A DeLorean... With a V8.

[Lovefordgalaxie]

I love this channel. I always laugh out loud when I watch the videos. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Lovefordgalaxie

[Ace-Garageguy]

Take a pretty awful car and make it a faster pretty awful car.  

[Joe Handley]

There's somebody working on doing a Tesla swap too Bill,  not sure where they plan to hide the batteries in it, but they are planning on using the one of the AWD model gearboxes in it!

 

Forgot the link....

http://teslorean.com/

Edited January 5, 2019 by Joe Handley

[TomZ]

All that weight is behind the rear wheels. This ain't no Porsche. 

[espo]

This could be fun. The De Lorean is scorned by most and I would think you could find onw that needed engine work anyway pretty cheap. Used LS engines are very plentiful and their is an endless supply of standard and after market parts so those parts process should be reasonable. As mentioned the transmission is the wear link and I'm sure there has to be something out there with a transmission that can hold up and then you would have a really fun car without spending a ton of money. 

[djflyer]

Better idea is to follow Porsche's lead - flip it around and make it a mid engine.  If you can make a 911 a mid-engine car, why not a DeLorean?

[Joe Handley]

20 minutes ago, espo said:

This could be fun. The De Lorean is scorned by most and I would think you could find onw that needed engine work anyway pretty cheap. Used LS engines are very plentiful and their is an endless supply of standard and after market parts so those parts process should be reasonable. As mentioned the transmission is the wear link and I'm sure there has to be something out there with a transmission that can hold up and then you would have a really fun car without spending a ton of money. 

I'm wondering how well any generation of 911 trans might work in this situation.

11 minutes ago, djflyer said:

Better idea is to follow Porsche's lead - flip it around and make it a mid engine.  If you can make a 911 a mid-engine car, why not a DeLorean?

Not as possible with the Delorean vs the 911, Air Cooled VWs, or Corvairs. Those seem to have more room between the front seats and rear wheels unless you want to swap a Tornado FWD set up in tbe back.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1) Just about anything would make a better gearbox for LS power than that little Renault piece. Even an old Corvair Saginaw.

2) Having that much engine hanging out behind the rear axle is going to make for an evil-handling, tail-happy beast, just dying to swap ends while braking into a turn. The stock DeLorean isn't known for its handling prowess at the limit. This just makes it worse. Stock, the cars understeer initially, but go towards oversteer when lifting the throttle foot or braking in a turn. On slick pavement, or going fast, this can become deadly in an instant...particularly for relatively unskilled drivers without a lot of practice driving tail-heavy cars.

3) Going mid-engine is possible, but WAY beyond the engineering abilities of the majority of builders. The chassis is of backbone design, with Y members at the ends. To make space for the engine forward of the gearbox, you'd need to redesign the rear of the chassis entirely.

4) And even if you did all that, you still have the DeLorean's 95" wheelbase to contend with. I've done V8 swaps in Porsche 914s, with a 96.5" wheelbase, and the engine cover is where you'd really like to have your right elbow in a perfect world. The DeTomaso Pantera, with an even longer 98.3" wheelbase, STILL suffers from the same thing to an extent.

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[djflyer]

This is the car I was referring to - mid engine '911'. Definitely not air cooled.

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 minutes ago, djflyer said:

This is the car I was referring to - mid engine '911'. Definitely not air cooled.

How does that have anything whatsoever to do with building a mid-engined DeLorean?

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[djflyer]

I simply referenced the idea that Porsche took their rear-engine car and turned it into a mid-engine one.  No argument  that very little remains of the rear-engine chassis (not sure of the driveline) and its a 911 in name only.  Enough of the original car must remain somehow as this car runs in the IMSA production class.

To change a DMC to mid-engine you likely would wind up with something near the Lotus Esprit that carried a V8 in its final variant.  Again, only the concept is the same - back bone chassis, mid-engine V8, obviously different engineering required.  Not easy, certainly not cheap, but I wouldnt be surprised if at least one mid-engine DeLorean exisits somewhere.

[Ace-Garageguy]

See 3 & 4 in my post above.   ^^^

By the by...I have one in the shop as we speak, re-engineering and replacing much of the abysmal electrical and cooling systems with stuff that will actually work. The owner loves the thing, and has mentioned an LS swap. Just for grins, I spent a fair bit of time measuring for a mid-engine configuration too, as building oddball stuff like this is what I do for a living. 

Almost anything is possible, you can just about put ANY engine in ANY vehicle. But in this case, my biggest question is: why bother?

PS. I have a DeLorean service manual with a pic of the initial MID-engined concept on the cover rather than the production version. It looks more like a Gandini-designed Lamborghini, and is strikingly attractive. Think Diablo with a tail profile reminiscent of a Merc C111. Unfortunately, the realities of economics dictated compromise after compromise, and what could have been a truly world-class supercar was dumbed down to become not much more than an automotive oddity.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

PPS. If somebody came to me and just HAD to have an LS in a DeLorean, I'd do my damnedest to convince him to let me do a sidewinder setup. This has been fairly common in Fieros for years, and gets everything installed in a quite limited space.

Though still not an "easy" swap, it should eliminate a fair bit of hacking of the main frame in the little DMC, get the engine out of the cabin, and should handle more like a Miura.

[Joe Handley]

Engine placement is why I'm kinda liking that Tesla motor/gearbox swap Bill. It's small enough that they should be able to position battery cells closer to the firewall and hopefull put as many as possible in place of the gas tank and even in the frunk to try and balance out any of the crazy that rear motor brings to the table.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Joe Handley

[oldcarfan]

I had a Volvo 264 GL with this engine in it. It wasn't bad, I got it up to 140 a couple of times, though that car's boxiness didn't make it easy. I suspect that the LS engine is about the same size and probably weighs about the same.

[Deuces]

Ummm.... What's an ls???? ?

[Ace-Garageguy]

8 hours ago, oldcarfan said:

I had a Volvo 264 GL with this engine in it. It wasn't bad, I got it up to 140 a couple of times, though that car's boxiness didn't make it easy. I suspect that the LS engine is about the same size and probably weighs about the same.

Musta been downhill with a stiff tailwind. The DeLorean version only made about 130 HP, and not a lot of torque. Stock, in a DeLorean, it would be hard pressed to come even close to 140.

And the LS is, of course, a V8, which makes it considerably longer than the 90^o PRV V6, which weighs in at around 360 pounds and is roughly 20 inches long.

The LS1, on the other hand, weighs around 500 pounds with the manual-gearbox flywheel, and is about 27 inches long with accessories.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[espo]

I think the mid-engine idea being put forward does not relate to the DeLorean in the video. First of all the video shows the engine mounted behind the transmission in the area that would have contained the original engine. In my mind that would make it a rear engine set up as a mid - engine would place the engine on the other side of the transmission. I remember an episode of Gas Monkey Garage where they used a water cooled rear engine Porsche where they engine had been destroyed and replaced it with an LS engine. As usual they drive it like they stole it and the transmission didn't break, so I think that might be a viable transmission to use in this application.     

[Joe Handley]

4 minutes ago, espo said:

I think the mid-engine idea being put forward does not relate to the DeLorean in the video. First of all the video shows the engine mounted behind the transmission in the area that would have contained the original engine. In my mind that would make it a rear engine set up as a mid - engine would place the engine on the other side of the transmission. I remember an episode of Gas Monkey Garage where they used a water cooled rear engine Porsche where they engine had been destroyed and replaced it with an LS engine. As usual they drive it like they stole it and the transmission didn't break, so I think that might be a viable transmission to use in this application.     

That's why I brought that up earlier in the thread, short of that Tesla swap I mentioned, I don't know of any suitable transaxles for it other than Porsche's.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, espo said:

I think the mid-engine idea being put forward does not relate to the DeLorean in the video. First of all the video shows the engine mounted behind the transmission in the area that would have contained the original engine. In my mind that would make it a rear engine set up as a mid - engine would place the engine on the other side of the transmission. I remember an episode of Gas Monkey Garage where they used a water cooled rear engine Porsche where they engine had been destroyed and replaced it with an LS engine. As usual they drive it like they stole it and the transmission didn't break, so I think that might be a viable transmission to use in this application.     

Nobody related the possibilities of mid-mounting the engine in a DeLorean to the car in the video to the best of my knowledge. Of course the DeLorean, as delivered, is REAR engined, and the car in the video is REAR engined.

I simply said rear-mounting an LS in one of these things makes a car with marginal handling into a car with awful handling, and suggested that if one HAS to have a significantly heavier engine, hanging it out over the rear end isn't the smart thing to do. And if you don't think that hanging an additional 140 pounds all the way at the back of a car that's a tail-wagging-a-dog to start with is a bad idea...well, you should probably brush up on your principles of vehicle dynamics.

But there's no question that a later model Porsche gearbox would be a vast improvement over the little Renault box, either. Of course, just because it didn't blow up for the TV show doesn't mean it's bulletproof. The big ZF trans in a Pantera and the last Shelby design would be a good choice as well, but dumping the clutch in one repeatedly will still get you a lot of expensive, oily parts on the ground.

And far as Gas Monkey goes, we just happen to have their big old green '29 Packard in the shop too...for a full rebuild and paint. Everything about the car was decidedly mediocre at best...which is why the current owner is having everything done over.

As an aside...an increasingly popular swap that's both cost-effective and results in a car that's actually worth having is an LS in a Porsche Boxster or Cayman. I haven't personally DONE one, but I've driven two, and they work as well as the car did originally...and go like stink.

PS. Electric conversions rarely, if ever, live up to the breathless and overheated hype. Because the means of storing energy onboard is entirely different, electrics need to be designed from the ground up as electrics if their particular attributes are to be realized as a positive. Otherwise, all you usually really get is a glorified golf cart, suitable for Shriner's parades and not much else.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[Joe Handley]

Speaking of weight out back, instead of an LS, why not look at the modern V-6 engines, way more than enough power, especially when compared to the PRV and should be lighter than the LS. The 3.6l Pentastar in my 200 is plenty powerful for the car's 3600lbs and plenty quick for a stock FWD, stick that in a car that is lighter and can better put that power down.  From what I've hear, people are starting to look at GM's 3.6l LFX  V-6 and swapping them into Miatas and while they don't have the biiig shove that the LS Swapped cars have, the make for a better balanced car and have more than enough reliable N/A power for such a little, light car, plus, much like the Pentastar, they stick them in dang near everything they sell including RWD applications!

http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/lfx/

https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=610911

 

And the Pentastar.

https://www.pentastars.com/

 

Most useful part of this swap beyond the commonality, is that both engines use single outlet exhaust ports on the heads, which makes things easier when dealing with getting the fumes out of the engine and into the rest of the exhaust system

 

Did a little looking, looks like these engines are both under 350lbs, can't find weight for the N/A Ford Duratec V-6 yet though

Edited January 6, 2019 by Joe Handley

[Ace-Garageguy]

8 minutes ago, Joe Handley said:

Speaking of weight out back, instead of an LS, why not look at the modern V-6 engines...

Agreed 100%. The 60^O V6 in the recent Mustangs is good for something around 300HP too, if I remember right, and its torque wouldn't instantly shred the little Renault box either.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Here's another one with a V8.

 

[Joe Handley]

Here's pone that still has a PRV motor in it, now making about 220 N/A HP and weighing in at 2500lbs!

 

[Fat Brian]

We had a Traverse LTZ with the 280 some odd hp 3.6 and that thing would scoot pretty good for a medium sized SUV. Most of the power feels really high in the power band but once it started coming on I never found the end of it in normal driving situations. I could see it being a popular swap where space is limited or you need a nontraditional mounting orientation.