parts Pack things you want so badly. I don't believe the Catalina was ever offered as a 2n1 with all of the parts in a single box until the most recent Round2 reissue as a matter of fact.
bobthehobbyguy Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 The things I see as parts pack winners are definitely tire packs. The only cost is packaging and the cost of a run ofwheels and tires. The headlights sound like a winner. Another possiblity would be traditional street rod parts. Quick changes, dropped axles, etc. The losers would be custom parts and uphostery kits. Just don't see interior materials as there are better ways to do it. Just look in all the projects here and I doubt you'll find an uphostered interior. Same as parts packs how many projects do you see using the old style custom parts. Second the old kits were not really laid out to be able to run them as seperate parts packs.
Richard Bartrop Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 There was a resin caster in another group who gave up on custom interior kits because nobody was buying them. I'm thinking if there isn't enough of a market to support resin, then there probably isn't enough of one to support cutting a set of injection moulds.
Force Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said: Bob refuses to acknowledge (or possibly even understand...though it's been explained) that Flintstone can make silicone molds for a copy of something for an investment in the HUNDREDS of dollars, but that it takes TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars to make steel tooling for injection molding. Throw in the CAD design cost for something that's never been done before, and you're probably into 100 grand. The simplistic way Bob sees it is "if Flintstone can do it, the real companies can too". Okayyyyyy..... Possibly throw in there a lack of understanding of how business even works, risk, the cost of capital, etc. etc., or that when you're running a company that has slender margins, borrowing heavily for tooling and design can drive you into the toilet if the cost of servicing the debt incurred on a BAD GUESS is too high. Hobbico's top heavy debt on loans just to keep going...not additional heavy tooling expenditures...is apparently what killed them. The costs to do silicone molds and copy things others have done or from their own masters, and do a steel tool from scratch for an injection molding machine is not on the same planet cost wise as you said, and I don't think our friend Bob has realized that if he compares the model manufacturers and resin casters as he do. They don't work in the same way and the only way a parts pack is doable for model manufacturers is if the tooling for the things are allready done, are in good condition, and if it's practical and economical to do a run from the tooling without too much labour and material used. And if we look at this from the MFG side these parts packs must have a chance to be profitable, otherwise it's no use doing them...and parts packs hasn't made much profit nor have they been huge sellers in the past...otherwise we would have lots of these parts packs on the market allready. Revell planned to do 4 motor cycle parts packs at the same time they did the engine packs but as the engine packs didn't sell that well they canceled the MC's and most likely all other potential parts packs they had thought of doing. Edited March 12, 2018 by Force
Richard Bartrop Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 I've actually made a resin figure kit, though nothing nearly on the scale of Mr. Flintstone. Basically, a pound or two of RTV, and some time, and you're in business. By the time you've sold a couple of kits, you've covered your setup costs. On the other hand, it is more labour intensive, and resin isn't cheap, so your unit costs are higher. This is why resin kits cost as much as they do, and why companies like AMT don't do everything this way.
regular guy Posted March 12, 2018 Author Posted March 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Richard Bartrop said: why companies like AMT don't do everything this way AMT could have a little 'Custom Shop' for making resin parts. Sell little 'Pro Modeller Packs' of low production parts. They would have the available plastic parts right there to work from. I think adult modelers could live without the 'Parts Pack' packaging. That way the parts would get out there. They could farm it out. Just have it 'Approved By AMT'.
Richard Bartrop Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 Orrrr, you could do it, and show us all how wrong we are.
regular guy Posted March 12, 2018 Author Posted March 12, 2018 22 hours ago, LDO said: But I REALLY WANT a Lycoming 420ci flathead straight-8 and a Franklin air-cooled flat-12 Everybody's favorite! History lesson time! Guy in California about a year ago had an unusual engine for sale. A Deusenberg flat 12 cylinder 2 stroke engine from a racecar. You would definitely win the 'Stand Around the Garage Look at it With a Beer on Saturday Afternoon' award for that! The things people attempted that failed I find fascinating. I traveled for about 10 years and saw a lot of 'ideas gone wrong'. Like an abandoned Western theme village in El Paso. Very cool! Okay.Back to Parts Packs. There will not be a test on this.
bobthehobbyguy Posted March 12, 2018 Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said: I've actually made a resin figure kit, though nothing nearly on the scale of Mr. Flintstone. Basically, a pound or two of RTV, and some time, and you're in business. By the time you've sold a couple of kits, you've covered your setup costs. On the other hand, it is more labour intensive, and resin isn't cheap, so your unit costs are higher. This is why resin kits cost as much as they do, and why companies like AMT don't do everything this way. Very hard for resin casters to be viable. There have been a few that have been successful but a majority find that just don't make enough money to make it work. Resin casting is low volume. One is doing real well to get 50 copies before the molds break down and need to be replaced. The original parts parts were a failure because of economics. A typical kit was $2. The parts packs were I think like 69 cents or more. To build a model from parts packs required 5 packs. A body, frame, suspension,engine , tires. It all added up to be a losing proposition. Where as a single kit has only one. Edited March 12, 2018 by bobthehobbyguy
Psychographic Posted March 13, 2018 Posted March 13, 2018 I don't think it would be profitable, but I would love to see a suspension pack. Tubular upper and lower A arms with airbags and/or struts for the front. A complete independent rear suspension with bags and coilovers, and 4 link setup for a solid axle with both a panhard and wishbone. I can dream, can't I?
regular guy Posted March 13, 2018 Author Posted March 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Psychographic said: I don't think it would be profitable, but I would love to see a suspension pack. Sounds like you are talking about Pro Street parts. 60's show car frames parts packs exist. The Bill Cushenberry Dream Rod/Tiger Shark has the chrome show frame these parts packs used. Then some other kit had the frame.Maybe the Surf Rod. I can look on the shelf if someone really needs to know.
Psychographic Posted March 13, 2018 Posted March 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, regular guy said: Sounds like you are talking about Pro Street parts. 60's show car frames parts packs exist. The Bill Cushenberry Dream Rod/Tiger Shark has the chrome show frame these parts packs used. Then some other kit had the frame.Maybe the Surf Rod. I can look on the shelf if someone really needs to know. Not necessarily for pro street, these could be used for a variety of cars. I have no interest in old chrome frames, they are easy to build. Building suspension components are a PITA, so having parts to use without sacrificing a whole kit, would be nice. But I doubt there are enough people who would buy such a pack, beside the fact that the cost would probably not be low enough to make it worth while to buy over sacrificing a kit and having other left over parts for a few bucks more.
regular guy Posted March 13, 2018 Author Posted March 13, 2018 ' I have no interest in old chrome frames ' Oooh! That's blasphemy! Here's something you might use. I don't know how much suspension is under it though. http://www.hobbylinc.com/amt-2012-corvette-coupe-plastic-model-car-kit-1:25-scale-756 Later model Corvette kits are cheap everywhere. Back to the parts packs. Yep.Suspension one would be a good idea.
bobthehobbyguy Posted March 13, 2018 Posted March 13, 2018 Regular guy. The chrome parts pack frame is not the chassis from the car craft dream rod/tiger shark. They are totally different from one another.
Ace-Garageguy Posted March 13, 2018 Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, regular guy said: Sounds like you are talking about Pro Street parts. PRO TOURING. YOU DON'T RUN IRS UNDER A PRO-STREET CAR. 60's show car frames parts packs exist. The Bill Cushenberry Dream Rod/Tiger Shark has the chrome show frame these parts packs used. NOPE. THE AMT CHROME PARTS-PACK FRAME WAS NEVER IN ANY KIT, AND THE TIGER SHARK FRAME WAS NEVER IN A PARTS-PACK. THE REVELL CUSTOM-CAR CHROME FRAME IS FROM A CORVETTE. Then some other kit had the frame.Maybe the Surf Rod. NOPE. I can look on the shelf if someone really needs to know. Just so you know, I have every parts-pack ever made, multiples of many. Edited March 13, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy
regular guy Posted March 13, 2018 Author Posted March 13, 2018 What kit is the parts pack chassis from then? I heard it was from a kit.Probably heard that right here actually. Anyhow. The Tiger Rod has a chrome show car chassis. So does the 1/12 Lindberg Fiat Dragster Cabriolet. 1/12 is a pretty handy scale. it is right between 1/8 and 1/16. Good tabletop size Part are big enough to work with. I am locked into 1/8 though right now.
regular guy Posted March 13, 2018 Author Posted March 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said: Just so you know, I have every parts-pack ever made, multiples of many. Well we're happy with the Tiger Shark and 1/12 Fiat frames. Use them for reference. Fiat is very cool in that it looks totally custom made. Nice knowing you can just fabricate and the car will get down the road.
Ace-Garageguy Posted March 13, 2018 Posted March 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, regular guy said: What kit is the parts pack chassis from then? I heard it was from a kit.Probably heard that right here actually... And this right here is why I go to so much trouble correcting rampant misinformation posted by people who have no clue as to what they're talking about.
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