DENCON - No longer taking website orders

[george 53]

I've dealt with R&R , Modelhaus, Hendrix, Motor City Resins, Missing Link resins,Porkies resins,MCW resins, Bandit Resins, RMR resins, and now, MAD,resins,and all except R&R are casting useing 21st century methods. ALL these resin casters (except R&R) are EASY up to the standards set by Don Holthaus at the ModelHaus. I've recieved ALL my orders in QUICK time, like LESS than a week from when I sent my money. ALL these I mentioned are SAFE, Secure helpfull places to deal with! They WON'T let you down, and they have some GREAT stuff ta boot! Hope this helps!

[jeffb]

heck george, you can just pick your orders up now!

[george 53]

heck george, you can just pick your orders up now!

PICK UP???? Heck, Jeff, Kev DELIVERED my 70 Mustang!!!!!! An NOW that I know WHERE the super top secret hideout/lair is, I JUST might hold out for the TOP bidder! Secrets cost ALOT you know!!!!! :lol: :lol: Oh, pretty snazzy proffeional lookin place yaz got there! I was very impressed. You guys sure ain't got no "Garage Resin" shop goin there, Top Notch all the way! I was especially impressed with the Unimat Engraver! Wooo Hooo, top drawer stuff!!!!

[jeffb]

bad part is i got voted down on putting the secret lair inside a volcano..

[spkgibson]

I've dealt with R&R , Modelhaus, Hendrix, Motor City Resins, Missing Link resins,Porkies resins,MCW resins, Bandit Resins, RMR resins, and now, MAD,resins,and all except R&R are casting useing 21st century methods. ALL these resin casters (except R&R) are EASY up to the standards set by Don Holthaus at the ModelHaus. I've recieved ALL my orders in QUICK time, like LESS than a week from when I sent my money. ALL these I mentioned are SAFE, Secure helpfull places to deal with! They WON'T let you down, and they have some GREAT stuff ta boot! Hope this helps!

I agree with you on this one, Now back to the Dencon Resin part, I had to wait awhile for 2 69 Charger 500 hoods, Well when they got to my home, I opened the box up, And the hoods shrunk, And were totally useless. I wanted to order one of those 69 Malibu wagons, But I don't even know if I am allowed to purchase from the company anymore, Because of the same reason your having, Long delays .And I brought it up on here also in another thread.

[Chuck Most]

Outer, 1/24 scale. Inner, 1/25 scale.

I think it was called 'Turducken' casting. Don't think it ever caught on!

Oh... can't believe I forgot to menton Modelhaus and Promolite 2000 in my last post. (That repeated thud sound is me slapping myself in the forehead...) Oddly, my most recent resin has come from those two. Great quality, didn't have to wait until my 58th birthday to get them.

[Chuck Most]

bad part is i got voted down on putting the secret lair inside a volcano..

We all need a Fortress of Solitude.

[Guest Johnny]

Matt isn't the first or only resin caster that found themselves swamped like this. One of those situations where by the time you realize you need to stop taking orders you needed to do it a month or two earlier.

I think just about everyone that has ordered something from a cottage industry has run into these issues before or at least know they happen. Anyone that orders from one with the idea that they will get it right away without asking first idf the item is sitting ready is just fooling themselves.

But to get to the issue. What purpose has this thread really been other than being a backhanded way of publicly slamming a vendor?

We get the idea, you are waiting and are miffed off about it. but as far as I know this type of thread is not supposed to exist here. Others that has been less critical have been deleted in the past before getting this far and this one should be no exception!

Heck, if you a vendor and was running behind and trying to get caught up and read this how much incentive would that give you to even bother anymore! It might just cause you to throw your hands up and say "forget it I quit"!!!

I know he has had quite a few he HAS communicated with and said that he cannot give an exact time frame only to be flooded with emails and phone calls by these same people. Hey guys, answering emails and the phone takes time away from resin casting. Now if you are trying to catch up on a bacl log which are you going to do?

It is alright to voice a concern but this goes WAY beyond that and serves no other purpose other than bashing!

[LDO]

If they can't do it full-time, they should only sell at shows and on auction sites when they have completed parts. They can still take part in both hobbies, (building and casting) but avoid all the problems that could happen with accepting money in the mail when product is not in stock and ready to ship. Of course that only addresses the "getting swamped" part of the problem. As for double-hull Chryslers and molded-in masking tape...eh...caveat emptor

I went to a model show once and saw a booth set up for a resin caster. It was a model builder who wanted to help out his fellow modeler. His products were mostly small accessories like car batteries, engines, etc. Everything was made in one-piece molds. As in open-faced. All the parts needed to be cut just about in half and sanded smooth.

[Casey]

Heck, if you a vendor and was running behind and trying to get caught up and read this how much incentive would that give you to even bother anymore! It might just cause you to throw your hands up and say "forget it I quit"!!!

That's kind of the point. If you can't deliver what you offer for sale in a reasonable amount of time after payment is received, you should either stop selling or get some help and increase prodcution so it matches or exceeds demand. Why not have excess product ready to ship if/when you receive more orders for your product?

I know he has had quite a few he HAS communicated with and said that he cannot give an exact time frame only to be flooded with emails and phone calls by these same people. Hey guys, answering emails and the phone takes time away from resin casting. Now if you are trying to catch up on a bacl log which are you going to do?

It is alright to voice a concern but this goes WAY beyond that and serves no other purpose other than bashing!

I disagree. It's posts like these that bring people out of the woodwork to share their experiences, both good and bad. People who have already paid for something and have received nothing after months of waiting aren't at fault here. They deserve good service and goods in a reasonable amount of time in exchange for their money. Letting other forum members know a certain vendor is not providing either one (or both) is not bashing, it's looking out for your fellow builder and preventing them from being taken advantage of.

[Chuck Most]

Customer dissatisfaction will kill a resin caster (or any other business enterprise) dead. I've never dealt with Dencon- he does have some great stuff I do want to buy, though, and despite what I've heard, I just might roll the dice if he keeps the lights on. I'm convinced there are very few 'shady' casters out there, the ones who operate that way generally aren't around too long.

[Drake69]

Matt isn't the first or only resin caster that found themselves swamped like this. One of those situations where by the time you realize you need to stop taking orders you needed to do it a month or two earlier.

I think just about everyone that has ordered something from a cottage industry has run into these issues before or at least know they happen. Anyone that orders from one with the idea that they will get it right away without asking first idf the item is sitting ready is just fooling themselves.

Back up a minute here. If you carefully reread my initial post, you will see that I didn't START to contact him about his delay until March. I placed the order in January, giving him a full two months (4 to 6 weeks???) to work on the item. When I sent the first email, I was courteous and polite about it, and only asked for a possible timeframe, nothing else.

But to get to the issue. What purpose has this thread really been other than being a backhanded way of publicly slamming a vendor?

We get the idea, you are waiting and are miffed off about it. but as far as I know this type of thread is not supposed to exist here. Others that has been less critical have been deleted in the past before getting this far and this one should be no exception!

Heck, if you a vendor and was running behind and trying to get caught up and read this how much incentive would that give you to even bother anymore! It might just cause you to throw your hands up and say "forget it I quit"!!!

I know he has had quite a few he HAS communicated with and said that he cannot give an exact time frame only to be flooded with emails and phone calls by these same people. Hey guys, answering emails and the phone takes time away from resin casting. Now if you are trying to catch up on a bacl log which are you going to do?

It is alright to voice a concern but this goes WAY beyond that and serves no other purpose other than bashing!

1: Please, by ALL MEANS, provide quotes in this very thread where we have bashed, publicly humiliated, or otherwise demeaned him or his work. I would like to read them, seriously.

2: If threads like this didn't exist, then people wouldn't know the state of his company. If people continue to try and funnel money to him demanding product, he would NEVER be able to dig himself out of the hole he is currently residing in.

3: Hey guys, answering emails and the phone takes time away from resin casting. Hmm.... in the business world this is usually the final straw that breaks a company. Right before that, a flood of reports to the BBB. Maybe enlisting the help of a non-paid family-member to correspond to customers MIGHT be an idea??? Here is a hint, it's already been stated before...

COMMUNICATION IS A CRUCIAL ELEMENT TO THE SURVIVAL OF ANY GOOD BUSINESS.

Communication is how customers get reassurance that the money, NOT MATTER THE AMOUNT, they shelled out to someone they never met face-to-face is well invested, pure and simple. If a company cannot effectively communicate to its customers? They need to call it quits. Pay the money back to each customer and fold the business. Yes, they ARE providing extremely rare pieces, but it's NOT LIKE SOMEONE ELSE CAN'T DECIDE TO EITHER REPRODUCE THE SAME PIECE OR DESIGN A BETTER ONE. Not a sleight on his talents, but there are other resin casters out there that are just as good as him that can do it, and make a tidy profit.

So, please illustrate you point on our "bashing". I'm absolutely rife with curiosity over this.

[rssschris]

I personaly have gotten everthing I ever ordered from Lookout/Dencon - I have always found Matt to be good to work with. Not so with all casters. First resin I ever bought- over 15 years ago- still havn`t gotten it. That caster is now out of buissness. Just out that $45. I bought some items from another caster on Ebay , after a few good transactions, I placed on order with him directly, about 2 years ago. Still waiting ,we kept in email contact for awhile, always some reason. I have always been polite, but he just won`t reply to my emails anymore. Quess he needed my $20 more than I did. While that caster has alot of things I would buy - he won`t get another penny from me until I get my item.

My point is , it would be nice if we had a place where we could post the results of our transactions, that way we could read other peoples expereances, and decide if we want to order from them or not.

Chris Downs

[Drake69]

I personaly have gotten everthing I ever ordered from Lookout/Dencon - I have always found Matt to be good to work with. Not so with all casters. First resin I ever bought- over 15 years ago- still havn`t gotten it. That caster is now out of buissness. Just out that $45. I bought some items from another caster on Ebay , after a few good transactions, I placed on order with him directly, about 2 years ago. Still waiting ,we kept in email contact for awhile, always some reason. I have always been polite, but he just won`t reply to my emails anymore. Quess he needed my $20 more than I did. While that caster has alot of things I would buy - he won`t get another penny from me until I get my item.

My point is , it would be nice if we had a place where we could post the results of our transactions, that way we could read other peoples expereances, and decide if we want to order from them or not.

Chris Downs

I agree, wholeheartedly. I think that it would be a credit to both customers and resin casters to have something like this done. Then it would hopefully avoid bad situations and sore feelings.

[mikemodeler]

I will chime in here with a couple of comments.

1. I had tried to purchase most of my resin at shows as I felt that was the easiest way to see the product and ensure that I was going to like it and get it. All of the Dencon/Lookout product I have bought has been at shows, and like was mentioned earlier, his '69 Chevelle wagon had caught my eye. I think for now I will wait. I have recently bought more resin items from other online resin vendors and have been pleased overall.

2. While it was mentioned that a resin vendor should have sufficient on hand inventory before offering it up for sale, I think that is a stretch for most of them to undertake. If you are offering small resin detail pieces, it might be a viable idea but do you think that should hold true for a trans kit or resin body? It might take $20 (or more)of resin to cast a body and I do not think it is realistic for someone to cast 5 or 10 bodies in the hopes that they are ordered. Again, for most of the casters out there, it isn't about getting rich, it is about offering something not necessarily available.

3. Much like the "Good Trader" section, maybe a section on resin casters is needed. Obviously it would need to be policed so it doesn't result in bashing but some type of feedback could help us all. As was mentioned, all one has to do is ask a question here about a caster and usually the forum responds with answers (good and bad).

4. I never send off money to a new caster that I wouldn't be willing to lose otherwise. Sounds crazy but if I send $20 to someone that is new to the biz, I know that I have a 50/50 chance of seeing the product. I have been lucky in that I have yet to get burned but I think part of it stems from being cautious about whom I do business with.

5. I do hope that Dencon can get things turned around as I do like his product but like others before him, he may have done himself in with poor customer service. Sad if that happens, but not can't blame customers for avoiding a bad situation.

6. I am appreciative of the efforts of those casters I have done business with as most of them do it as a sideline. I can't say that I have any "bad" product, just some that may be better than others. I have ideas of some things "I think" would be appealing to others but until I could devote the time and resources to ensure their success, they will remain ideas.

This thread has been great for many to express their thoughts without too much bashing, let's hope it will continue to be that way.

[LDO]

...

2. While it was mentioned that a resin vendor should have sufficient on hand inventory before offering it up for sale, I think that is a stretch for most of them to undertake. If you are offering small resin detail pieces, it might be a viable idea but do you think that should hold true for a trans kit or resin body? It might take $20 (or more)of resin to cast a body and I do not think it is realistic for someone to cast 5 or 10 bodies in the hopes that they are ordered. Again, for most of the casters out there, it isn't about getting rich, it is about offering something not necessarily available.

Of course it should hold true for bigger items. I wouldn't feel better about getting ripped off for fifty bucks than I would getting ripped off for five.

There's no reason they can't offer their products on an internet auction site when they have it in stock. I don't know why people think it's inherently better to have their own online business. Selling at swap meets and auction sites would still get product in modeler's hands. It would also let them avoid being the subject of threads like this.

[LDO]

3. Much like the "Good Trader" section, maybe a section on resin casters is needed. Obviously it would need to be policed so it doesn't result in bashing but some type of feedback could help us all. As was mentioned, all one has to do is ask a question here about a caster and usually the forum responds with answers (good and bad).

It's not gonna happen here. Well, maybe we could get a "good caster" section, but it's kind of pointless when complaint threads get locked. I'm not going to mention any names, but one caster's name KEEPS popping up around here and those threads always get locked.

[Drake69]

It's not gonna happen here. Well, maybe we could get a "good caster" section, but it's kind of pointless when complaint threads get locked. I'm not going to mention any names, but one caster's name KEEPS popping up around here and those threads always get locked.

And THAT'S why this thread almost didn't get started in the first place. When a vendor pays a support fee to a forum or magazine for advertising purposes, they have CARTE BLANCHE to force the mods and admins to delete anything negative being said about them. Don't let any mod or admin tell you different, apparently it happens here too.

It's as bad as the caster's issues themselves, and a great disservice to us consumers that even buy the forum's magazines. Kind of takes the wind out of the sails of "unbiased reporting", doesn't it?

Of course, we don't pay for our forum privileges, and only some of us buy the magazine. Money talks.

[Casey]

2. While it was mentioned that a resin vendor should have sufficient on hand inventory before offering it up for sale, I think that is a stretch for most of them to undertake. If you are offering small resin detail pieces, it might be a viable idea but do you think that should hold true for a trans kit or resin body? It might take $20 (or more)of resin to cast a body and I do not think it is realistic for someone to cast 5 or 10 bodies in the hopes that they are ordered. Again, for most of the casters out there, it isn't about getting rich, it is about offering something not necessarily available.

Considering you can buy two gallons of casting resin for $100 or so, you should be able to get more than five bodies out of that two gallons.

Now, if you're offering large scale bodies that use large quantities of both casting rubber and resin, you're probably not going to keep ten kit on hand at all times, but smaller items (bumpers, wheels, etc.) use very little resin, so why not keep extras on hand? Once you fall behind and have to play catch-up, you get into trouble.

[Drake69]

I have agreed with much of what you've said in this thread, but I think these statements are off-base. The reasons that threads get locked/deleted HERE has everything to do with a desire by the administrators to keep the drama away. It's not choosing one side or other, it's to stop "he said/she said" arguments that MCM has no stake in.

As far as "unbiased reporting" I feel a personal need to say something as it relates to the MCM resin column. When I started it, the point was to de-mystify resin. When it came to reviews, I started out sticking to very beginner-friendly castings that a first-timer could use successfully. Of course, the reviews were positive...I cherry-picked good stuff to talk about. As the columns (some already submitted but not yet published) go forward some of the reviews will feature kits that take more effort and skill to build. I just wanted to put some of the go-to casters on the map first for anyone trying resin for the first time.

What happens on other boards? Impossible to say. I do agree lots of other ones have less-than-level administration. That's why I post here, not there.

Case in point? Notice that this thread is NOT locked, and not deleted. It's because so far everyone's remained civil, the viewpoints expressed (for the most part) are stating facts, not baseless accusations or flaming. When that's the case, the threads stay open. The first hint of angry language or people arguing too strongly? Lockbox or a trip to Deletiontown.

So long as the reason for the threadlock is mentioned, then I have absolutely no problem with it. It's when it magically disappears from the forum that brings into question why it was done. Even a PM from a mod (I know they have lots to do as well, so it's not like they can always do it...) would be enough to explain, if the bashing isn't as apparent.

Unfortunately, like the situation with resins, I have been victim of mod-biased supporter before, not with model kits, but with automotive (read: Jeep) forums where the higher the dollar-value of support given by the vendor, the more blatant the deletions. Of course, they make thousands of dollars for custom parts, they can afford to pay up for positive advertising.

But yes, this is not a proper topic as it pertains to resin products. I agree I was out of line on that tangent, and I hope for the sake of accuracy we can return to norm. If necessary, I can change the name of the topic to something like "Resin Order Difficulties" in an effort to steer away from the direct "DENCON" issue for a time so that it will encourage others to chime in. Would that be acceptable, or do you think a new thread would be more appropriate?

EDIT: NEW THREAD!!!! --> http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=44660

Edited May 26, 2011 by Drake69

[Gregg]

And THAT'S why this thread almost didn't get started in the first place. When a vendor pays a support fee to a forum or magazine for advertising purposes, they have CARTE BLANCHE to force the mods and admins to delete anything negative being said about them. Don't let any mod or admin tell you different, apparently it happens here too.

It's as bad as the caster's issues themselves, and a great disservice to us consumers that even buy the forum's magazines. Kind of takes the wind out of the sails of "unbiased reporting", doesn't it?

Of course, we don't pay for our forum privileges, and only some of us buy the magazine. Money talks.

Actually, I have to disagree with you on this point. I have never let an "advertiser" dictate what is said here on the forum.

Now, look at the quotes: "advertiser"

I am being vague, on purpose.

I do not review any product that I have not had in my hands, ever.

I try to give leeway to others who do their best to give MCM the broad base that we have, and Mark Taylor has done a great job on being as unbiased as he can be, and he tells it like it is.

Yes, it's not good business sense to let readers, or members of this forum, to bash paying advertisers. If there is a problem with an advertiser's product, or services, then that problem should be dealt with between the two involved. Sometimes, I do get emails or am cc'd on emails, and am asked to intercede. Fortunately, I have never had to put the hammer down, and I am very proud of the way that any "problems" with advertisers have been resolved.

You can also see that my advertisers are very small in numbers.

Yes, I keep a very tight control on this, and this is what makes MCM different.

No, I'm not a control freak, it's just the way I have done this for over twelve years now, and it works.

I like the fact that this topic can be discussed in the open, and I really appreciate everyone's honest, open, and civilized responses (so far).

mahalo nui loa

[Drake69]

Fully agree on both posts. I have already got the ball in motion and opened a "RESIN DIFFICULTIES" thread with groundrules we have already discussed here. I'll keep tabs on it to the best of my own ability, and please let me know if I ever overstep my boundaries. I am not a mod or admin, and the jobs those guys have take the patience of JOB, constantly.

[Blake Rogers]

Hey Mark

Man I can't belive someone sold you that thing, people that cast and sell parts like that give us resin slingers a bad name. Not all of us casters sell junk like that or take forever to ship out orders. We always try to get orders out within a week but for the most part we only do semi truck parts, maybe we need to get back into the car parts again.

I can vouch for porkys products the HO scale cabs he sold me were unbelievable!!!!!