the legend lives on from the chippewa on down

[Volzfan59]

Thank you David/ @espo!

Edited Wednesday at 08:34 PM by Volzfan59

[michelle]

The owners of the Edmund Fitzgerald were more interested in making money than taking proper care of her overloading her to break records of tonnage hauled another load shipped instead of pausing to make minor repairs  she was used and abused Whatever maintenance could be put off was she was overdue for repairs that finally were set for winter layup she was worn out carrying a maximum load and just not able to handle the massive storm she was caught in  
this is the same issue that caused the loss of the carl d bradley on november 18 1958 in lake michigan  and the danial j morrell on november 29 1966  in lake huron the owners/operators were more interested in profit then the ships and the crews 
also both of those ships were way older then the fitz was the bradley was launched in 1927 the morrell was launched in 1906  and the fitz was launched in in 1958
and each ship was operated by different owners/operators  the bradley was the flagship for the bradley transportation company
and the morrell was owned and operated by the cambria steamship company a subsidary of bethlehem transportation company 
and the fitz was owned by northwestern mutual life insurance company  and operated by columbia transportation division of the oglebay norton company 
 

Edited Saturday at 09:27 AM by michelle

[michelle]

the fitz's sister ship was layed up a couple years after the fitz was lost  and was sold for scrap since it was found to have the exact same issues with it's hull as the fitz had at the time it was lost 
 

Edited Saturday at 09:29 AM by michelle

[michelle]

the mystery of exactly what happed that night to the fitz is like a siren it draws you in 
and another thing that makes it such a good mystery is the more answers you get  the more questions are raised 

[ranma]

I'm going with the Domino effect . Badly need of  repairs, A Strom like a Ocean Hurricane on a "shallow lake". Ship taking on water with a list , Radar stopped working that could have been  due to damage from said storm. Waves as high as 35 ' water is a powerful thing. So I think a combo of these and the fact the front of the ship bottomed on the lake floor at that extreme angle Loaded  with Iron Ore Pellets, the keel wasn't made for that extreme. So the Titanic of the great lakes Broke  in two like TITANIC, But because of the storm the ship was gone in seconds. In diving photo's of the Fritz there is damage to area's near the wheel house , twisted  or dented badly. As I said water can be very powerful. Look at the damage that the power plant in Japan took  from a Tsunami!

 

[Volzfan59]

Even though we know what happened with the Titanic, I’ve often thought that the story of the Edmund Fitzgerald would make for a good movie. I realize that no one knows for sure what happened, we all have our guesses, so liberties would have to be taken.

[michelle]

4 hours ago, ranma said:

I'm going with the Domino effect . Badly need of  repairs, A Strom like a Ocean Hurricane on a "shallow lake". Ship taking on water with a list , Radar stopped working that could have been  due to damage from said storm. Waves as high as 35 ' water is a powerful thing. So I think a combo of these and the fact the front of the ship bottomed on the lake floor at that extreme angle Loaded  with Iron Ore Pellets, the keel wasn't made for that extreme. So the Titanic of the great lakes Broke  in two like TITANIC, But because of the storm the ship was gone in seconds. In diving photo's of the Fritz there is damage to area's near the wheel house , twisted  or dented badly. As I said water can be very powerful. Look at the damage that the power plant in Japan took  from a Tsunami!

 

the carl d bradley in 1958 also broke in two  and the daniel j morrell in 1966 broke in two  and the edmund fitzgerald in 1975 broke in two 
another fact all 3 held the name the queen of the lakes which is a title held by which ever ship at the time was the longest ore freighter on the lake 
the fitz also had 4 other nicknames over the years i was in service the big fitz the mighty fitz and the toledo express and the pride of the american side 
some say bad things happen in 3s and when you think about it after fitz's loss new rules and regulations were issued by both the ntsb and the coast guard  and there has not been another sinking of a ore frieghter since so with now known it means the loss of the fitz in a november storm just like the previous 2  and that also split up aka broke in two  again like the previous two  was the third of those bad things  to happen 
there were two crew members that survived and were rescued from the bradley and only one crew member that survived and was rescued from  morrell  
the morrell had a crew of 29 the bradley had a crew of 35 and 23 of the 33 that died were all from the same town rodgers michigan which is were the ship was registered. also on of the two bradley crew that survived later was the only survivor of the crew of the morrell 
 

Edited Saturday at 04:08 PM by michelle

[michelle]

43 minutes ago, Volzfan59 said:

Even though we know what happened with the Titanic, I’ve often thought that the story of the Edmund Fitzgerald would make for a good movie. I realize that no one knows for sure what happened, we all have our guesses, so liberties would have to be taken.

as long as those liberties don't do what both titanic and pearl harbour movies both did intertwine a  horrid love story sub plot  or some mcguffin like a necklace 
they should model the film about it in the same way the pt 109 movie was done or the perfect storm movie 

[bbowser]

I was stationed in Duluth at the time, a heavy blow to the community.  Lightfoot's song was number 1 for years!  I still get chills when I hear it.

[Volzfan59]

4 hours ago, michelle said:

as long as those liberties don't do what both titanic and pearl harbour movies both did intertwine a  horrid love story sub plot  or some mcguffin like a necklace 
they should model the film about it in the same way the pt 109 movie was done or the perfect storm movie 

I agree with you 100%. I did enjoy both the Titanic and Pearl Harbor movies, I could have done without the extra liberties.

 

29 minutes ago, bbowser said:

I was stationed in Duluth at the time, a heavy blow to the community.  Lightfoot's song was number 1 for years!  I still get chills when I hear it.

I remember reading that Gordon Lightfoot actually got mad when he found out that “Wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald” was released as a single. He had recorded it more as a tribute to the sailors, the tragedy and for the families. His record label made the decision to release it as a single. I’ve got a copy of the Summertime Dream album. It is great, beginning to end.

[Ace-Garageguy]

10 hours ago, ranma said:

I'm going with the Domino effect ...

Aviation "accidents" are very often caused by the stackup of relatively minor occurrences, like a seemingly insignificant maintenance oopsie coupled with an inexperienced or tired pilot who reacts wrong or slowly to an incident or condition that would normally be taken in stride.

When enough small things stack up, a crash can become inevitable.

[ranma]

7 hours ago, michelle said:

4 other nicknames over the years

It was also called the Titanic of the great lakes. The last words from the captain was "were Holding our Own" He said before that it's the worst storm  he's ever seen on the lakes. Though the great lake Freighters  are simular to Ocean going ones There are differences. As the lakes being fresh water is less caustic  as sea water. So the lake freighters have almost a thee time longer use. If it hadn't sank then it could have been any number of crossings before the season end . In 1971 she was changed over from coal burning to oil burner. At the end of its season in 75 it was to be dry docked for refit/and repair. the Captain slowed it down for the other ship because of the radar problems, from 16 miles ahead to 10. But as I said water is a powerful beast when it comes to storm's or earthquakes!

[michelle]

45 minutes ago, ranma said:

It was also called the Titanic of the great lakes. The last words from the captain was "were Holding our Own" He said before that it's the worst storm  he's ever seen on the lakes. Though the great lake Freighters  are simular to Ocean going ones There are differences. As the lakes being fresh water is less caustic  as sea water. So the lake freighters have almost a thee time longer use. If it hadn't sank then it could have been any number of crossings before the season end . In 1971 she was changed over from coal burning to oil burner. At the end of its season in 75 it was to be dry docked for refit/and repair. the Captain slowed it down for the other ship because of the radar problems, from 16 miles ahead to 10. But as I said water is a powerful beast when it comes to storm's or earthquakes!

i think it got that name  later due to the size of the ship and the fact in went down  

great lakes ore frieghters are not designed for the ocean the bottoms of their hulls are more flat  verses the deep v hulls on ocean going vessels called salties 
one example of this was a great lakes ore freighter that was sold for scrap to a scrap yard in the uk  and was being towed there well due to the ships hull design it was not able to handle the open seas of the north atlantic and it ended up sinking off of nova scotia not to far from were the titantic went down 

and were holding our own is only part of that final message  there is more that people who make the videos on youtube and else were  seem to have forgot or did not know the whole final message was we're holding our own, going along like a old shoe 

waves during late fall early winter storms on the great lakes do not have as much fetch between them like they do in the atlantic or pacific so they come back to back with very little space between them and punch and jab at a ships hull  like a boxer with a fist unlike in the open oceans which the fetch between waves are more spaced out  so they just slap at ships hulls like will smith slapping chris rock across his face with a open palm  

Edited Sunday at 12:03 AM by michelle

[Matt87]

I still want to get up to White Fish point to the shipwreck mueseum It is impressive how much weight the freighters can carry last time i seen a Freighter in UP near Epouphette MI first thing i thought of was the Edmund Fitzgerald

[michelle]

i will be printing and painting a few different models of the fitz in october so they will be ready for the 50th on november 10th 
i plan on posting one build at 2:15 to 2:30 pm on the 9th of november as that is when the fitz left the loading dock in superior wisconsin on it's downbound trip to zug island in detroit  i then plan on posting another build between 7:00 to 7:15  pm november 10th and then plan on posting the final build at 2:00 am on november 11th 
each build video will have the wreck of the edmund fitzgerald song playing in the background one will be gordon's original one will be home free's acapella cover i posted on the first page of this thread and i will have a different cover of the song in one if i can find a way to make it happen i plan on having either all 3 or the last one have the names of all 29 men  they went down with the fitz to scroll past  with pictures of each man at the end but i am not a video editor so i will have to find someone who can help with that otherwise it will just be  a piece of paper with each name on it which i can do 

 

Edited Sunday at 07:31 AM by michelle

[johnyrotten]

14 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

When enough small things stack up, a crash can become inevitable.

To quote my old Plant Manager, a retired Marine: disasters/catastrophe's are a series of small incidents and decisions that lead up to an event. There's no such thing as an "accident". 

Edited Sunday at 12:21 PM by johnyrotten

[iamsuperdan]

Especially when aliens are involved.

 

👽

[stavanzer]

On 9/21/2025 at 5:20 AM, johnyrotten said:

To quote my old Plant Manager, a retired Marine: disasters/catastrophe's are a series of small incidents and decisions that lead up to an event. There's no such thing as an "accident". 

The well known "Swiss Cheese model" of Accident Investigation. Juan Browne aka "Blancoliro" , and Years of watching "Mayday-Air Disaster" have Taught me about it. When all the holes line up... There's your accident.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model

 

[ranma]

The Anderson got lucky It could have met the same fate. According to its captain and crew it was hit by two massive waves that sent the bow under. One crewman in the wheelhouse watched as those waves headed for the Fritz. The captain of the Anderson really didn't want to go back, but being the only ship close enough he did so, But it scared the life out of him. "do you know what the conditions are like out there?" he asked the coast guard... BTW The Anderson had one life boat destroyed, who knows what other small damage she had from that storm... Anywho Michelle have you ever been on a boat on any of the lakes during a storm?? I have on a fishing boat and let me tell you it gets rough real quick on a shallow lake!

[michelle]

4 hours ago, ranma said:

The Anderson got lucky It could have met the same fate. According to its captain and crew it was hit by two massive waves that sent the bow under. One crewman in the wheelhouse watched as those waves headed for the Fritz. The captain of the Anderson really didn't want to go back, but being the only ship close enough he did so, But it scared the life out of him. "do you know what the conditions are like out there?" he asked the coast guard... BTW The Anderson had one life boat destroyed, who knows what other small damage she had from that storm... Anywho Michelle have you ever been on a boat on any of the lakes during a storm?? I have on a fishing boat and let me tell you it gets rough real quick on a shallow lake!

the captain of both the anderson and the william clay ford talked afterwards and the captain of the ford said that he would go out also if the capt of the anderson decided to  
here is another quote from capt cooper to the coast guard alot of people do not put in their documentaries and write ups cooper told the coast guard during one of the times they asked the captain to go back out  cooper said the following  there is already one boat at the bottom there could be two if i go back out there 

the anderson is still operating and doing runs
the william clay ford's pilot house was removed and added as part of the dossin great lakes museum in detriot  when the rest of the ship was scrapped in 1987 

i get sea sick very easily 
i was on a tour of the brig niagara  in erie pa during a field trip my senior year of high school i got sea sick from the ship bobbing up and down  while moored and ended up throwing up down the side of the hull cause i was not able to hold it in long enough to lean over far enough for it to go in the water 
i even get queasy on floating docks when they bob with the tide 

[ranma]

51 minutes ago, michelle said:

i get sea sick very easil

Sorry to hear you get sea sick so easy. If the anderson's bow was forced down into the lake by those two waves then The Fritz which was 10 miles ahead did so as well, So it makes sense that the Fritz nose dived to the bottom then the Keel under that Pressure snapped, and quickly followed suit to the lake floor.

[michelle]

55 minutes ago, ranma said:

Sorry to hear you get sea sick so easy. If the anderson's bow was forced down into the lake by those two waves then The Fritz which was 10 miles ahead did so as well, So it makes sense that the Fritz nose dived to the bottom then the Keel under that Pressure snapped, and quickly followed suit to the lake floor.

if the fitz bow was forced down to the bottom there would still be  about 200 feet of the hull sticking up in the air above the surface due to the area it went down in  around 530 feet deep and the fitz was 728 feet long bow to stern 
the fitz's keel was loose and had a damaged prop shaft and a hastily repaired prop that was also never rebalanced which would be why mcsorley said  in a earlier radio conversation with the anderson during that voyage  that he had never seen the ship ride the way it was 

 mcsorley said don't allow anybody on deck 
The order was given as the fitzgerald was being battered by one of the worst storms mcsorley had ever encountered. During a radio conversation with the swedish freighter avafors, mcsorley inadvertently left his microphone on, and the avafors' captain, cedric woodward, overheard him shout the order to his crew. 

Edited 9 hours ago by michelle

[BERT100]

Quite a bit of information given here, some of which I never knew about or didn't understand.

However, Michelle, I now have you to blame  er thank for  Lightfoots song running in my head for the rest of the day 😁

[michelle]

1 hour ago, BERT100 said:

Quite a bit of information given here, some of which I never knew about or didn't understand.

However, Michelle, I now have you to blame  er thank for  Lightfoots song running in my head for the rest of the day 😁

your welcome 

[michelle]

here is a rock cover of the wreck of the edmund fitzgerald from the canadian rock band headstones