Darin Bastedo Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 The recent article in Model cars has got me wondering, For what reason do we feel the need to keep dividing and sub-dividing both models and real cars into such narrow definitions. This is especially divicive in the rod and custom catagories. Nobody can seem to agree on what is and is not a "Rat Rod" especially those who build suede or primer cars who take offence to the rat rod name. Why can't a model just be what it is, and be judged on it's own merits. I remember when years ago I build "Barely 'Cuda" a highly modified Pymouth 'Cuda speedster. There was a debate on whether it was a custom, a street machine, a pro-touring build etc. To me it was what it was, A styling exercice to push the envelope of muscle car styling. In the same way the Rat Rod is simply people pushing the envelope of Hot Rod styling in the attempt to do something different. To me these are simply Hot Rods, much in the same way the billet rods pushed the envelope in the eighties. Eventually the excesses that are displayed with in the rat rod builds will become part of the main stream, just as elements of the extreme billet rods have become almost standard fare. The irony here is that both the billet and the rat rod movements started in an attempt to make low budget hot rods. John Buttera was quoted as saying he carved parts out of billet because it was cheaper than repro parts. now in rat rods the disire for legitamaciy has caused builders to seek out actual vintage speed parts that cost many times more than the high tech speed parts available over the counter.
george 53 Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Oh I KNOW this is gonna start somethin, but Imma gonna say it anyways. There IS NO genre for these so called "Rat Rods" If these poor boys could go back in time, they'd be LAUGHED out of town! Those things called rat rods are just peices of junk put together to RESEMBLE SOME kinda car. If a guy WANTS to build a 50's era hotrod, he surely BETTER not use those peices of junk to model after. My brother and his freinds BUILT their own cars, and NOT A ONE woulda called those peices of junk a hotrod. Too bad it's gotta be the younger generation that enbraces these junks as REAL BONIFIED hot rods, caz I'll tell ya this, NO ONE MY AGE thinks much of them, and ONLY the kids find these excuses for transportation cool. IF the even run! Ok I'm USED ta bein attacked on here(which IS a shame), so just let it fly, I ain't goin nowhere., :)
Jairus Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) It's not a shame George... it is what it is! Just because you two guys do not like the current popular trend of "Rat Rodding" does not mean it's wrong. I suffered through the Pro-Street/Pro-touring trend with out saying anything and those cars were waaaayyy less driveable than any of the Rat Rods I show in the article. In fact! While cleaning up the "Rat Hole Customs" booth at the latest Salem Rod & Custom show... most of the overbuilt and overchromed machinery could hardly get out the door once the show was over. SOME HAD TO BE PUSHED they were so un-driveable! While guys like my son-in-law drive rods that are logical, start immediately and are very driveable! In fact Jeremy and I took his truck on a poker run last summer. Never overheated, started flawlessly and was very comfortable to ride around in for 6 hours! Just because it has rust don't mean it don't work! Edited February 21, 2011 by Jairus
Foxer Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 I myself find the whole idea of sticking cars in some predefined slot silly. I think it all derives from people at these "contests" needing more definition classes so all have a better chance for a trophy. A hot rod is a hot rod is a hot rod. There was NO definition of a "traditional" hot rod back in the '50's like there is now. I'd venture many REAL hot rods built in the '50's wouldn't meet the present day definition. Those were all built on a shoestring budget using whatever they could find. hmmmm .. what is that "rat rod" definition again?. Personally, I don't like defining Rat Rods either. To me, they're ALL Hot Rods!
george 53 Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Jairius, in all honesty i NEVER said it was WRONG. I just told it as i felt it. If a guy can't take pride in makeing something SOOOO COOL that everybody wants one like it, then WHAT did he do? I was there to see the way those young fellas polished the stainless, HAND POUNDED sheetmetal to fit where it had rusted thru, simply BECAUSE they DIDN'T want a crappy lookin ride. How these younger guys can take pride in a pile of JUNK is beyond me. Maybe it's caz I saw and grew up around REAL hot rods and NEVER saw a peice of junk built. Seems like these so called builders take pride in creating somethink that's CRAPPIER looking than the next guy. But hey, to each their own. I';; never call 'em hot rods, caz they aren't .Their JUNK rods. That's a more appropriate name for them. Never saw a REAL RAT look that bad, unless it was ALREADY DEAD!(an I've seen REAL rats!) And from the looks of the hood of that car, IT doesn't look like a rat rod. IS it?
Jairus Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 What is cool to one guy, might not be cool to all George. You cannot possible create something/anything that everyone likes... unless it is an antidote to cancer or a better tasting soft drink. The fact is that everyone has a slightly different personality and that leads to vastly different viewpoints of what cool is. Chrome is not always appropriate. Chip Foose does not ALWAYS draw perfect pictures. Gregg can't tie his shoes. You CAN have too much horsepower. Rock'n Roll was perfected in 1977. Some truths are just evident. The Rat Rod trend is big. Get over it! It will eventually end just like the Billet trend, the Monochromatic trend, the Pro-Street trend, Van craze... etc! Just because you don't like it does not mean that the cars they build are "junk". Just different. Yeah, that hood fits right because it was built carefully. Is there rust? Yeah some. Do I call it a Rat Rod? Not really... guess you DIDN'T read my article. But it is COOL and a lot of fun. We get thumbs up from guys in HONDAS for heavens sake! What more can you or I ask? (Beer maybe)
Dr. Cranky Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) This is the way Doctor Cranky looks at it. If it draws my attention, I don't really care what it is or what they call it. Rat Rods (many of the ones I've seen with my own eyes) have a great cool factor, and like those huge and uncomfortable choppers, I would not go to the corner store in one (well, maybe to the cigar store) but they are INTERESTING in so far as they show the builders' imagination working with what they had. RAT RODS are really a way to push the envelope in terms of WILD, but in terms of functionality and drive-ability. I grew up in Los Angeles in the early 70s during the heyday of Low Riders and Low Rider culture, and I could tell you those amazing cars really made people flock to them. It's no wonder they were all bought out by the Japanese and Germans to showcase in their living rooms or something. I mean, they all disappeared. What's my point? You like what you like and like good democracies, you respect other peoples' views and move on. Edited February 21, 2011 by Dr. Cranky
RodneyBad Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 What's my point? You like what you like and like good democracies, you respect other peoples' views and move on. Very Well Said Sir. I mean, Dr Cranky All cars look good to those that appreciate that style. I love all cars, trucks and Vans The Van Craze will Return
Darin Bastedo Posted February 21, 2011 Author Posted February 21, 2011 It's not a shame George... it is what it is! Just because you two guys do not like the current popular trend of "Rat Rodding" does not mean it's wrong. I suffered through the Pro-Street/Pro-touring trend with out saying anything and those cars were waaaayyy less driveable than any of the Rat Rods I show in the article. In fact! While cleaning up the "Rat Hole Customs" booth at the latest Salem Rod & Custom show... most of the overbuilt and overchromed machinery could hardly get out the door once the show was over. SOME HAD TO BE PUSHED they were so un-driveable! While guys like my son-in-law drive rods that are logical, start immediately and are very driveable! In fact Jeremy and I took his truck on a poker run last summer. Never overheated, started flawlessly and was very comfortable to ride around in for 6 hours! Just because it has rust don't mean it don't work! Now don't lump me in with George. I didn't say I didn't like them, but more was wondering why there seems to be a need to define exactly what a rat rod is and what it isn't. why can't they simply be just another crayon in the box. Not everything needs to be dissected until you can fit it into a nice comfortable box. why can't we just say they are another variation on the hot rod theme?
Jairus Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Because we humans like to categorize stuff. It makes communication easier if everyone is on the same page, understands the rules and knows where we are coming from.
Chuck Most Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 I'm not big into 'labels' either, but sometimes I feel it's necessary just to communicate a point with people. Thing is, what I consider a 'rat rod', 'custom', or 'whatever' may be entirely different from how you define it. A lot of guys would consider an Escalade with 26" spinners custom. I wouldn't, but take that same Escalade, lower it, shave the door handles, add a stainless grille and some new paint, and I would consider it a custom. I think with a 'rat rod' it has more to do with the owner than the car itself. When/if I ever get around to finishing my '34 Ford pickup, I know it won't be perfect. It won't have laser-straight body panels, and none of the door gaps will be perfectly even. It won't have perfect paint, it won't have a perfect interior... heck, it might not even be all one color! It won't be a traditonal rod by any means (the T5 tranny and hidden front disc brakes I'm planning kind of rule that out), but it won't be a 'rat rod', even though a lot of people think it would be. And no, I don't take offense to the term. I know what it is... it's my truck! I've got so many more important things on my mind than what some guy at the Admiral station thinks my ride is!
Eric Stone Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) I think what George is saying is that some of them are actually really legitimately pieces of junk. I've seen em too, where there's not just "some rust", but the body looks like something that probably should've been left in the field where it had been comfortably resting (rusting?) for the previous 50 years. I also wonder how someone can be proud of bolting a rotted body on a poorly thrown together frame with a Chevy 305 on it running open headers so as to give the illusion of performance... I'm all for something with a little patina, or seeing something in a transitional phase where it's just good to be on the road and running well/reliably before it gets cleaned up, but to start out to build something with the intention of it being a piece of poo... Meh, no thanks. Jairus, I didn't see any of the above-described vehicles in your poker run album, just to be clear. Edited February 21, 2011 by Eric Stone
Eric Stone Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 And slightly back on topic... Yeah, people love to over-categorize things. You think there are a lot of automotive genres? Check out how subdivided music is these days...
ra7c7er Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 I don't really care either way EVERY type of show car classification started with younger guys not wanting to do what their parents/old folks did before. So what the new trend is "rat rods" the next trend mind be Priuses or anything. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong or they don't care. Honestly I know several young guys that are building "rat rods" and their reasoning is building something different and unique something that goes against the establishment and you know what EVERY show car builder when they were young said the same thing about the cars they were designing and building. So knock them if you want but they are putting something new out there and without new stuff every car show would be 20 different takes on 57 chevy and 32 ford and nothing else. I personally don't have an opinion either way some are cool looking some look like ###### but I can say that about show car 57 chevys, 32 fords, and customs and every other class of show car too.
Dr. Cranky Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Here's another point, and this pertains to car model builders in particular. You develop your tastes whether you like it or not by cutting your teeth on styrene. It seems to me you are not going to build what you don't like, right? Why waste precious time building yet another box stock or whatever if you don't like it . . . the same is true for the vehicles and styles you don't like. One of my great disappointments when I went to build my first Nascar (I built it for a friend's mother for a birthday gift) was that all those kits are the same . . . of course, I don't know anything about Nascar but it dawned on me that the parts that came in the kits were really limited, and I felt I lacked all the skills to be able to produce a good model, so I naturally blamed the kit and not my skills at that time . . . anyway, it turned me off from trying to build Nascar, but it doesn't mean I don't respect a well built Nascar model. As a matter of fact, I would say that your limitations as a builder are exactly the attributes you end up respecting in someone elses' work.
James2 Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) This is what a true "RAT" is all about. A TRUE biker who rides his bike every where, never works on the machine except when it breaks down. Usually on the side of the road. The only time the machine is cleaned is when it rains, and the term "Rat" is a reference to a "Pack Rat." Some one who never throws anything away. In the old days these Pack rats carried all they owned on their bikes with them. They strapped on any and every thing they found. So moving forward in history. It seems that the Rodders decided to capture this look in the automobile world. They took old parts from several cars and put them together to make one car. Some what, cleaned up the pack rat side of the look and entered them in shows. I would have to guess, but I believe some old time biker saw a car like this at a show and thought it reminded him of a "Rat Bike" and the name Rat Rod was born! The funny thing is, we in this hobby, take bits and pieces from several deferent kits, add some personal touches and spare parts all the time. We call them MODELS! The idea of breaking up contest into groups is nothing new. I believe it just makes things easier. I like specific grouping myself. J2 Edited February 21, 2011 by JAMES2
trey allen Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 I got the rat rod comment about my car a lot. I think what the issue is, is that some people dont understand the term rat rod, and throw it at anything that is flat black, and old. Honestly, I would usually get offended when someone would call my car a rat. It was normally the older guys with 39 fords that they bought a few years ago, paid someone to do the work, and then drove it on occasion. My car was built by me, over a few years. There was no rust, everything worked on it, and it was perfectly safe (except when I was driving, haha). Honestly, the phrase is almost dead. Its nowhere near as prominent as it was 4 or 5 years ago, and im ready to see it go. My car is long gone. I sold it to some guy in Cali for about 10x what I had into it. I miss it at times, but I don't usually have regrets.
Jairus Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Now THAT is a nice ol'skool HOT ROD! Three thumbs up! Edited February 21, 2011 by Jairus
george 53 Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Gotta agree with Jair on THIS one! THAT is one sweet lookin HOT ROD!!!! callin it a rat ANYTHING would be WRONG! THAT is a TRUE bonified Hot Rod!!!! (and a NICE one too!!!)
Greg Myers Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Because we humans like to categorize stuff. It makes communication easier if everyone is on the same page, understands the rules and knows where we are coming from.
Terror Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 The hate for these machines is proof the fad is working. If I think its cool it doesn't matter to me what anybody else thinks.Having a ton of money and buying a new sports car, to me, shouldn't be in a car show for old cars.Dealers have car shows every day just stop in and look around. do my old shoes qualify for rat rods?They have holes and I still get around in them,also I have aftermarket laces in them. Why not just call these machines unfinished hot rods?Must be the flat black that upsets people?
Eric Stone Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 ... Why not just call these machines unfinished hot rods?Must be the flat black that upsets people? That wouldn't be accurate either, because if you ask the builder, it IS finished!
Guest Johnny Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 There are about 3 "rat rods" as they want to call them that I have seen on a regular basis around town here. A couple have way too good of parts to be what they are saying they are. They are more in line of being old school hot rods with crappy looking paint wheels and tires. There were several others that hit the street a coule years back and were deemed unsafe vehicles and had the tags suspended after the owners repeatedly kept coming back out on the street with them after being parked by the police! One was built with a 5 window that was dragged out of a quarry about 20 years ago that sat behind a barn ever since. Looked like swiss cheese!
Jantrix Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 The problem with this rat rod debate is that it's subjective. To the average guy, someone points out that "rat rod" with the rust/flat paint/unfinished chop/open engine/misc parts etc, and there-after everything that resembles it is a "rat rod" regardless of it's quality. Because he doesn't know any better. To me the nasty cars that Mark describes aren't rods at all, they're rolling junk, not deserving of the term "rod". To me the rat rod term should apply to the trucksters and super slammed roadsters and coupes. Assuming they are well built and safe of course. The cars that "sorta" look traditional and old, but were really never done that way. They have a "faux" antiqueness. When I built my truckster, my dad had a chat with me about it. "You know.......we never built them like that, back then." Yeah Dad, I know. But I still like them. I think the fad of these wastes of parts/rolling death traps WILL fade and soon. But the rat rod is gonna be around a while I figure. Good thing too or else Cranky will have to resort to shiny paint jobs again.
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