Speed parts identification, and period useage

[mod3l Lover]

Sorry, my pic didn't work.

[garagepunk66]

On 10/24/2019 at 6:40 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

1) Blower in first post is a generic "oval case" GMC 6-71. The junkyard cases varied considerably depending on what the blower was originally installed on. Remember...in the early days, these things were salvaged from trucks, mining equipment, military landing craft, etc. Front drives and rear covers varied considerably too. The mounting flange on the oval-case units isn't seen.

2) Yup, the one in the '57 Chebby is supposed to be a S.C.o.T blower, but it's not a very good one. The real unit has a lot more ribs. Replicas and Miniatures makes one that's a real jewel.

3) And yes, the '25 T kit has a Latham Axial Flow unit. These didn't make much boost at low RPM, and were expensive to manufacture.

4) The "doesn't look the same" unit is a bottom-flange style GMC 4-71. This mounting flange is more common than the oval-case style on old race cars, but the internal workings are the same.

EDIT: For reference, the Potvin (and knockoff) crank-driven blower rigs usually...but not always...used the oval-case blower housings...

EDIT 2: Here's a shot of an oval-case unit mounted like in the first post...

On 10/24/2019 at 11:38 AM, Greg Myers said:

Let's start with this one from an early AMT '40 Ford

I have no idea what type blower this is supposed to represent.

The "oval case" GMC blower in the AMT 40 Ford is typical of a unit modified by pioneer hot rodder Tom Beatty. He, and other builders modified the cases, trimming away the large mounting flange, and counter bored the inside of the case for Allen head bolts to retain it to the manifold. This process was commonly referred to as "case pruning"

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by garagepunk66

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 11/10/2019 at 7:38 PM, garagepunk66 said:

The "oval case" GMC blower in the AMT 40 Ford is typical of a unit modified by pioneer hot rodder Tom Beatty. He, and other builders modified the cases, trimming away the large mounting flange, and counter bored the inside of the case for Allen head bolts to retain it to the manifold. This process was commonly referred to as "case pruning"

It's also similar to  GMC / Roots style blowers made by several other manufacturers for a variety of industrial and military applications by companies including Roots itself, the Pesco division of Borg Warner, Schwitzer-Cummins, and a variety of aftermarket manufacturers (like Penco, a GMC 53-series knockoff designed by an ex-GM engineer, that used GMC rotors and that had drive snouts very like the unit shown on the instruction sheet above) that have come and gone. Here's one made by Melee-Dexter:

Edited November 22, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[garagepunk66]

On 11/21/2019 at 8:41 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

It's also similar to  GMC / Roots style blowers made by several other manufacturers for a variety of industrial and military applications by companies including Roots itself, the Pesco division of Borg Warner, Schwitzer-Cummins, and a variety of aftermarket manufacturers (like Penco, a GMC 53-series knockoff designed by an ex-GM engineer, that used GMC rotors and that had drive snouts very like the unit shown on the instruction sheet above) that have come and gone. Here's one made by Melee-Dexter:

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/how-is-a-pruned-blower-case-mounted.999144/

[Greg Myers]

On 10/24/2019 at 9:50 AM, Greg Myers said:

Maybe I should have started with this one from AMT's '25 Tee kits.

 The Latham Axial Flow Blower was kinda different from most blowers modelers were familiar with.

I've seen a few of these recently on FB mounted backwards.

[Snake45]

2 hours ago, Greg Myers said:

I've seen a few of these recently on FB mounted backwards.

As I understand it, there are a LOT of things on FB that are backwards. And sideways. And upside down. Yet another reason I'll have nothing to do with the place. 

[Jantrix]

I picked these up at a swap meet in a bag marked BBC. Now upon examination, the port spacing seems wrong for a big block. The size seems right, as well as distributor/thermostat housing locations,  but I can't find a 1:1 example of this. Anyone? IDing the kit would help. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Jantrix

[Jack L]

9 hours ago, Jantrix said:

I picked these up at a swap meet in a bag marked BBC. Now upon examination, the port spacing seems wrong for a big block. The size seems right, as well as distributor/thermostat housing locations,  but I can't find a 1:1 example of this. Anyone? IDing the kit would help. 

1970 AMT Corvette

[Jantrix]

2 hours ago, Jack L said:

1970 AMT Corvette

This took me a while to track down. Turns out there's two AMT 1970 Corvette kits. The one with this intake is the older 3n1 annual.

Thanks very much Jack. At least I know it was meant for a BBC. Whether it's correct for a BBC in its design is another matter. I'm probably going to use it in any case.

@Ace-Garageguy, can you weigh in here?

Edited March 16, 2021 by Jantrix

[Ace-Garageguy]

22 minutes ago, Jantrix said:

@Acegarageguy, can you weigh in here?

Gladly. It's acceptable for a big-block Chevy, but not ideal.

The spacing of the openings on the ports would imply it was intended for four 1-barrel carbs, and there is no indication of the manifold ports being split prior to going into the head ports.

There would be little reason in reality to mount downdraft Webers on those "Y" manifold adaptors, other than to accommodate an unnecessarily restrictive main manifold.

The location of the ports is generally OK though (barring the fact that individual runners are paired on the real engine), and the thermostat housing and distributor hole are kinda OK too.

The manifold (below) shows the actual locations of the ports, coolant outlet, and distributor drive hole. You'll have to decide if you can live with the kit part.

EDIT: This is a proper big-block Chevy Weber downdraft manifold. There are others, but this is the general layout. (below)

EDIT 2:  Here's a one-piece casting with shorter runners. (below)

                             

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Ace-Garageguy

[Jantrix]

15 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

You decide if you can live with the kit part.

Thanks Bill. Much appreciated. Not much reason to add this to a model aside from visual interest. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 minutes ago, Jantrix said:

Thanks Bill. Much appreciated. Not much reason to add this to a model aside from visual interest. 

With some fiddly fill and file work, the kit manifold could be converted to resemble the one-piece manifold I posted above as EDIT 2, and the Y-adapters could be removed from the carbs.

It all comes down to whether you're happy with a good looking model that's not exactly representative of reality, or whether you obsess over technical accuracy (as I usually do...and which leads me into difficulties that significantly delay finishing anything).

Either way, it's solely the builder's choice...and 95% of folks looking at a model aren't going to know the difference anyway.

[Jantrix]

2 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Either way, it's solely the builder's choice...and 95% of folks looking at a model aren't going to know the difference anyway.

Good advice. I have another intake that might work.

Normally I'd agree and use the whatever looks good, but this is for a '68 Vette I'm doing for this years Cannonball CBP and I want it to look the part.

[Snake45]

3 minutes ago, Jantrix said:

this is for a '68 Vette I'm doing for this years Cannonball CBP and I want it to look the part.

Have you compared it with the Weber BBC setup in the AMT '63 Corvette? That might work better for you. 

It also might fit under the Revell kit's L88 hood. I believe I built my AMT '69 Vette annual with that Weber setup (the one you're asking about) and it required the hood with the hole in it. When the '63 Weber setup is used in the AMT '63 kit, it also requires a special hood, but your Revell Vette has the L88 hood which might be enough clearance. 

[Jantrix]

@Snake45. Thanks Snake. I don't have the '63 intake. But this was just on of the idea's I'm kicking around. I also have the dual quad intake from the Revell pro-street Malibu, an LM4 from the SSR, the LT5 from the AMT ZR1 kit, and a few other options. I'm leaning toward the LM4 or just using the Revell kit engine as is.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Jantrix

[Snake45]

31 minutes ago, Jantrix said:

@Snake45. Thanks Snake. I don't have the '63 intake. But this was just on of the idea's I'm kicking around. I also have the dual quad intake from the Revell pro-street Malibu, an LM4 from the SSR, the LT5 from the AMT ZR1 kit, and a few other options. I'm leaning toward the LM4 or just using the Revell kit engine as is.

I don't think the dual quad hi-rise pro street setup would work well for Cannonball. Remember, gas mileage is (IMO) as important as brute horsepower. I'm going with a single 4-barrel on mine for that reason. 

[Jantrix]

23 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

I don't think the dual quad hi-rise pro street setup would work well for Cannonball. Remember, gas mileage is (IMO) as important as brute horsepower. I'm going with a single 4-barrel on mine for that reason. 

Excellent point.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Snake45 said:

Have you compared it with the Weber BBC setup in the AMT '63 Corvette?

If I remember correctly, the Webers in that kit are side-drafts mounted as downdrafts.

About as technically accurate as mounting a Holley upside down.

And here's a point in favor of running a single 4-barrel for a Cannonball car...the big-block in the '66 Chevelle (real car) I'm finishing up dynoed at 750HP+ with a single 4-barrel Holley.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Another tech point about building a Cannonball car...while I'm not a huge fan of the complication of running EFI, it CAN significantly improve drivability and fuel mileage if tuned correctly...and if side-of-the-road-repair spares are carried.

The FAST system we're currently running on the Chevelle uses what's essentially an Edelbrock single-plane 4-bbl manifold, with the port runners drilled for the injectors.

The central throttle body looks like a simplified carb, and houses the MAF, TP, and other sensors.

Peak HP is about the same as with the Holley, but both power and torque curves are flatter, and fuel consumption is better.

Photo below is the very similar Edelbrock system, but the FAST throttle body and rails are red.

[Jantrix]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Another tech point about building a Cannonball car...while I'm not a huge fan of the complication of running EFI, it CAN significantly improve drivability and fuel mileage if tuned correctly...and if side-of-the-road-repair spares are carried.

The FAST system we're currently running on the Chevelle uses what's essentially an Edelbrock single-plane 4-bbl manifold, with the port runners drilled for the injectors.

The central throttle body looks like a simplified carb, and houses the MAF, TP, and other sensors.

Peak HP is about the same as with the Holley, but both power and torque curves are flatter, and fuel consumption is better.

Excellent suggestion. I'll look into this. Thanks.

And I won't need side-of-the-road-repair spares, as my 1/25 Cannonballers always run great. 😄

Edited March 16, 2021 by Jantrix

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Jantrix said:

...And I won't need side-of-the-road-repair spares, as my 1/25 Cannonballers always run great. 😄

Yup, I'm sure they would.    

[Mr. Metallic]

On 3/16/2021 at 11:15 AM, Jantrix said:

@Snake45. Thanks Snake. I don't have the '63 intake. But this was just on of the idea's I'm kicking around. I also have the dual quad intake from the Revell pro-street Malibu, an LM4 from the SSR, the LT5 from the AMT ZR1 kit, and a few other options. I'm leaning toward the LM4 or just using the Revell kit engine as is.

If you would like to trade this intake for the one from the 63 vette with webers setup send me a pm. I like building survivor type cars and this intake, since it appears to be a flight of fancy, would look great on a mid-late 60 show rod or custom. 

Even if you don't want the 63 intake, but would be willing to part with the one you have let me know and maybe we can work something out.

[Paul Payne]

An important speed part that I had never realized had been offered in kit form was the centrifugal supercharger. The most famous application was for the Novi Indy race cars. A similar if not identical supercharger was offered as a custom option in the AMT 1963 Ford pickup, and is also available through Replicas and Miniatures of Maryland. These superchargers were mechanically driven as opposed to turbochargers which used a second impellor driven by scavenging exhaust gasses.

[Paul Payne]

Can a Columbia 2 speed rear axle be used on 49 and 50 Fords and Mercuries?

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 7/16/2021 at 12:34 PM, Paul Payne said:

Can a Columbia 2 speed rear axle be used on 49 and 50 Fords and Mercuries?

Missed this question...been kinda busy.  

Anyway, anything will work in pretty much anything, within reason, with enough mods and fabrication.

The Columbia is made for a "closed driveline" or "torque-tube" setup, but could be converted to an "open" style driveshaft coupling. The only other major mod required would be replacing the buggy-spring perches with semi-elliptic perches welded to the axle housings.

How long it would live under a much heavier car is another question entirely.