Scale auto renaissance?

[Craig Irwin]

53 Hudson, 50 Oldsmobile... are we on a path that might eventually lead to an MkII Ford Zephyr/Zodiac?

(Or did I forget my pills this morning.....)

Not from a US model company, only about 35 people in the US even know what one is. I'm not sure they were ever imported here.

[Chuck Most]

All i am saying if the kit manufacturers what to be around when their target demo is no longer buying kits, they should want to keep the younger modelers interested at the same time.

And yes I want more trucks kits as well

Yep. While I love the '50's cars and hot rods, the model companies do need to realize that there WERE vehicles manufactured after 1972 that weren't Corvettes or Mustangs. Again- when the interest runs out (and therefore sales) they'll wish they'd have beefed up their product line.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Chuck Most

[sobpinstriping]

I suppose I'm a younger modeler, being 28 and all, but all of the cars I like to build came out way before I was born and I'm real happy they are releasing the olds and other non gm products.

So I hope they keep releasing new hot rods and customs because I will keep buying them.

[Chuck Most]

I suppose I'm a younger modeler, being 28 and all, but all of the cars I like to build came out way before I was born and I'm real happy they are releasing the olds and other non gm products.

So I hope they keep releasing new hot rods and customs because I will keep buying them.

Same here- I'm good for at least five of the '50 Olds kits, probably more of the Fords. Just saying- I hope they're doing a better job planning ahead than I think they are sometimes.

[Modelmartin]

I remember hearing that when Monogram released the Land Rover Kit in the early 80s that one of Monograms execs really, really wanted it and everyone else there said it would be a dog. We all know what happened.

Then you had every model company doing a Chevy van in the 70s thereby splitting the market up and then they said vans don't sell!

AMT re-released the 65 Mustang in the 70s as a notchback instead of a fastback and they didn't sell so they said Mustangs won't sell. They also did not do the fastback in their 1/16th line of kits.

I am sure there are dozens more stories of inept decisionmaking out there. Sometimes a gut feeling works as good as all of the market research, or vice versa.

I do not think the rapid prototyping thing will happen in a home setting. Too much technology for the average person. Whatever happened to those flying cars and work from home scenarios we were led to believe were around the corner??

[Modelmartin]

Not from a US model company, only about 35 people in the US even know what one is. I'm not sure they were ever imported here.

I do, I do!! I think they were imported. They sold at least 17 of them!

[Modelmartin]

but all of the cars I like to build came out way before I was born

The cars I really like came out before my dad was born. Actually my grandparents were kids when they came out!! 1910-12 Olds limited and 1907-09 American Underslung are my holy grails. I know I will have to scratchbuild them.

[Harry P.]

I do not think the rapid prototyping thing will happen in a home setting. Too much technology for the average person.

I see companies selling the data, consumers plugging the data into their printers and outputting the kits themselves. There's no more technological skill needed to do that than to download a photo from google and print it. The 3-D/RP technology already exists... now it's just a matter of time before the price goes down and "consumer" printers become available.

Remember when VCRs first came out? They were very expensive. In a few years they got so cheap that it was literally cheaper to buy a new one than to get a broken one fixed. Same will happen with RP printers; they'll soon be as common a consumer item as digital cameras or iPads are now.

[Mike]

Yes and no. Yes in that they are coming out with some nice reissue and new tooling for the folks that are actively building. No in that at some point they HAVE to start appealing to a younger market or recapture the interest of my generation (I'm 35) of the late 20's to 30's crowd and get them back in to it. I think we were one of the last of a generations to grow up building kits before the era of Gameboys, Playstations, etc. came to be. The flip-side of this is that the table=top gaming market is HUGE right now with games like Warhammer 40k. They're not automotive kits, but guys are buying, building, and painting just the same as they would automotive kits.

[bbowser]

This is why I prowl this forum. What a great thread!

[martinfan5]

I just make it clear that I dont hate older cars, in fact there are a lot of older cars that I like, but I really dont think in 20 years all the older car kits are going to be selling very well. The age group that would have been buying them is going to be a lot smaller. All I am saying is the model manufacturers need to make sure that they dont lose the 20-30 year market share , or all their business might very well go to the Japanese manufacturers.

Thats another point, their is a demand for newer cars, just look at all the Japanese manufacture's, I would say more then half of the kits made are of cars from the 80s and up.

[Chuck Most]

Another thing the Japanese kit makers are missing- they sell all the JDM stuff, which is fine with me, but rarely do they offer a US-spec version of their kits. There are a few kits they sell which would need little more than a photoetch badge fret to be sold as a US market Lexus or Infiniti, for instance.

[martinfan5]

Another thing the Japanese kit makers are missing- they sell all the JDM stuff, which is fine with me, but rarely do they offer a US-spec version of their kits. There are a few kits they sell which would need little more than a photoetch badge fret to be sold as a US market Lexus or Infiniti, for instance.

I agree and for the most part I am ok with that, but it would be nice to the option to build the US version, and the other thing is most of kits are curbside, and then the price tag is in $30 and up for a curbside . I am not sure but I think that they are not marketing their kits for the US

[Harry P.]

I agree and for the most part I am ok with that, but it would be nice to the option to build the US version, and the other thing is most of kits are curbside, and then the price tag is in $30 and up for a curbside . I am not sure but I think that they are not marketing their kits for the US

And why should they? Model cars are way more popular in Japan than they are here. Japanese kit manufacturers are going to cater to their own domestic market, just as our manufacturers cater to our domestic market.

[fredgsanford]

You are not only completely right, I can hardly believe to what degree you are right!

I'm a 'second generation' modeller myself. I started in the Seventies, exactly when the whole hobby entered what must be it's darkest period in America so far. New kit development practically stopped altogether, once the real car industry stopped commissioning promos. Yes, we then got our share of ponycars, sportscars, vans and trucks, but there are hardly any 'ordinary' American cars in kit form, with the notable exception of the Johan Cadillacs and the lone Oldsmobile. Just to put this into perspective, there is no shortage of Japanese car kits from the period, lots of which quite recently tooled.

And yes, despite I like old cars, early Fifties Hudsons, Oldsmobiles and a baseline 57 Ford are certainly not anywhere near even the middle of my 'want' list. The reissues of the Vans and the Jo-Hans by IMC are more my cup of tea by lightyears. I wish the industry would start picking up where it left off in the early Seventies.

But this is how it goes: The industry tools up this Fifties stuff because people shouted loud enough. We have to learn the lesson. If we want something, we must shout.

So hey, kit industry, if you read this. Where is my '73 Dodge Monaco, '73 Pontiac LeMans, '71 Cadillac, '77 Caprice and '77 Continental Town Car?

These cars may seem interesting to you over in england, but here in the states they are seen as a serious low point in our automotive history. They were oversized, slow and boring. With so many iconic classics, muscle cars and sports cars not having a kit of them how can they justify kits of late 70's flotsam and jetsam.

My 2 cents worth

people starting out modeling want to model what they had , their friends had , or the one they couldnt afford

this being said many adult modelers who are now in their late 30s or early 40s probably started out driving in one of these oversized slow and boring cars and their should be a decent demand for some of them at least. (hows the revell 77 monte carlo selling)

while i agree the monaco caddy and town car would most likley not be worth the investment of tooling , the 73 grand am , lemans gto might , and i tend to think between police cars donks and lowriders a 77-90 impala caprice would sell rather well and have the added bonus of appealing to some younger folks

[Brett Barrow]

Yes and no. Yes in that they are coming out with some nice reissue and new tooling for the folks that are actively building. No in that at some point they HAVE to start appealing to a younger market or recapture the interest of my generation (I'm 35) of the late 20's to 30's crowd and get them back in to it. I think we were one of the last of a generations to grow up building kits before the era of Gameboys, Playstations, etc. came to be. The flip-side of this is that the table=top gaming market is HUGE right now with games like Warhammer 40k. They're not automotive kits, but guys are buying, building, and painting just the same as they would automotive kits.

Then perhaps it would be a wise move for the model companies to get into table-top gaming then?

Look, the model car industry is what it is. The big box store era is over. The industry couldn't sustain the type of numbers it took to stay in those stores. Kids will be into whatever they're going to be into. If they get into car modeling down the road, great. But you're far more likely right now to attract a recently-retired baby boomer to the hobby than you are a teenager. You have to dance with who brung you, as the saying goes. Sure the model companies would like to attract kids to the hobby again but it just ain't gonna happen. They had em and they couldn't keep em. Modeling will never do those kinds of numbers again, sorry. But you can do smaller numbers and focus on a smaller market and still make money and have a successful business. You just have to be smart about it, and doing late-model pickup trucks is just not a smart business move.

[Darin Bastedo]

Ok you want to bring in the young guys? here's what the 20 somthings are driving to our cruise-ins on fridays.

[Chuck Most]

And why should they? Model cars are way more popular in Japan than they are here. Japanese kit manufacturers are going to cater to their own domestic market, just as our manufacturers cater to our domestic market.

Why SHOULDN'T they? The only real change they'd need to make in the majority of cases would be an RHD dash and maybe a photoetched fret or decal sheet with American markings. The US (or European, for that matter) parts could just be included on a small sprue, like you'd see in a Revell-style special-edition reissue. There may be a bigger model car market in Japan, but I really think more people in other markets would buy their kits if they depicted the car they have in their driveway, not it's 'close but no cigar' cousin on another continent.

[Chuck Most]

Ok you want to bring in the young guys? here's what the 20 somthings are driving to our cruise-ins on fridays.

Not s'fast- some of the younger guys are into (in addition to or instead of above)

And I'm not even going to post any tuner/sport compact pics (because I have none to post, mostly).

I'd love having a kit of that Dodge pickup, though.

[Harry P.]

Why SHOULDN'T they? The only real change they'd need to make in the majority of cases would be an RHD dash and maybe a photoetched fret or decal sheet with American markings. The US (or European, for that matter) parts could just be included on a small sprue, like you'd see in a Revell-style special-edition reissue. There may be a bigger model car market in Japan, but I really think more people in other markets would buy their kits if they depicted the car they have in their driveway, not it's 'close but no cigar' cousin on another continent.

Yeah, of course US modelers would rather have a LHD version of a Lexus kit (or whatever)... but the Japanese kit makers probably don't care much about that. So what if they can sell a relative handful of kits to US buyers if they include US-specific parts? It's probably not worth the extra expense to them to do it. They have a strong customer base in their own home country, the model car hobby is booming over there. My guess is that catering to a relative handful of American modelers is not high on their priority list. They probably see catering to our modelers tastes about as important as our manufacturers see catering to their tastes!

[Darin Bastedo]

Not s'fast- some of the younger guys are into (in addition to or instead of above)

And I'm not even going to post any tuner/sport compact pics (because I have none to post, mostly).

I'd love having a kit of that Dodge pickup, though.

If you ask me, the first choice for a modern pick-up kit would be that raptor, but what do I know. Yes there is great interest in the Bugatti, also, but I was going by what I've seen kids driving, and I have yet to see one of those at the cruise-in. Still I think thst there are many cars such as the bugatti, the Bentley continental, the Porsche GT2RS, etc. that would sell far more kits to the young crown than would a 1977 T-bird or 1979 Lincoln. It's just that simple.

[Brett Barrow]

Not s'fast- some of the younger guys are into (in addition to or instead of above)

And I'm not even going to post any tuner/sport compact pics (because I have none to post, mostly).

I'd love having a kit of that Dodge pickup, though.

But next year they'll be into something else. And then something else after that. Making a new-tool model is an almost 2-year process, even with all the modern technology. Look, the model companies made stuff like this back in the 90's. And they couldn't sustain it. They're not going to make that mistake again. Revell made the Bugatti EB110. They made the Dodge Sidewinder. As I said in an earlier post, they were probably able to recoup the cost of that tooling in one big run for the big chain stores. They can't do that anymore, they have to pick subjects that have some potential of selling down the road.

[Brett Barrow]

Yeah, of course US modelers would rather have a LHD version of a Lexus kit (or whatever)... but the Japanese kit makers probably don't care much about that. So what if they can sell a relative handful of kits to US buyers if they include US-specific parts? It's probably not worth the extra expense to them to do it. They have a strong customer base in their own home country, the model car hobby is booming over there. My guess is that catering to a relative handful of American modelers is not high on their priority list. They probably see catering to our modelers tastes about as important as our manufacturers see catering to their tastes!

Anybody remember American Satco? That's exactly what they did, they sold JDM kits with resin LHD dashboards, and they gave up on it right in the middle of the boom days of the 90's.

[Junkman]

My 2 cents worth

people starting out modeling want to model what they had , their friends had , or the one they couldnt afford

this being said many adult modelers who are now in their late 30s or early 40s probably started out driving in one of these oversized slow and boring cars and their should be a decent demand for some of them at least. (hows the revell 77 monte carlo selling)

while i agree the monaco caddy and town car would most likley not be worth the investment of tooling , the 73 grand am , lemans gto might , and i tend to think between police cars donks and lowriders a 77-90 impala caprice would sell rather well and have the added bonus of appealing to some younger folks

My .02 worth:

I keep reading about these "oversized slow and boring cars".

If there are oversized, slow, and boring cars, I suggest it's 53 Hudsons, 50 Oldsmobiles, and 57 Ford Customs. Any car I mentioned in my post can outperform those in every single aspect.

But that's completely beside the point I was trying to make. The point I was actually trying to make seems to have not been understood, so I try again.

In a response to a post somebody made where he rightfully pointed out that the 'younger' modellers are being left out in the current round of newly tooled kits, I wrote that I would appreciate if the model kit industry would pick up where it left in the early to mid Seventies, an age, where we 40somethings just about started to get 'into' cars. The cars I mentioned are just examples of the cars we grew up with. For us, they aren't boring, or slow, or oversized. They are 'our' cars. They are the cars we've seen on the roads, the cars we drove and the cars that were used in the movies we watched. And I want model kits of them. That's all.

American automotive history hasn't stopped in 1972, you know. The model kit industry pretty much has, though.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Junkman

[Brett Barrow]

My .02 worth:

I keep reading about these "oversized slow and boring cars".

If there are oversized, slow, and boring cars, I suggest it's 53 Hudsons, 50 Oldsmobiles, and 57 Ford Customs. Any car I mentioned in my post can outperform those in every single aspect.

But that's completely beside the point I was trying to make. The point I was actually trying to make seems to have not been understood, so I try again.

In a response to a post somebody made where he rightfully pointed out that the 'younger' modellers are being left out in the current round of newly tooled kits, I wrote that I would appreciate if the model kit industry would pick up where it left in the early to mid Seventies, an age, where we 40somethings just about started to get 'into' cars. The cars I mentioned are just examples of the cars we grew up with. For us, they aren't boring, or slow, or oversized. They are 'our' cars. tey are the cars we've seen on the roads, the cars we drove and the cars that were used in the movies we watched. And I want model kits of them. That's all.

American automotive history hasn't stopped in 1972, you know.

But these subjects have sustainability and cross over appeal, in addition to being timeless, iconic designs. Hudsons dominated the early days of NASCAR before the big factories got involved in the mid-late 50's. They made popular kustoms as well. Early 50's Olds were very popular in the early days of Stock drag racing classes. That's also the first mass-produced and affordable OHV V-8 as well, they were some of the earliest hot-rods. As iconic as the 57 Chevy is, Ford outsold Chevy in 57 for the first time since WWII. The Ford Y-block of that era was also a popular early hot rod engine as well.

Sorry, but to us, the cars you mentioned are just forgettable 70's cars. As the country that invented the hot rod and the muscle car, we're really rather ashamed of them.