Johan 1959-60 Cadillacs,How accurate?

[HotRodaSaurus]

I am thinking of building a JoHan Cadillac kit, notably the 1959 version but maybe also the 1960 too.

Are there any major inaccuracy's I should note? I did notice the panel behind the rear windshield is not as wide as Revell's Seville kit and I did own a 1-1 flat top sedan that had this wide section.

What parts are interchangable etc. I plan on building a Series 62 sedan with this kit so all that glittery side chrome must go.

I would like to use the JoHan kit as I feel the hood is a more accurate reprisentation and not quite interchangable with the Revell Monogram kit.

Thanks, John

[Eshaver]

John, I remember that kit from YEARS ago . It had some flaws like the shallow interior tub. Overall and considering the tools and dies of that era , it wasn't too bad . I dare say you could just drop in Revell parts without some modifications though. That's just my personal take on the subject..... Ed Shaver

[Zoom Zoom]

Unfortunately they're underscale; they were made smaller to fit the boxes. If you do careful paint/detail they will look good, but a Revell/Monogram '59 Eldorado next to them will look bigger because they are properly scaled.

Johan made the Cadillacs small; they made smaller cars like Studebakers & AMC's in 1/24 scale...again more like a box-scale than sticking to 1/25 scale.

[MrObsessive]

Bob's right about the scale differences with Johan's Cadillacs vs. Revell's.

I built the Modelhaus 1961 Cadillac 2 dr hardtop a couple years ago------when it was done it WAS noticeably longer than the original Johan '61 4 dr. it was based on which I also had. Don tells you on his website the wheelbase and fenders had been corrected to the proper length due to the initial "shrinking" of the car by Johan.

I also have a Johan (nee X-EL) promo of a '58 Cadillac Sixty Special----a BIG car in its day! Comparing it to other cars in its "scale", it also appears a bit smaller than it should.

[Chuck Most]

Really, the only two Caddy kits I can reccomend are '59's- the Hardtop/Convertibles by Monogram that you mentioned, and the AMT Ecto 1A (ambulance).

The Monogram Caddy has been discussed at length, and deserves all the praise heaped upon it. The Ecto 1A, on the other hand, is really more like the JoHan kits- slab chassis, somewhat shallow interior tub with most everything molded in place, but the body looks nice.

The grille has a couple of divots molded into it to accept flashers, and the headlamps are molded in. But the Monogram grille, with it's unblemished grille and separate clear lenses, fits the Ecto body pretty well (though some gap filling along the bottom edge of the hood will be required. You'll also need to remove the mounting points for all the Ghostbusters stuff that mounts to the body.

A bit crude? Yeah, but it would be quite a bit easier to find than the Jo Han Caddys, and you don't see too many of them. If you're really brave- you could probably even use the Ecto 1A body on the Monogram chassis. I wouldn't go that far, though!

[mr moto]

Johan made the Cadillacs small; they made smaller cars like Studebakers & AMC's in 1/24 scale...again more like a box-scale than sticking to 1/25 scale.

A few years back I checked the wheelbase on the Johan '62 Studebaker Lark against the real car specs and if I remember right it was about 1/23! Whatever it took to fill the box!

[Art Anderson]

Unfortunately they're underscale; they were made smaller to fit the boxes. If you do careful paint/detail they will look good, but a Revell/Monogram '59 Eldorado next to them will look bigger because they are properly scaled.

Johan made the Cadillacs small; they made smaller cars like Studebakers & AMC's in 1/24 scale...again more like a box-scale than sticking to 1/25 scale.

Not so much under scale, as out of proportion. I did a conversion of Revell's '59 Impala (Incidently, ALL GM cars for 1959--except of course Corvette--used just one series of body shells for 1959, differing only in lower body sheet metal styling, and wheelbases), into a Biscayne 2dr sedan. Now, having a 1:1 '59 Biscayne 4dr in the driveway made checking dimensions on the Revell kit a breeze (it's quite accurate). Given the commonality of body shells across the GM passenger car line for that year, I took a look at a JoHan '59 Cadillac Fleetwood 60 Special 6-window sedan, which in real life has exactly the same body shell structures and upper body sheet metal shapes as my Chevy did (even the glass is interchangeable), for that project.

My findings, upon measuring the JoHan Caddy? Front clip is several scale inches too short, same with the rear deck/quarter panels. The body shell is 3-scale inches (that's 1/8" actual on the model) too narrow. BUT, the "greenhouse" (which is the roof and body structure above the beltline, from the base of the windshield to the base of the back window) is not only exactly the right length, front to back, but also the correct height for any GM 4dr sedan roof.

Here's the deal: GM's marketing people, whomever at the General did the buying of promo's, apparently decreed that promo's all be made to fit the same size box, regardless of marque. So, if a company was to make the senior GM car, the Cadillac, it had to fit the box size that GM approved for a Chevrolet. Aa a result, every Cadillac promotional from the AMT '56 Coupe de Ville through JoHan's 1979 Coupe Deville, including all the Eldorado front drives, was tooled smaller than actual scale, some even fudged in proportion to "fit the box".

Art

[Harry P.]

If the "same size box" was so important to them, why didn't they take the largest car, scale it down correctly, make a box to fit, and then put all the other models in the same size box? Too logical???

And besides that... a '59 Impala was 211" long, a '59 Cadillac Fleetwood 60 was 225" long, a difference of 14"... or in 1/25 scale, less than half an inch. They couldn't fit a 1/25 scale Impala and a 1/25 scale Cadillac in the same size box???!!!

[Foxer]

It just goes to show you, GM had about as much respect for the buyers of their models as they did for the buyers of their metal products ...

[HotRodaSaurus]

WoW! heaps of replies there, thanks.

I wanted to use the JoHan kit mainly for the hood and also because it was a four door, so would be easier to scribe new door shuts etc.

I was also bought a JH 59 as a present on condition I built it!(collectors gasp here haha) so wanted to replicate my flat top sedan using a 60(see Avatar).

Yes I knew about the bodyshell and glass issues on the 1-1 as I needed a screen fro my Cadillac, I was quoted 2 different prices, by two US glass suppliers, the Chevrolet being a cheaper price haha but this was nearly 20 years ago, no doubt there probably all Cadillac prices now.