Progress or stupidity? You decide...

[Ace-Garageguy]

 

[Russell C]

<rant: on>Sheer stupidity. If I was benevolent dictator / king / ruler / supreme authority of the country, I would outlaw every xenon headlight out there and probably all of the latest LED ones, for being pointlessly blindingly bright. Back when I used to have to drive home at night, it was increasingly necessary for me to flip my inside rear view mirror up to the position that cuts the brights of the people behind me, and I had to increasingly hold my hand up to my driver's side window to shield my eyes from my outside mirror for whoever was passing me with their "rolling aircraft landing lights array,"  .... all in the Phoenix metro area on freeways / streets already lit up well enough with overhead lights that people could almost do without running any headlights at all.<rant: off>

[johnyrotten]

I've had vision problems all my life and by far the best headlights I've had on a vehicle were the bi-zenon in my volkswagen gli. They were auto leveling and had a very distinct "cut off", didn't blind anyone, factory equipment. Most of the "upgrades" some people do actually make the problem worse, wrong bulb for the type of housing/reflector and the temperature(btu) of the light. More isn't always better. Dont overlook all the now giant trucks with aftermarket everything, lifted, and running IMPROPERLY aimed lighting. As for new vehicles with factory portable sun's for lights, I think part of that is manufacturers going with the trends, and of course the profits for replacement. I'll stick with my cheaper,  serviceable composite headlights. I used to work on optical sorting equipment, you learn a ton about light's color spectrum with those. Pretty neat systems. 

[peteski]

Small clarification:  light's color temperature is not expressed in btu (British Thermal Unit) but in K (degrees of Kelvin).  I also find most of the new LED-based headlights blinding and annoying at night.  And the sharp light cutoff is not all that handy.  It works well on a perfectly smooth road but if the road has undulations it makes the headlights appear like they are flashing while going over the bumps (or blinding like high-beams when the oncoming car is traveling uphill).

And as John mentioned, many of the self-installed "upgrades" result in headlights which are totally out-of-specs, either not correctly illuminating the road, blinding oncoming drivers, or both.

The other annoyance is that it seems that more and more drivers drive with their high-beams on all the time.

Edited Friday at 12:14 PM by peteski

[johnyrotten]

42 minutes ago, peteski said:

Small clarification:  light's color temperature is not expressed in btu (British Thermal Unit) but in K (degrees of Kelvin).

I tend to speak in "layman's" terms, I'm not an expert nor would I claim that, btu makes it a bit easier, at least to me, to understand. I've had the "pleasure" of training more than a few "less bright individuals". Force of habit.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I like bright lights to see where I'm going at night as much as anyone else.

But this is largely, again, an instance of either stupid, lazy design, or intentional planned obsolescence and built-in captive after-vehicle-sale expense.

Even with the most sophisticated xenon or LED lamps, a few more mouse strokes and thought COULD HAVE MADE INDIVIDUAL COMPONENTS EASILY REPLACEABLE, vastly reducing cost.

But no, for whatever reason, you get to spend $1500 when a "bulb burns out".

And as usual, consumers just take it.

PS: It's not only improperly adjusted late-model OEM lighting or improperly installed/designed aftermarket stuff that cause annoying problems from oncoming or following vehicles.

I have purchased several vehicles that had simple old-fashioned standard sealed-beams or later sealed-beam halogens and "composite" lighting with the bulbs installed literally upside-down or partially cocked.

I've seen the mounting rings cut and modded to force-fit bulbs wrong because the chimpchanic was too dim to understand those little slots and keys are there to ensure the bulbs go in correctly.

 

 

[johnyrotten]

19 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I've seen the mounting rings cut and modded to force-fit bulbs wrong because the chimpchanic was too dim to understand those little slots and keys are there to ensure the bulbs go in correctly.

Living proof of "too dumb to change a light bulb". Put the tools down and slowly walk away. This quote alone makes me happy I no longer turn wrenches for a living. 

[espo]

I feel the easily replaceable bulb is the way to go from a cost of ownership and ease of maintenance. The enhanced lighting for nighttime driving is sufficient without any undue expense. 

[johnyrotten]

1 hour ago, espo said:

feel the easily replaceable bulb is the way to go from a cost of ownership and ease of maintenance

Absolutely agree. anything else I chalk up to over-complication and corporate greed. No need for a 1500 dollar headlight, this isn't the space shuttle or a fighter jet.

[peteski]

7 hours ago, johnyrotten said:

I tend to speak in "layman's" terms, I'm not an expert nor would I claim that, btu makes it a bit easier, at least to me, to understand. I've had the "pleasure" of training more than a few "less bright individuals". Force of habit.

I'm far from an expert, but know enough to realize that BTUs (a unit of energy, specifically measuring the amount of heat required to raise the temperature of one pound of water by one degree Fahrenheit) have nothing to do with color temperature of light.  Not sure how applying btu to light color makes you understand things better.  But whatever . . . if you want to measure light color in btus, so be it. Make sure you have large enough furnace!

[johnyrotten]

14 minutes ago, peteski said:

I'm far from an expert, but know enough to realize that BTUs (a unit of energy, specifically measuring the amount of heat required to raise the temperature of one pound of water by one degree Fahrenheit) have nothing to do with color temperature of light.  Not sure how applying btu to light color makes you understand things better.  But whatever . . . if you want to measure light color in btus, so be it. Make sure you have large enough furnace!

Some of the guys would have difficulty understanding the Kelvin scale, I dumbed it down to btu for them as a more familiar unit of measurement. Any adjustments, for them was given in "hotter"or "colder" "less"or "more" phrases. Or had had to come in after my shift and do it myself. I had to learn "idiot speak", unfortunately, at times in my career there. Most of those guys were hardly fit to work at jiffy lube, I had been trained by the manufacturer during the install. You obviously understand it, they couldn't. 

[WillyBilly]

I am not a fan of bright bulbs. I am also not a fan of LED bulbs that do not produce heat for so many reasons. One being that if it is snowing, and the taillights do not produce heat, the snow will pack up on the back of a vehicle, including the taillights. I almost plowed into a person during a snowstorm because while it was at night, the taillights were covered by snow. Luckily, they stepped on the brake, and enough light got through so I could see them. I purchased LEDs for my jeep, and one morning I could not see. I stopped and discovered the headlights were covered with snow. Now that I know more about them, I have learned they make LEDs with heaters built in, but I decided that it is just another thing to fail, so I went back to Halogen bulbs. I run Silver Stars in all my vehicles that I can now with no issue, and plenty of light.

[Dragline]

Stupidity.

 

And "Chimpchanic?" I'm stealing that if you don't mind.

Edited Friday at 11:23 PM by Dragline

[Little Timmy]

Lately I have been spending $1500.00  on a whole car.

It seems everything on cars has gotten stupid . Just had to tear half of my engine apart, AND JACK THE ENGINE UP, just to replace a starter.

Man I miss the older cars ( pre 1978) I could easily changeout parts on my 75 Cadillac.  Plenty of room to work.

 

 

 

[johnyrotten]

25 minutes ago, Dragline said:

Chimpcanic?"

That one is pure gold.

[Dragline]

53 minutes ago, johnyrotten said:

That one is pure gold.

It truly is. It's Gold Jerry, Gold!

[Little Timmy]

Chimpcanic you say ???

 

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 01:32 AM by Little Timmy
technically challenged

[Dragline]

No Kidding? Well, retirement is just around the corner.  Funny stuff...

[Pierre Rivard]

Call me the voice of dissension but my vote goes to LED. Their compactness enable more styling freedom, they provide excellent lighting performance and they should last the life of the car. No more idiots driving around with burnt lamps, no matter how cheap the replacement cost is. Sometimes progress is a good thing.

[stitchdup]

its not the lights that are the problem. the problem is theres not a maximum height for the lights so we have a mixture of different sized vehicles with lights at differing heights so smaller cars get blinded by trucks and suvs. If there was a height limit most of the issues would be drasticly reduced. yes your led lights might make your driving safer at night but isn't that negated when your lights make other peoples driving worse? 

[Dragline]

I'm with Stich on this. While each vehicle has its own settings for proper lamp coverage. Heights differ, sometimes dramatically. If all lamps were on the same plane there would be some funky looking trucks out there. Some lamps are simply far too bright. I put Sylvania Silver Stars in the Cav. They we a bit brighter than stock and no one ever hit their high beams at me in complaint.

Meanwhile, I have hit others thinking they had theirs on, only to get hit with their true beams and I nearly went temporarily night blind.

As for form factor and styling? Is it safety and visibility or fashion?

[peteski]

2 hours ago, Pierre Rivard said:

Call me the voice of dissension but my vote goes to LED. Their compactness enable more styling freedom, they provide excellent lighting performance and they should last the life of the car. No more idiots driving around with burnt lamps, no matter how cheap the replacement cost is. Sometimes progress is a good thing.

There is no denying that LED lighting (especially efficient white LEDs) have (mostly in a positive way) totally changed the world's lighting (they are now everywhere), they are not infallible.  I see many examples of failing LED-based lights. Usually though it is not the LEDs themselves but  their electronic power supplies.  Most common failure mode is rapid flashing, but I have seen many traffic light fixtures where entire stings of individual LEDs in the lens are dark, and similar problem with car taillights.