Torino cobra AMT

[slusher]

Is there much difference between  a Torino Cobra and. Torino Talladaga!  Amt

[Bills72sj]

That depends on the year. The Cobra had more to do with the drivetrain package while the Talladega was the aero modified verson.

[bobss396]

I built one, another BACK IN THE BOX dealie... 

I put the Talledega nose on it, that is the major difference AFAIK. I did the NASCAR version pretty much OOTB.

[Fat Brian]

The guts are abou the same in both kits but the Talladega will have the extended nose. If you want a Talladega specifically build the Monogram kit, it's much better.

[Shark]

For 1969 on the Nascar circuit, they called the long nosed car a Cobra while running the 427. Once the 429 was approved part way in the season, they used the Talladega name. Not sure on the previous years.

[Carmak]

I agree with others. If you want a Taladega build the Monogram kit.

The AMT Torino Cobra kit is a typical late 60’s style AMT kit with a promo style chassis and interior tub.

It was “restored” in the 80’s after being made into a modified stocker in the 70’s. IIRC the original issues (68/69) were Torino GT’s.

The restoration was okay (the trim details are not as crisp as the originals). The grille is the worst part of the resto.

Do lots of mockups and you will be fine. 😊

[oldcarfan]

This might be a more general question, but does anyone know how many tools for a kit are usually made? For instance did AMT only cut one set of tools for their kits, or did they make duplicates? They've reissued both the 3n1 Torino Cobra kit and the modified stocker kit. Did they have two sets of tooling that they modified one to get the modified stocker? I'd think they would have made more than one set in case a tool is damaged or in order to produce the kits more quickly, but I don't know. 

[Fat Brian]

How tools are designed has changed over time. These early kits are typically one large piece with sections that can be changed out. Modern tools can be smaller where each parts tree is a separate tool. This seems to be what Revell and Moebius in particular are doing, running smaller tools on modern machines. There is usually only one though.

[LennyB]

I've often wondered about this myself. AMT issued the 68 Torino in fastback and convertible versions. They were both modified for 1969 with the fastback a Torino and the convertible a Cobra (the Cobra is not a Torino in 69). Then the fastback was turned into a modified stocker and the convertible disappeared. Then around 1990 they restored the Modified stocker and made it into the 69 Cobra fastback. But we still have the modified stocker. So there must be more then one tool of the fastback.

Edited December 19, 2024 by LennyB

[larman]

FWIW, the Amt 1969 "Torino" Cobra kit is a Cobra, even though Amt has insisted on putting Torino on the box since they brought it out in the early 90's. The Torino and Cobra were stand alone models in 1969. The Cobra was supposed to be a low buck performance car, like a Plymouth Roadrunner or Dodge Super Bee. No frills, big engine, not a lot of options. Calling the Cobra a Torino Cobra would be like calling a Roadrunner a Satellite Roadrunner or a Roadrunner GTX, but people keep doing it and I doubt it will stop any time soon.

 

[slusher]

On 12/17/2024 at 8:07 PM, oldcarfan said:

This might be a more general question, but does anyone know how many tools for a kit are usually made? For instance did AMT only cut one set of tools for their kits, or did they make duplicates? They've reissued both the 3n1 Torino Cobra kit and the modified stocker kit. Did they have two sets of tooling that they modified one to get the modified stocker? I'd think they would have made more than one set in case a tool is damaged or in order to produce the kits more quickly, but I don't know. 

I saw a kit on eBay and the box art was like a Torino nascar..

[LennyB]

Some people also called it a Fairlane Cobra although that too is incorrect. But I have see some Cobras with the Fairlane script on the trunk lid.

And if you think 1969 was confusing wait until 1970. Then it was part of the Torino line, not separate and the same body was also still on the Fairlane line and mid year it was also the Falcon. For the first half of the year the Falcon used the same body as it had since 1966. Ford didn't want to have the Falcon compete against the new Maverick

10 hours ago, larman said:

FWIW, the Amt 1969 "Torino" Cobra kit is a Cobra, even though Amt has insisted on putting Torino on the box since they brought it out in the early 90's. The Torino and Cobra were stand alone models in 1969. The Cobra was supposed to be a low buck performance car, like a Plymouth Roadrunner or Dodge Super Bee. No frills, big engine, not a lot of options. Calling the Cobra a Torino Cobra would be like calling a Roadrunner a Satellite Roadrunner or a Roadrunner GTX, but people keep doing it and I doubt it will stop any time soon.

 

 

[LennyB]

9 minutes ago, slusher said:

I saw a kit on eBay and the box art was like a Torino nascar..

Carl, you never specified a year. Are you talking 1969? The Nascar version sounds like the 1970.

 

Edited December 19, 2024 by LennyB

[Carmak]

11 hours ago, larman said:

FWIW, the Amt 1969 "Torino" Cobra kit is a Cobra, even though Amt has insisted on putting Torino on the box since they brought it out in the early 90's. The Torino and Cobra were stand alone models in 1969. The Cobra was supposed to be a low buck performance car, like a Plymouth Roadrunner or Dodge Super Bee. No frills, big engine, not a lot of options. Calling the Cobra a Torino Cobra would be like calling a Roadrunner a Satellite Roadrunner or a Roadrunner GTX, but people keep doing it and I doubt it will stop any time soon.

 

You are correct.....BUT..... there is another car(s) out there called a Cobra so calling it a Torino Cobra or a Fairlane Cobra is kina of a natural clarifier.  

[bill-e-boy]

The AMT 69 Cobra is dire. Lots of fitment issues with the worst being chassis to body alignment - it doesn't

And the chassis has moulded in everything - really a kitted promo

If you dont mind building slab style though it comes up OK. Dont know the differences between Cobra and Talledega though. No the Monogram unit but anything would be better than what AMT offered

[LennyB]

38 minutes ago, bill-e-boy said:

The AMT 69 Cobra is dire. Lots of fitment issues with the worst being chassis to body alignment - it doesn't

And the chassis has moulded in everything - really a kitted promo

If you dont mind building slab style though it comes up OK. Dont know the differences between Cobra and Talledega though. No the Monogram unit but anything would be better than what AMT offered

That's because it is a kitted promo. The chassis is the evolution of the 1962 Fairlane promo. If you want to build a better model you can steel the chassis from the remastered AMT 1966 Fairlane. You can also use the Revel 1970 Torino chassis but that is not as accurate as Ford made changes between those years.

[rattle can man]

from what I've gather, Ford used the Fairlane body for Cobra, Talladega, and Torino as well Fairlanes. Cobras and Talladegas could only be ordered with the 428 Cobra jet or Super Cobra Jet engines.  Talladegas were built with a C-6, while Cobras could have a C6 or Toploader. Talladegas had the aero nose extension and modified rocker panels that the Cobra did not. Talladegas were all fast backs, while Cobras could be fast back or hardtop. And of course Cobras and Talladegas  had beefier suspensions.

[LennyB]

6 hours ago, rattle can man said:

from what I've gather, Ford used the Fairlane body for Cobra, Talladega, and Torino as well Fairlanes. Cobras and Talladegas could only be ordered with the 428 Cobra jet or Super Cobra Jet engines.  Talladegas were built with a C-6, while Cobras could have a C6 or Toploader. Talladegas had the aero nose extension and modified rocker panels that the Cobra did not. Talladegas were all fast backs, while Cobras could be fast back or hardtop. And of course Cobras and Talladegas  had beefier suspensions.

That's fairly accurate. The beefier suspension was also available on the Torino GT model as well which could be had with anything from the 302 to the 428 Cobra Jet. The Talledega really can't be put in the same category as the rest as that was a limited production model that was homologated for NASCAR racing in 1969. They only made about 750 of them in white, maroon or presidential blue. Wasn't something you could just walk into your Ford dealer and tic a couple of boxes and drive home with one.

[Mothersworry]

I hope this doesn't take this thread too far off point but a good friend of mine owns a '69 Talladega so I can offer some small insight into these unique cars.

Briefly...Talladega's were "package cars", built solely to homologate the modified Torino body for NASCAR, avaliable only one way...no options at all. The only possible variable wuz color, one of 3, Wimbledon white, Presidential Blue, or Royal maroon with a black hood and cowl.

All Talladegas had Whitewall tires, 428 CJ with SCJ oil cooler, C6 auto trans, an open 9 inch rear axle and a Black cloth and vinyl bench seat interior. The body changes unique to the Talladega included modified front fenders, flush grille with pickup truck parking lights/signals behind the grille, unique header panel and an extensively reworked rear bumper that wuz installed in place of the original Torino front bumper to provide a sort of "air dam" effect.

Additionally the rocker panels were reworked and "raised" 1 inch higher so the car could be lower than the standard Torino as NASCAR measured ground clearance at the rocker panel.

One point of contention has been the single speaker AM radio. "Officially", no radios were installed by the factory, however, my friend (the Talladegas owner) has said when he that while he wuz working at a Ford Dealer in '69 he did see a Talladega delivered to the dealer from the factory with a radio installed. 

I built a model of my friends Talladega from the Monogram kit, the kit is a very well done representation of the real car, far superior to the AMT version, although it is 1/24 scale.

Edited December 22, 2024 by Mothersworry

[slusher]

10 hours ago, bill-e-boy said:

The AMT 69 Cobra is dire. Lots of fitment issues with the worst being chassis to body alignment - it doesn't

And the chassis has moulded in everything - really a kitted promo

If you dont mind building slab style though it comes up OK. Dont know the differences between Cobra and Talledega though. No the Monogram unit but anything would be better than what AMT offered

Tthis is the kit I have but did not know it was a trouble to build!

[slusher]

13 hours ago, LennyB said:

Carl, you never specified a year. Are you talking 1969? The Nascar version sounds like the 1970.

 

I have a 69 I would like to build one of those Johan Torino stock cars but way out of my affordability..

[Mark]

On 12/17/2024 at 9:07 PM, oldcarfan said:

This might be a more general question, but does anyone know how many tools for a kit are usually made? For instance did AMT only cut one set of tools for their kits, or did they make duplicates? They've reissued both the 3n1 Torino Cobra kit and the modified stocker kit. Did they have two sets of tooling that they modified one to get the modified stocker? I'd think they would have made more than one set in case a tool is damaged or in order to produce the kits more quickly, but I don't know. 

Two sets of tooling for one subject are the exception, not the rule.  Two AMT '64 Galaxies for example, one for the promo (still exists as the stock Craftsman kit) and the other for the annual kit (now the Modified Stocker).

The '69 Torino fastback was modified a lot less than other Modified Stocker kits.  The chassis was altered to remove the molded-in exhaust detail, wheel openings were whacked out, door panel detail smoothed off on the interior.  The windshield wipers weren't removed from the body.  The roll cage and engine parts were already in the annual kit.  The crash bars and wide wheels for the Modified Stocker were added.

Ertl restored the Torino to stock by scratching some detail back onto the interior side panels, and creating new "slides" for the body sides with stock wheel openings.  They also tooled new stock wheels and maybe the seats too.  The stock Cobra grille was used in the Cobra convertible/coupe version and carried forward to the original Modified Stocker.  Most if not all of the Modified Stocker parts were left alone by Ertl.

Apparently the body side slide tooling from the Modified Stocker still worked with the tool and weren't discarded by Ertl.  So by switching those tooling pieces, both the stock and Modified Stocker versions can still be run.

[oldcarfan]

12 hours ago, Mark said:

Two sets of tooling for one subject are the exception, not the rule.  Two AMT '64 Galaxies for example, one for the promo (still exists as the stock Craftsman kit) and the other for the annual kit (now the Modified Stocker).

The '69 Torino fastback was modified a lot less than other Modified Stocker kits.  The chassis was altered to remove the molded-in exhaust detail, wheel openings were whacked out, door panel detail smoothed off on the interior.  The windshield wipers weren't removed from the body.  The roll cage and engine parts were already in the annual kit.  The crash bars and wide wheels for the Modified Stocker were added.

Ertl restored the Torino to stock by scratching some detail back onto the interior side panels, and creating new "slides" for the body sides with stock wheel openings.  They also tooled new stock wheels and maybe the seats too.  The stock Cobra grille was used in the Cobra convertible/coupe version and carried forward to the original Modified Stocker.  Most if not all of the Modified Stocker parts were left alone by Ertl.

Apparently the body side slide tooling from the Modified Stocker still worked with the tool and weren't discarded by Ertl.  So by switching those tooling pieces, both the stock and Modified Stocker versions can still be run.

Thanks for the details! I'm kind of a nerd for the backstories and the history of whatever I'm currently interested in.

[Mark]

The body side detail on the Torino Cobra isn't quite as sharp as on the GT annual, but I remember when that reissue was announced.  I thought Ertl did a decent job with it.  

Ertl restored the '65 GTO Modified Stocker in 1984, one of the first things they did that needed a lot of work.  And it did need a lot, that kit got reworked as much as any other in the series.  The GTO rebuild included a brand new interior bucket and chassis plate, neither of which came out as good as the original parts.  The body got reworked a lot as well, as did the bumpers (including the protruding headlamps that everyone complains about).

None of the other kits in that series could, or should, be restored to stock, much as I'd like to see a couple of them in stock form again.

[oldcarfan]

On 12/19/2024 at 10:14 PM, slusher said:

I have a 69 I would like to build one of those Johan Torino stock cars but way out of my affordability..

I found one of these in a hobby shop last year for $40. It looks to me like the same kit as the Johan one.