Primer to avoid

[randyc]

  On 8/15/2020 at 12:37 PM, Plowboy said:

I switched to Tamiya only a couple or more years ago and haven't looked back. I primer every single part right down to the coil and distributor. I can easily get two builds out of one can. So, I figure I have 5-6 dollars in getting a model in primer. To me, it's worth that to not have to worry about having issues such as this. Not to mention it's the best primer I've ever used. Beats them all hands down! Even the original Plasti Kote. The new by Valspar is garbage.

Saving a few dollars doesn't always save a few dollars. Sometimes, it costs you. I bet right now you would gladly fork over the extra money for Tamiya. So, why not do it always? If the cost is an issue, just use it on the bodies and use the cheap stuff on the rest.

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I have a can of tamiya.  Didn't really like it, but didn't take time to get used to it.   I reprimed both cars with Rusto 2x Saturday and they came out great.   The primer anyway.   My paint is my paint.  I think it will work out in the end though.  I hate that I have to order or go on a special trip to Hobby Lobby or find a hobby shop to get the Tamiya.    Nothing wrong with Tamiya, just an inconvenience thing.   

As fo Valspar, that is a Sherwin-Williams brand now, along with Krylon and others.   Rusto is RPM, with of course owns Testors.   Both of these are probably making their paints as compromises for the American market of general consumer instead of the dedicated to hobby Tamiya paints.  

 

[Plowboy]

  On 8/17/2020 at 12:40 PM, randyc said:

 I hate that I have to order or go on a special trip to Hobby Lobby or find a hobby shop to get the Tamiya.    Nothing wrong with Tamiya, just an inconvenience thing.   

 

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I buy mine online and at least three cans at a time. Clear the same way. It doesn't get much more convenient than that. 

I used to use Plasti Kote and Dupli Color. But, being someone that builds custom models, I was always dealing with preventing the ghosting issues. I would have to spray several mist coats of primer and paint. Even then, I would have to be concerned when it came time to spray clear. Even with all of those precautions, I've experienced ghosting well after the model was finished. Barely visible. But, still there.

Now that I've switched to Tamiya, I no longer have those issues. I don't have to mist on the primer, use a sealer beforehand or do a test spray. I can spray as much as I want with no ghosting or crazing issues because it's formulated for styrene. For me, using automotive primers and others that aren't formulated for styrene was like banging my head against the wall. It felt so much better when I quit. 

[randyc]

  On 8/17/2020 at 3:05 PM, Plowboy said:

I buy mine online and at least three cans at a time. Clear the same way. It doesn't get much more convenient than that. 

I used to use Plasti Kote and Dupli Color. But, being someone that builds custom models, I was always dealing with preventing the ghosting issues. I would have to spray several mist coats of primer and paint. Even then, I would have to be concerned when it came time to spray clear. Even with all of those precautions, I've experienced ghosting well after the model was finished. Barely visible. But, still there.

Now that I've switched to Tamiya, I no longer have those issues. I don't have to mist on the primer, use a sealer beforehand or do a test spray. I can spray as much as I want with no ghosting or crazing issues because it's formulated for styrene. For me, using automotive primers and others that aren't formulated for styrene was like banging my head against the wall. It felt so much better when I quit. 

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Good points.   I used to be there with the Duplicolor.   I will be studying on this when I get to the next build.   I'd sure like to fin those three kits I wanted to do last year that I put up and can't find now.  

[DiscoRover007]

  On 8/10/2020 at 12:25 PM, randyc said:

So, thought I'd prime these two right quick.  New can of duplicolor gray primer.  This is NOT kit plastic friendly!  Be warned.  See photos.  

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Did you wash and sand the bodies before priming? This looks like the primer might have been sprayed too heavy on a part that may still have mold release agents on it.  Tamiya is definitely the best out there in a spray can primer but Duplicolor is usually a pretty great sandable primer in its own right.

[martinfan5]

  On 8/15/2020 at 12:37 PM, Plowboy said:

I switched to Tamiya only a couple or more years ago and haven't looked back. I primer every single part right down to the coil and distributor. I can easily get two builds out of one can. So, I figure I have 5-6 dollars in getting a model in primer. To me, it's worth that to not have to worry about having issues such as this. Not to mention it's the best primer I've ever used. Beats them all hands down! Even the original Plasti Kote. The new by Valspar is garbage.

Saving a few dollars doesn't always save a few dollars. Sometimes, it costs you. I bet right now you would gladly fork over the extra money for Tamiya. So, why not do it always? If the cost is an issue, just use it on the bodies and use the cheap stuff on the rest.

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The BEST change I made in the hobby was switching to Tamiya/Mr Hobby primers, no more ruined bodies because I was wanted to use crappy automotive rattle can primers and or be even cheaper and use hardware store primers like Crapoleum or Craplyon.    Ruining bodies is not worth the savings.  

 

At one point, there was a difference in the plastic being used between the US and Asian kits and the Asian kits plastic was not able to handle hotter paints like automotive primers/paints, trust me, I crazed and ruined a lot $$$$ because I was trying to be a part of the cool club by using the auto/hardware store junk.  

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by martinfan5

[martinfan5]

  On 8/10/2020 at 8:22 PM, charlie8575 said:

That's disappointing. Looks like it'll be the airbrush stuff, Tamiya, or I've considered trying SEM.

Charlie Larkin

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Be careful with SEM, I use their chassis grey for all my current NASCAR builds because it accurate and it has a weird reaction to the plastic , it doesnt craze , I don't know to explain it,  so I am not sure if the primer will do the same thing.  Decanting and air brushing it seems to solve the issue if I recall.

*shooting it straight to bare plastic

The best thing you can do is use Tamiya Primer, its Tamiya Like Quality for reason, its worth the money.

Edited August 19, 2020 by martinfan5

[StevenGuthmiller]

Just shot a heavy coat of Duplicolor sandable gray primer on all of my modern kit chassis parts, followed by a coat of Rustoleum gloss black enamel.

Looks pretty crappy!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

Edited August 20, 2020 by StevenGuthmiller

[Deuces ll]

Looks fantastic!.... ??

[BubbaBrown]

I also build alot of models. Decades ago I found around 1 out of 10 models primed with duplicolor would craze. No ryhme or reason. Later learned company's switched plastic or process. I switched to another brand and had zero problems for decades. A couple years ago they changed formulas and their primer sucks also. I again switched to Tamiya and zero problems, Zero. It also is self leveling which the others were not. More money yes, but you get what you pay for. just my 2 cents.

[martinfan5]

  On 8/20/2020 at 1:01 AM, StevenGuthmiller said:

Just shot a heavy coat of Duplicolor sandable gray primer on all of my modern kit chassis parts, followed by a coat of Rustoleum gloss black enamel.

Looks pretty crappy!

 

 

 

 

Steve

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Yep, its craptastic indeed ?

Just because you don't have issues with the paint does not mean its not a low quality paint, its still is low quality crappy paint,  the key is the builder, like yourself, you a very talented builder that posses some skills that  lot of builders do not( I wish I had your BMF skills), and those skills are required to get decent results from these low quality crappy hardware store paints in can.

Its great you are able to get good results from those products , not everyone is as lucky.

 

*just so everyone understands, I mean zero disrespect to Steve, we are just having a debate, its our thing, its what we do.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by martinfan5

[Plowboy]

  On 8/19/2020 at 9:34 PM, martinfan5 said:

The BEST change I made in the hobby was switching to Tamiya.

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Me too. The more Tamiya products I try, the more I buy. I started with their tape, then paint, polishing compounds (complete game changer!), primer and now putty. Everything I've bought has been worth every penny.

[martinfan5]

  On 8/20/2020 at 3:08 AM, Plowboy said:

Me too. The more Tamiya products I try, the more I buy. I started with their tape, then paint, polishing compounds (complete game changer!), primer and now putty. Everything I've bought has been worth every penny.

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When you use quality like products, you get quality like results.

 

*you can still get decent results with crappy products too, but its just easier to get better results when you use quality products.

Edited August 20, 2020 by martinfan5

[StevenGuthmiller]

  On 8/20/2020 at 3:02 AM, martinfan5 said:

Yep, its craptastic indeed ?

Its almost as crappy as your passive aggressive reply,  just because you don't have issues with the paint does not mean its not a low quality paint, its still is low quality crappy paint,  the key is the builder, like yourself, you a very talented builder that posses some skills that  lot of builders do not, and those skills are required to get decent results from these low quality crappy hardware store paints in can.

 

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No disrespect intended.

I just don't believe in putting all of my eggs in one basket.

If Tamiya were to stop producing paints tomorrow, seems to me that there would be a lot of builders that would be SOL, including those that are advised on a regular basis that their only "real" option for primer is Tamiya.

A lot like what's happen now with the hysteria over Testors discontinuing many of their paints.

 

There are other very practicable options gentlemen.

Regardless of the rhetoric.

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

  On 8/20/2020 at 3:02 AM, martinfan5 said:

and those skills are required to get decent results from these low quality crappy hardware store paints in can.

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By the way, absolutely no special skills were required whatsoever with painting those chassis parts.

just point and shoot, same as you would with any other "crappy hardware store paint in a can".

 

 

 

 

Steve

[martinfan5]

  On 8/20/2020 at 3:28 AM, StevenGuthmiller said:

No disrespect intended.

I just don't believe in putting all of my eggs in one basket.

If Tamiya were to stop producing paints tomorrow, seems to me that there would be a lot of builders that would be SOL, including those that are advised on a regular basis that their only "real" option for primer is Tamiya.

A lot like what's happen now with the hysteria over Testors discontinuing many of their paints.

 

There are other very practicable options gentlemen.

Regardless of the rhetoric.

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

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If all kits were created equal and we lived in a perfect world, some of us wouldnt have to reply on Tamiya primer, but 95% of the kits I build come form their market and the plastic they use can not stand up the hotter primers that come in the 12oz cans of hardware store paints/automotive stuff.    I ruined a lot kits trying to use them, and all it does is craze , even trying misting I still ended up having issues and damaging the plastic, it just got to a point it was no longer worth it to try and use those products on the kits I was building.

Are you ready for this Steve?, I mean I hope you are sitting down and holding on to something?, I agree, we shouldnt have all of our eggs in one basket,  and I am thankful that I don't when it comes to paints outside of primers, not gonna lie, it hurts , like getting kicked in the nuts hurt losing the Metalizers, but thankfully Alclad will fill in that role for pretty much the same cost. 

 

[martinfan5]

  On 8/20/2020 at 3:34 AM, StevenGuthmiller said:

By the way, absolutely no special skills were required whatsoever with painting those chassis parts.

just point and shoot, same as you would with any other "crappy hardware store paint in a can".

 

 

 

 

Steve

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Ahh, respect, don't wanna brag about your skills?

Edited August 20, 2020 by martinfan5

[Plowboy]

  On 8/20/2020 at 1:01 AM, StevenGuthmiller said:

Just shot a heavy coat of Duplicolor sandable gray primer on all of my modern kit chassis parts, followed by a coat of Rustoleum gloss black enamel.

Looks pretty crappy!

Steve

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If those parts are from the AMT '62 Catalina and molded in gray, they're not modern. Dupli Color is decent primer. But, as evidenced by Randy, you never know when you're going to get a bad reaction. 

[Plowboy]

  On 8/20/2020 at 3:28 AM, StevenGuthmiller said:

No disrespect intended.

I just don't believe in putting all of my eggs in one basket.

If Tamiya were to stop producing paints tomorrow, seems to me that there would be a lot of builders that would be SOL, including those that are advised on a regular basis that their only "real" option for primer is Tamiya.

A lot like what's happen now with the hysteria over Testors discontinuing many of their paints.

 

There are other very practicable options gentlemen.

Regardless of the rhetoric.

Steve

 

 

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I have way more confidence in Tamiya sticking around than any other brand out there. What happens when Dupli Color changes hands? Look what happened with Plasti Kote and now Testors. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

  On 8/20/2020 at 3:55 AM, Plowboy said:

I have way more confidence in Tamiya sticking around than any other brand out there. What happens when Dupli Color changes hands? Look what happened with Plasti Kote and now Testors. 

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If Duplicolor goes away, I can switch to Tamiya.

What will your strategy be in the event that the fortunes are reversed?

 

 

 

 

Steve

[Plowboy]

  On 8/20/2020 at 4:01 AM, StevenGuthmiller said:

If Duplicolor goes away, I can switch to Tamiya.

What will your strategy be in the event that the fortunes are reversed?

 

 

 

 

Steve

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Mr. Hobby Surfacer/Primer. But, I'm not worried. Tamiya will be around after I'm long gone.

[martinfan5]

  On 8/20/2020 at 4:06 AM, Plowboy said:

Mr. Hobby Surfacer/Primer. But, I'm not worried. Tamiya will be around after I'm long gone.

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I see you too are a man that doesn't believe in keeping all his eggs in one basket.

Speaking of Mr Hobby, I go thru a lot of bottles of their Mr Sufacer Black,I love that stuff, while it may be a primer, I use it as a paint for things that need to be black but I don't want a shine , and its a very good primer too for parts that need to be semi or gloss black.

Edited August 20, 2020 by martinfan5

[StevenGuthmiller]

I don't know if the Revell '68 Charger meets the aforementioned criteria of a "modern kit", but here is my little experiment.

Four light coats of Duplicolor "primer sealer" (which is what I normally use) shot over less than a half of an hour's time.

Almost no time to gas out, nothing underneath but bare plastic, no sanding between coats and a finish that a baby's butt would envy.

No crazing or any other issues of any kind.

I didn't even clean it before spraying.

 

Normally, I would shoot a coat of Testors as a base before the Duplicolor, but for illustrative purposes, I sprayed this bare.

Works for me.

And for half the price per once as a can of Tamiya, I'll take it.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[Deuces ll]

Looks pretty good to me.....

[Bucky]

I used Pladti Kote primer years ago, then it disappeared from my regular buying places. I switched over to Duplicolor and haven't looked back. I normally shoot a couple light coats and then a couple heavier coverage coats. I spray the parts from all kinds of different directions, to keep down the chances of it streaking. 

Back in the days of yore, I used mostly TESTORS color paints with no primer at all. Never really had much problem, except for an occasional run when I sprayed it to heavily.

[Bills72sj]

  On 8/20/2020 at 5:12 AM, Bucky said:

I used Plasti Kote primer years ago, then it disappeared from my regular buying places. I switched over to Duplicolor and haven't looked back. I normally shoot a couple light coats and then a couple heavier coverage coats. I spray the parts from all kinds of different directions, to keep down the chances of it streaking. 

Back in the days of yore, I used mostly TESTORS color paints with no primer at all. Never really had much problem, except for an occasional run when I sprayed it to heavily.

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I too have sprayed Testors enamels directly onto virgin styrene for years. Obviously skipping the whole putty and sanding steps. Most of the time I end up with enamel orange peel but I just lived with it. I now have the patience and budget to attempt better, so I have JUST recently invested in some airbrushes and all the little dodads that go with airbrushing.

I used Tamiya white primer and while it seemed thin to me, it does lay down well. When I put Metallic Red automotive Duplicolor over it, it seemed sensitive to chipping off. Fortunately I handled it gently enough to need very few touch ups before covering it with Future. I guess it goes back to the sage advice of the experienced which is, stick with compatible brands/formulas of paints.

As a side note. It seems the newer the kit the weirder the plastic is. I saw a Youtube video that mentioned that some kits are made with recycled plastic formulas instead of pure virgin styrene. I had some 70 Monte Carlo parts molded in dark green that were pretty tough to sand and a bit reluctant to glue.