Model Car World Paint Tips?

[impcon]

I've been looking at Model Car World paints and considering trying them being as I prefer factory stock builds and some factory colours are very hard to match. Then there is Scale Finishes although their choice of colours seems pretty limited from what I can see on their website. They say that when you walk through a minefield, you should always  use the foot prints of the  guy that went before you as a guide and that's much like painting.

So my  questions are as follows:

1) What supplier of paint do you use and the reasons why..?

2) What's the difference in the paints?

3) Does anyone out there have suggestions and/or guidelines for the different paints?

4) What are your preferred methods of finishing the job as to what do you recommend for the final coats?

5) Are there any other suppliers who can mix factory colours and how would you rate them?

It would seem to me that a sticky thread for discussing paint finishes may  be a good is a.. maybe even welcomed by a lot of people in having concerns and questions answered... I know that there are lots of paints in the hobby shops but it's trying to duplicate those factory colours and while some people like spray cans, I've never been partial to them over the years. They have their place, I guess, but the colours are limited. Please feel free to pm me if you wish to. Thank you in advance.

[StevenGuthmiller]

MCW and Scale Finishes both offer exceptional paints!

 

There are a few differences, but they are both fantastic ready to spray lacquers.

The main differences between the two that I have been able to see, are the size of the metallic particles in the paint.

Scale Finishes' particles are a little larger, and for that reason, I prefer MCW.

Very often, the particles in MCW paints are so fine, that it can be difficult to pick them out on the finished model, but they have the correct looking metallic sheen for a 1/25th scale factory stock model.

 

MCW paints are "gloss lacquer", which in theory means that they can be finished without a clear coat, but I clear over it any way.

Scale Finishes paints are either "lacquer basecoat" (which will require clear coats) or gloss enamel.

I use the base coat colors because I greatly prefer working with lacquer paints, and I have heard others say that the enamels take forever to dry......if ever.

 

Scale Finishes colors are more economical at $9.99 for 2 oz jars, while MCW will run you around $7.50 for 1 oz, depending on the colors. (some colors are more expensive)

 

Although you stated that Scale Finishes colors appear to be more limited in variety, it's actually just the opposite.

Scale Finishes carries nearly every color for a particular year and make, while MCW is a little more spotty, which is why Scale Finishes is my go-to when I absolutely must have a particular unusual color.

 

Regardless of which lacquer you choose, (I know very little about Scale Finishes enamels) you will want to treat them as any other automotive type lacquer paint.

A good lacquer primer, (and plenty of it) and preferably a good clear of your choice, is the rule of thumb.

 

In short, you can't really go wrong with either of these brands!

They are both really a joy to work with!

 

 

This MPC '67 Bonneville was painted with MCW #6701 "Royal Plum" metallic.

 

 

 

 

 

This AMT '64 Pontiac Grand Prix was painted with Scale Finishes, code N "Sunfire Red" metallic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

[impcon]

Thank you for your detailed, informative and helpful post for which I am most grateful and no doubt, your counsel will help many others. I sincerely appreciate your taking the time to respond as you did. As always, Gary.

[impcon]

One more question.. you mentioned using lacquer primer.. so would you recommend using actual 1:1 automotive lacquer primer ahead of Tamiya primers? I n years past, I used Martin Senour ( Sherwin Williams ) lacquer primer on models and it seemed to work very well and a quart would  last a lifetime ( almost *smiles* ) and Tamiya primers are getting up there in price here in Canada. The last can that I bought was well over $20.00 after taxes.. Your opinions will be welcomed. As always, Gary

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, impcon said:

One more question.. you mentioned using lacquer primer.. so would you recommend using actual 1:1 automotive lacquer primer ahead of Tamiya primers? I n years past, I used Martin Senour ( Sherwin Williams ) lacquer primer on models and it seemed to work very well and a quart would  last a lifetime ( almost *smiles* ) and Tamiya primers are getting up there in price here in Canada. The last can that I bought was well over $20.00 after taxes.. Your opinions will be welcomed. As always, Gary

I personally don't use Tamiya primer, but I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to use it if you prefer.

I'm positive that there are a lot of guys that use it under automotive paints.

 

I prefer Duplicolor, not only for economic reasons, but because I like the fan spray nozzles on the Duplicolor cans.

Very easy to get light, even coats.

I know a lot of people rave about the Tamiya nozzles, But I personally don't see it.

Another advantage to Duplicolor primer over Tamiya is the ease of stripping lacquer paints should it become necessary.

Tamiya primer is notoriously stubborn to remove in comparison.

Should you need to strip a lacquer paint job applied over Duplicolor primer, a good soak in Super Clean for a couple of days will do the trick.

The solution will seep under the paint and dissolve the primer, allowing the paint itself to come off in sheets.

 

There are drawbacks to using Duplicolor primer however, the most important being that the primers, like the paints, are hotter than hobby lacquer primers.

Therefore, caution is necessary to guard against crazing of the plastic.

Numerous light coats are the key, becoming successively heavier as you proceed.

 

Often times, I will shoot a base coat of Testors lacquer primer prior to the Duplicolor, just to add a little bit of a barrier.

This seems to do the trick quite nicely.

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

[Bugatti Fan]

Another way of getting matching automotive paint finishes is go to a supplier of automotive paints.

Many have the facility to produce acrylic aerosol paints mixed to manufacturer's specification. Good for plain colours only as metallics will be well over scale on a model, unless of course looking for a scale metalflake finish.

[peteski]

34 minutes ago, Bugatti Fan said:

Another way of getting matching automotive paint finishes is go to a supplier of automotive paints.

Yes that method (or simply buying small bottles of automotive  touch-up paints at the car parts store) is a way to get the exact colors.  But sometimes in metallic particles of the 1:1 scale paints look out of scale when applied to a 1:24 model.  This problem is usually not noticed when viewing the model in person, but it really shows up in close-up photos. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

28 minutes ago, peteski said:

Yes that method (or simply buying small bottles of automotive  touch-up paints at the car parts store) is a way to get the exact colors.

True, but the selection will be limited, and only modern colors, unless you know of a place that will custom mix a spray can of the color that you want as Noel mentioned, in which case, you will get way more than you need for one project, (which for me is not desirable. I rarely paint more than one model a particular color) and a can of custom mixed paint is going to cost a considerable amount.

I've been conversing recently with a forum member who was having difficulties with "Paintscratch" paint.

Not to say that they're not good paints, but he was having major issues with paint leveling and orange peel.

Of course, I directed him to MCW and Scale Finishes.

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

 

 

Steve

[peteski]

I guess you misunderstood my post.  I mentioned that while automotive touch-up paints are used by some, the metallic particles are usually out of scale. That implies that I would *NOT* recommend them (although I have used them in the past).  I believe the MCW and other similar paints for the hobby market are derived from the same automotive paints used on 1:1 cars.  They are just sold in small quantities and thinned (reduced)  to be airbrush ready.

Edited June 8, 2022 by peteski

[StevenGuthmiller]

14 minutes ago, peteski said:

I guess you misunderstood my post.  I mentioned that while automotive touch-up paints are used by some, the metallic particles are usually out of scale. That implies that I would *NOT* recommend them (although I have used them in the past).  I believe the MCW and other similar paints for the hobby market are derived from the same automotive paints used on 1:1 cars.  They are just sold in small quantities and thinned (reduced)  to be airbrush ready.

I believe that I understood your meaning.

I didn't mean to make it sound as if I were being contradictory.

I was merely expanding upon your post. 

 

 

 

Steve

[peteski]

40 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I don't think anybody here is trying to fix anything -- we are simply stating that there are alternatives, not discouraging the use of MCW products.  And as I mentioned, my original post actually was discouraging from using the touch-up paints.

Also orange-peel  problem is most often caused by the spray painting technique (method of spraying and thinning the paint), not by the paint itself.

Edited June 8, 2022 by peteski

[StevenGuthmiller]

21 minutes ago, peteski said:

I don't think anybody here is trying to fix anything -- we are simply stating that there are alternatives, not discouraging the use of MCW products.  And as I mentioned, my original post actually was discouraging from using the touch-up paints.

Also orange-peel  problem is most often caused by the spray painting technique (method of spraying and thinning the paint), not by the paint itself.

The individual I was referring to was having issues with a spray can.

from the photos he provided to me, it appeared that the paint was mixed too thick in the first place with no opportunity to thin without decanting.

His PM to me was to ask my opinion on the problem, as well as ask my opinion of MCW and Scale Finishes paints.

Another part of his problem was how hot the paint was.

Apparently it was a little too hot for the Tamiya primer which he had used as it was apparent that there was some etching of the plastic.

 

 

 

Steve

 

[Dave G.]

2 hours ago, peteski said:

I guess you misunderstood my post.  I mentioned that while automotive touch-up paints are used by some, the metallic particles are usually out of scale. That implies that I would *NOT* recommend them (although I have used them in the past).  I believe the MCW and other similar paints for the hobby market are derived from the same automotive paints used on 1:1 cars.  They are just sold in small quantities and thinned (reduced)  to be airbrush ready.

MCW to my knowledge uses PPG auto paint. But the flakes are finer in the metallic paints than the original 1:1 formulas. More in scale.

MCW also now will mix enamels which I believe is acrylic enamel much as most car manufacturers used for a couple of decades or more and I used in my own shops as well.

My complaint with MCW lacquer is to me the thinner is a little too fast for bodies. I emailed them because I know they use a slower thinner in the military colors but got no response. Since they mix each color for you I'm sure there would be no issue with subbing in the slower thinner. I have not tried the enamel, that you thin yourself, last I knew anyway the enamel did not come pre thinned ( fine with me).

I have no experience with Scale Finishes.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Dave G.

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Dave G. said:

MCW to my knowledge uses PPG auto paint. But the flakes are finer in the metallic paints than the original 1:1 formulas. More in scale.

MCW also now will mix enamels which I believe is acrylic enamel much as most car manufacturers used for a couple of decades or more and I used in my own shops as well.

My complaint with MCW lacquer is to me the thinner is a little too fast for bodies. I emailed them because I know they use a slower thinner in the military colors but got no response. Since they mix each color for you I'm sure there would be no issue with subbing in the slower thinner. I have not tried the enamel, that you thin yourself, last I knew anyway the enamel did not come pre thinned ( fine with me).

I have no experience with Scale Finishes.

You are correct.

MCW now offers jar enamels to help fill the hole left by Testors, but as far as I know, they do not offer pre-thinned enamel for airbrushing. 
 

Scale Finishes however, does offer all of their airbrush colors in either lacquer or enamel.

 

 

 

Steve

[Bugatti Fan]

Some interesting comments guys. I think someone mentioned older car colours being difficult to source.

Not sure if this is quite true as recently I looked up an automotive paint specialist here in the UK who could supply.me with an aerosol 1960's Porsche colour for £14.00 (equivalent to about 18 to 20 dollars I'm guessing).

Another mention was made about this being expensive to spray one model. Depends on the scale of course, but would imagine the poster in question had a 1/24 or 1/25 body in mind although he did not say. In which case, maybe so.

Scale finish!  The human eye is forgiving when looking at a model as your mind compensates but the camera is not. Overscale Metallica have already been mentioned. I have seen beautifully polished 1/43rd scale models but when photographed look as though they have a 6 inch coat of Dyna Glaze in scale. A real scale finish would look dull to the eye on a table however.

[modelercarl]

Some info for builders who might not be familiar with MCW paints.  They publish a 115 page catalog listing their standard paints available.  It was $10 when I bought it in 2009.  It lists standard factory paint by their number, color (whether metallic or not) and shade (light, medium, dark).

The listed contents are for American Motors 1949-1978, Chrysler 1949-1978, Ford 1928-1978, General Motors 1949-1978, Volkswagen 1952-1975.  There are approximately 80 colors on each page.  There is some duplication, for instance in the GM section you will see some of the same colors listed for Oldsmobile-Pontiac or Chevrolet-Buick as an example.  Same for Ford and Chrysler product.

With the number of colors available I would think that there are enough options available to custom mix your preference if a standard is not available.  I have contacted Mike at MCW and he has mixed colors for me when I can give him a manufacturer's color code.

Phone number:  330-830-7755 

[Dave G.]

I saw a video stating where Mike from MCW has a spectrometer camera that he can use on a color chip and get a code from that with formula. I want to say it was a Donn Yost video. Mike himself put out a video maybe a year ago saying this was coming. Anyway point is that by now you should be able to get about any color mixed from MCW.

That said, for me now and then I get that critical but generally close enough is good enough for me. One tough color to get close enough on is a Ford maroon, it's some wine color they used around 1950 and again in the 60's. That I would get mixed. The Model A's also had a specific green. The cream wheels I have nailed down with craft paints I mix myself.

 

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

40 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

I saw a video stating where Mike from MCW has a spectrometer camera that he can use on a color chip and get a code from that with formula. I want to say it was a Donn Yost video. Mike himself put out a video maybe a year ago saying this was coming. Anyway point is that by now you should be able to get about any color mixed from MCW.

That said, for me now and then I get that critical but generally close enough is good enough for me. One tough color to get close enough on is a Ford maroon, it's some wine color they used around 1950 and again in the 60's. That I would get mixed. The Model A's also had a specific green. The cream wheels I have nailed down with craft paints I mix myself.

 

 

The only issue with getting a custom mix from MCW is that they require that you buy 2 jars of the color.

2 oz of paint is nice to have just in case, but if I’m not mistaken, the cost is about $18.00, twice as much as 2oz of the same color from Scale Finishes.

Don’t misunderstand, I love MCW paints, and will use them when possible, but I can’t see myself spending that kind of money on 2oz of paint, unless it’s a color that I can’t live without, and can’t get anywhere else.

Hopefully, at some point, they’ll be able to expand their line to include many of the more unusual colors that they currently don’t carry in their line.

For an example, I had to order 1964 Pontiac “Sunfire Red” and ‘68 Olds “Cinnamon Bronze” from Scale Finishes because MCW didn’t carry either color. 
 

 

 

 

Steve

[Dave G.]

28 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

The only issue with getting a custom mix from MCW is that they require that you buy 2 jars of the color.

2 oz of paint is nice to have just in case, but if I’m not mistaken, the cost is about $18.00, twice as much as 2oz of the same color from Scale Finishes.

Don’t misunderstand, I love MCW paints, and will use them when possible, but I can’t see myself spending that kind of money on 2oz of paint, unless it’s a color that I can’t live without, and can’t get anywhere else.

Hopefully, at some point, they’ll be able to expand their line to include many of the more unusual colors that they currently don’t carry in their line.

For an example, I had to order 1964 Pontiac “Sunfire Red” and ‘68 Olds “Cinnamon Bronze” from Scale Finishes because MCW didn’t carry either color. 
 

 

 

 

Steve

Cost is a factor especially when adding in shipping.

Our local NAPA store will mix enamel touch up paint which is 2oz for $10, fine for the colors I mentioned since they are not metallic. I'm from your camp that the auto touch up paint in metallic is more like metal flake than metallic in 1/25 or even 1/16.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Dave G.

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, Dave G. said:

 I'm from your camp that the auto touch up paint in metallic is more like metal flake than metallic in 1/25 or even 1/16.

I agree.

This is one of the biggest reasons why I use, and recommend aftermarket model car paint suppliers, like MCW.

 

 

 

Steve