Is it still a flathead?

[Jantrix]

If I build the engine with the Ardun heads from the Revell F-1, is it still a flathead? I tend to think not, but I'm just want more opinions. The reason for this silly question is that this coming years theme at the fall MAGS show in Tampa is 'flatheads and inlines".

[Longbox55]

It would still qualify as Flathead. The ArDun heads would be considered speed equipment, no different than a set of Thickstuns or Offenhausers.

[Carmikeman]

that would make it an Over Valve Flat Block Head, right?!

Edited April 25, 2011 by Carmikeman

[george 53]

Well Hey Donnie, it DOES make sense. Most Fords ARE Garbage trucks!!!!! HAAAAA Haaaa, I'm sorry, MY Bad, I just couldn't leave that one go!!!!!, they DO make some nice ol tymie Hot Rods!!!!! :D

[SuperStockAndy]

Well Hey Donnie, it DOES make sense. Most Fords ARE Garbage trucks!!!!! HAAAAA Haaaa, I'm sorry, MY Bad, I just couldn't leave that one go!!!!!, they DO make some nice ol tymie Hot Rods!!!!! :D

Chevy for the win!!!

[Eshaver]

Rob, both Nash and Wyllis both had "Flatheads " both simply to save money converted older Valve- N- Head blocks to an Overhead valve arangement . Saddly, we all know the demise of Wyllis as Kaiser took what was left of the company and Nash became American Motors . Technicly speaking, any block that was origgionaly designed to have it's valves in the block was deemed to be a Flathead . Ed Shaver

[Jon Cole]

Look at it this way... if you had an '84 Chevy El Camino, and installed a Buick Grand Nat'l nose & engine, would it still be a Chevy, or a Buick?

Well, in my eyes, it would still legally be a Chevy, due to the vin #, but I would still tell people it was a Buick.

Your engine in question... the block numbers would still indicate it as a flathead, so flattie it is. It it still a flathead, but modded with Ardun heads. IMHO, or course.

[von Zipper]

Rob, both Nash and Wyllis both had "Flatheads " both simply to save money converted older Valve- N- Head blocks to an Overhead valve arangement . Saddly, we all know the demise of Wyllis as Kaiser took what was left of the company and Nash became American Motors . Technicly speaking, any block that was origgionaly designed to have it's valves in the block was deemed to be a Flathead . Ed Shaver

I guess if your going to talk "technicly"-- A "Valve-N-Head" block IS an over head valve engine, if the valves are in the block and the heads are flat-and don't have any valves, It's a flat head.

Once you put Ardun heads on a flat head block--NOW it's an overhead valve engine.

It used to be a flat head-but now it's an over head engine.(where are the valves now ?)

You could have a brand new Toyota that was made out of recycled Cadillacs....but it's a Toyota now.

[george 53]

Actually,Jon, the Vin tells the Make, Model,(Body series) options, paint code, an sequential build number(It's assembly number on the line)of a vehicle. The Engine number does not specify WHICH engine it is. as in it BEING a Chevy or Buick motor. THAT'S one of the ways GM got around the lawsuits in 77 when GM started it's "Corporate Engnies" bull. My buddy ordered a new 77 Cutlass Vista Cruiser and it came with a Chevy 350 in it, NOT an Olds! Didn't believe it till I saw it once while at lunch. Man was he PO'd! Said if he WANTED a Chevy motor, He's a BOUGHT a Chevy! Can't say I blame him.

[Greg Myers]

the heads were not originally designed as speed parts. they were designed for more torque for use in garbage trucks.

Have you checked the history of the Chevrolet "W" engine? That would be their 348 "Truck" engine. AKA "409"

[Jon Cole]

...IMO, a flathead is still a flathead, regardless if it's been converted to run an aftermarket OHV set-up

Right. It don't matter if it has Ardun heads, or anvils for pistons... it will still be called a flathead, technical accuracy notwithstanding.

[diymirage]

along the same lines, if i were to bury a bag of topsoil, would it still be topsoil ?

[charlie8575]

How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

I agree with most of us here, Rob. I would say go for it. Regardless of valve position, the flathead block is the qualifying factor, and the Ardun heads are a recognized and accepted aftermarket accessory for the Flathead V8.

Charlie Larkin

[moparmagiclives]

I think that because you are useing a "flat head" block to build on, your fine. But its an interesting question. Reminds me of an argument I got into with someone about "500" cid small blocks...

[59 Impala]

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? And what does the Chevy 348 and 409 have to do with this? They both are not Flat heads. If your buddy had a flat top hair cut all his life and you called him flat top and then suddenly grew a full head of hair would you still call him flat top?

Dan

[von Zipper]

As it's been said many times around here- "Build for your self"

BUT if you add Ardun heads on any engine block, What you now have is a HEMI,(hemispherical chamber) An over head valved engine that now has push rods-

In the early days of the Ford Model T production, the Dodge Brothers were manufacturing more than half the parts used to build a Model T.

The Chevrolet brothers started out making after market speed parts for the Model T long before they started their own car company-- Much the same way that Zora Arkus Duntov worked with Ardun to make after market parts for Ford Motor Co.

[Longbox55]

As it's been said many times around here- "Build for your self"

BUT if you add Ardun heads on any engine block, What you now have is a HEMI,(hemispherical chamber) An over head valved engine that now has push rods-

In the early days of the Ford Model T production, the Dodge Brothers were manufacturing more than half the parts used to build a Model T.

The Chevrolet brothers started out making after market speed parts for the Model T long before they started their own car company-- Much the same way that Zora Arkus Duntov worked with Ardun to make after market parts for Ford Motor Co.

Correction, the Chevrolet Brothers made performance parts for the Model T after Louis left the company, not before. Before the Chevrolet Motor company was founded (actually by William Crapo Durant, not Louis Chevrolet), Louis and his brothers were factory racers and mechanics for Durants Buick division. Before that, they raced Fiats, and even before that, they raced and manufactured bicycles under the Frontenac name. Frontenac was also the name they used for their business after splitting from Durant, which included not only speed parts for the Fords, but also for the Chevrolet cars from the same time, as well as purpose built race cars.

Also, Duntov din't work "with Ardun", he WAS Ardun! The name was from his last name, ARkus DUNtov.

[Jon Cole]

Correction, the Chevrolet Brothers made performance parts for the Model T after Louis left the company, not before. Before the Chevrolet Motor company was founded (actually by William Crapo Durant, not Louis Chevrolet), Louis and his brothers were factory racers and mechanics for Durants Buick division. Before that, they raced Fiats, and even before that, they raced and manufactured bicycles under the Frontenac name. Frontenac was also the name they used for their business after splitting from Durant, which included not only speed parts for the Fords, but also for the Chevrolet cars from the same time, as well as purpose built race cars.

Also, Duntov din't work "with Ardun", he WAS Ardun! The name was from his last name, ARkus DUNtov.

Life can always be worse... I thank God I wasn't given the middle name of "Crapo".

[Longbox55]

The way I understand it, it was pronounced "cray-po". Either way, I wouldn't want it for a middle name.

[Guest]

If I build the engine with the Ardun heads from the Revell F-1, is it still a flathead? I tend to think not, but I'm just want more opinions. The reason for this silly question is that this coming years theme at the fall MAGS show in Tampa is 'flatheads and inlines".

I agree with you Rob. A flathead without flatheads is not a flathead. Did that make sense? If you're wanting to build an engine with the Ardun heads,take a flathead four (there's your inliner),slap an Ardun head on it with 4 Strombergs on the intake side and a knarly megaphone header on the other side. That's what I would do anyway and probably will some time now that I think about it.

[Longbox55]

Ardun heads will not fit a 4 cylinder Ford, or at least not on the 1:1. For that, yuo would want a CraGar or Riley.

[Jantrix]

Thanks to everyone for their opinions. I guess it will ultimately be up to the guys running the show.

Zipper, ask anyone who has seen my work........building for myself is what I do. I do however enjoy competing a couple times a year and was just wondering if this build fits their theme.

[Longbox55]

Ardun never made heads for the 4 cylinder, only the V8. I've never seen any mention of or any proof af a 4 cylinder head manufactured by Ardun. There were several heads manufactured by other companies that resembled the Ardun (hemispherical chambers, cross flow ports).

[Chuck Most]

Yep- about the only correlation between the Chevrolet car and the Chevrolet brothers was the name. If I recall, Durant died penniless managing a bowling alley, while Henry Ford was in control of his company almost until the end, even though he was, by most accounts, totally senile. And the Chevrolet brothers resorted to making speed parts for Fords. Chalk one up for Fo Mo Co!

As to the question at hand, technically speaking, no, it's no longer a flathead, but since it began life as a flathead, it will always be a flathead. In every magazine article you read, such a setup is ALWAYS described as an ARDUN flathead.

[Harry P.]

From wikipedia:

A popular modification for the flathead was conversion to an overhead valve configuration, and many such modification kits were available, including the Ardun heads from Zora Arkus-Duntov who was to go on to fame as the "father of the Corvette". These conversions were not initially demanded by hot rodders looking for extra power, as they had not yet exhausted the capabilities of the flathead configuration, but were demanded by users of the engine in trucks and other such high load applications, where the constant flow of hot exhaust through the block to the exhaust manifolds caused the entire engine to overheat; the overhead valve heads routed the exhaust out more directly, and away from the block.