Local shop closing - Sad days indeed.

[Qwit Pushin]

A week from today, my favorite local hobby shop will be no more. Doug Flores, who with his wife, has owned and operated 'Riverside Hobbies' for 33 years here in Sacramento, will be retiring. The sad thing is that I believe that had it not been for a tough economy, computer games, etc., Doug would have preferred to keep his doors open indefinitely. I will miss not only his store, with it's extensive line of models and detailing products, but also his friendship. I can't tell you how many lunch hours I spent sitting in Doug's shop talking about politics, the economy, the weather, etc. His shop reminds me of the shops my dad used to bring me to in Milwaukee when I was a young kid in the early '60s. I have been a loyal customer of his for over 26 of his 33 years in business, and can say that his shop and his friendship can't be replaced. Take care, Doug and 'Happy retirement'!!

Below is a link to a local TV station's news story about the shop's closing.

http://www.fox40.com/videogallery/66514196/News/Economy-and-Video-Games-Close-Hobby-Shop

[Aaronw]

I always try to hit that shop whenever I'm in the Sacramento area. Too bad, it is a nice old shop and I always find something unusual to make the stop worthwhile.

[ranma]

To bad you couldn't buy it out and keep a hobby shop alive .

[espo]

I'am disappointed too hear about Riverside Hobbies. I lived in Sacto. from 1985 till 1996. Spent a lot of time, and money there. Always enjoyed the visits. If I need anything at all they either had it on the shelf, or would get it for you. I wish them all the best that life can bring.

[Harry P.]

When the economy is in bad shape, like it's been for the past several years, people cut back on expenses... and the first things they cut back on is non-essentials and luxuries... like going out to eat, going to the movies, and hobby expenses.

With all of the competition from online stores, it's tough to keep a hobby shop in the black in good times, even harder in tough times... that's probably why there was nobody willing to buy the business.

[Qwit Pushin]

When the economy is in bad shape, like it's been for the past several years, people cut back on expenses... and the first things they cut back on is non-essentials and luxuries... like going out to eat, going to the movies, and hobby expenses.

With all of the competition from online stores, it's tough to keep a hobby shop in the black in good times, even harder in tough times... that's probably why there was nobody willing to buy the business.

Exactly! I considered approaching him about purchasing his business, but after hearing from him how the internet had impacted his sales, I realized it wasn't viable. I certainly understand that money's tight and subsequently the need to take advantage of deals when they're available, but you can't have your cake and eat it too, as the saying goes. If you choose NOT to patronize the local businesses for the sake of saving a little money by supporting an on-line entity out of your city, state, and or country, you give up any right to complain about local economic woes and rising unemployment in your area. Sometimes the savings aren't worth it when you consider the 'bigger picture.' Just saying....

[Harry P.]

It's a tough call. I can see the argument for supporting a local business over buying online, but the reality is that most people look out for themselves first, and that means buying at the lowest possible price. I sympathize with hobby shop owners who find that they just can't compete on price with online stores... but that's how a consumer-driven capitalistic economy works. Either you can compete and make a profit and stay in business, or you can't compete and you're driven out of business. It's survival of the fittest. It's always worked that way. Yeah, it sucks for those who can't compete, but the system is what it is.

[Qwit Pushin]

It's a tough call. I can see the argument for supporting a local business over buying online, but the reality is that most people look out for themselves first, and that means buying at the lowest possible price. I sympathize with hobby shop owners who find that they just can't compete on price with online stores... but that's how a consumer-driven capitalistic economy works. Either you can compete and make a profit and stay in business, or you can't compete and you're driven out of business. It's survival of the fittest. It's always worked that way. Yeah, it sucks for those who can't compete, but the system is what it is.

Harry, I don't disagree with you regarding "how it is.', just saying that if folks choose to go that route, the savings they realize on individual purchases WILL cost them somewhere else down the line. That savings isn't as 'absolute' as they may believe. It might cost them in local services, because the tax base can't support what it used to. It might be a friend losing a job, a home, etc. The domino-effect here is far-reaching - I'd just ask that we consider ALL of the facts before sending our money out of our local communities.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Qwit Pushin

[mistermodel]

I support the LHS.Now lets say an online store is $8.00 cheaper,wouldnt shpping eat that saving up?

Edited December 18, 2011 by mistermodel

[imarriedawitch]

It's not only about the money. I'll buy new kit releases and my paints from the local guy but I'm not going to limit myself to strictly building what he happens to have in stock.

[Harry P.]

I support the LHS.Now lets say an online store is $8.00 cheaper,wouldnt shpping eat that saving up?

If you go to the LHS, you spend money on gas to get there, and you pay sales tax. If you buy online, you don't pay sales tax, you don't burn any gas, but you pay S/H. If you combine several items in one order you only pay one S/H charge... but at the LHS you pay sales tax on every item you buy.

Generally you'll do better, pricewise, buying online. But you miss the experience of going to the hobby shop and browsing around, which some people like to do. Personally I buy wherever I can get the best price, and almost always that winds up being online.

[Qwit Pushin]

I support the LHS.Now lets say an online store is $8.00 cheaper,wouldnt shpping eat that saving up?

Even if it doesn't, there IS a financial impact that doesn't show up on the receipt. How many people do we know who've been laid off? How long do you suppose the Fed's can continue to bankroll all those unemployed? We're not-so-slowly becoming a third-world country, supplying the raw materials to foreign entities to produce the things we consume here. Job exporting combined with the the financial impact of on-line shopping results in a very bleak future for our local economies.

[Qwit Pushin]

One thing for sure, this forum's 'kit review' will become much more popular!! As more folks shop online, it may be as close as you'll be able to get to 'seeing and touching' the models you're interested in.

[Guest Johnny]

Limited stock has always been a problem for local hobby shops especially since the internet age! But even before so many shops were hurt by order quotas from the Mfg which meant they had to buy through a middle man and that increased the cost over what a chain retail or now online retail store can sell for.

Most around here (all gone now) had to diversify into so many other areas in order to make money enough to survive that the plastic sections suffered in favor of RC, Paintball, Model Railroad etc.

The model section became almost nonexistent.

[Art Anderson]

When the economy is in bad shape, like it's been for the past several years, people cut back on expenses... and the first things they cut back on is non-essentials and luxuries... like going out to eat, going to the movies, and hobby expenses.

With all of the competition from online stores, it's tough to keep a hobby shop in the black in good times, even harder in tough times... that's probably why there was nobody willing to buy the business.

Actually Harry, my experience with the hobby, and hobby shops (and the industry as well) has been much different! How many modelers are aware today, that the industry which supplies and supports our model car building addiction actually had it's beginnings in 1931-32, known today as the very depths of the Great Depression? Yes, those were the years when the likes of Berkeley Models, Lindberg, Walthers had their genesis--albeit in model airplanes and trains. In 1932, one Michael Trost started what became Trost Modelcraft & Hobbies, one of the very first hobby shops and wholesale hobby distributors anywhere around, on the SW side of Chicago. By WW-II, there was a small, but growing industry supplying mostly wood kits for aircraft, ships, and trains, with some cardboard and a few rudimentary pot metal parts and details thrown in. It wasn't until the waning days of WW-II, of course, that any of the model companies we've come to know from the 50's out to today began though--and that corresponded closely with the rise of plastic injection molding.

Just what year was it that AMT Corporation (along with their kissin' cousin SMP) introduced 3in1 Customizing Kits of model cars? Try 1958, and what was that year known for? RECESSION, a recession which brought back memories of the early 30's to many of our parents! And yet, somehow, we kids found the requisite $$ to buy up $1.29 AMT kits, plus enough change for a tube of glue, even a few 10-cent bottles of Testors PLA enamels--and we did it, did it in spades.

The plastic model kit industry was on a roll that year--and the party continued unabated through to the early 70's, allowing such companies as AMT, Revell and Monogram to dump several hundred thousands of dollars each into home slot racing sets and the cars to go with them, only to see those products fail miserably in the marketplace by about 1966 or so, and still survive. (Incidently, as a college student working my way through school at our local hobby shop, I saw first-hand the severe dent slot racing put into the sales of ordinary model car kits back then, the first really serious competition experienced, IMO, by the model car kit product lines. And yet, the late 60's were a time of tremendous prosperity here at home.

The 70's started out to promise great times for this hobby of ours--in 1970, IMC stood everyone on their ears at the Hobby Industry Association of America (HIAA) trade show that January, at the old Sherman House Hotel in Chicago's Loop--a 1/25 scale Dodge L-700 Tilt Cab Semitractor. AMT was not to be denied--showing finally test shots of their first Semi, the Peterbilt California Hauler (they first pitched at idea to the wholesalers and retailers in 1968, then again in 1969, but to no end), and within a couple of years, a whole line of kits of heavy and medium duty truck kits grew up, from AMT, IMC, MPC and a new kid on the block, Ertl. Now, lest anyone think those trucks were inexpensive to tool and produce--the tooling for each and every one of those kits cost, at minimum, 3X the price of a new model car kit too. All went well until the fall of '73, and the rise of OPEC--OIL EMBARGO.

The subsequent ups and downs economically through the rest of the 70's, most notably almost runaway inflation, wreaked havoc on the model kit industry. Early names in the industry, such as Hawk and Aurora faltered, and ultimately both disappeared by the middle of that decade, folded into larger, healthier outfits. Industro-Motive sold off their model kit lines to Testors (Those Famous Fords kits). By the end of hte 1970's, once mighty AMT Corporation skirted bankruptcy when Lesney stepped up, Revell was sold to Ceji, a French toy company. And, something was looming on the horizon to threaten the very existence of plastic modeling: Popularly priced radio controlled cars, and the first electronic games and game systems.

But, a funny thing happened on the way to the forum by about 1980-81--adult modelers, guys who'd cut their permanent teeth on model kits in the late 50's through the 60's began seeking out hobby shops, asking a perennial question "Do they still make model car kits?" (if I had a dollar for every time I heard that question 20-30 yrs ago, my bank account would be a lot fatter!). And, at a time when it surely must have raised eyebrows in the boardroom, Monogram brought out several really great model car kits, in the depths of that recession, 1981-82--not perfect kits, but they sure did show the way forward.

After several years of rising economics, another recession in the land--1990-92--and when did Revell Monogram start issuing what we consider today to be "state of the art" model car kits? 1991-92.

Model building is a form of entertainment, and at that, one of the least expensive forms of personal entertainment there is, unless you compare it to tiddly-winks. It's still very much akin to "beer, the old lady and television", and in buoyant economic times, "wine, women and song" do rise up to compete for our entertainment dollars. But, let things get a bit soft, even a deep recession such as the one we are finally digging out of--and what comes back up? This hobby, of course. In other words, our hobby, as represented here on these forums, is very much counter-cyclical to the economy.

Don't write the obituary of this hobby yet folks! The fat lady ain't even zipped up her tight gown, tuned up her screeching soprano, and sung yet!

Art

[Aaronw]

I support the LHS.Now lets say an online store is $8.00 cheaper,wouldnt shpping eat that saving up?

Not really, you just change your buying habits. One of the shops I use frequently runs a free shipping special, other offer reduced or free shipping for spending x amount.

Even without free shipping I just buy in bulk 2 or 3 times a year instead of making multiple small purchases. Many places use a flat rate shipping fee usually $8-10. On a single $20 kit, an additional $8 is a big deal, another $8 on a $200 purchase (10 models) is a drop in the bucket, less than the sales tax you would have paid at the LHS.

I don't have the luxury of a local hobby shop to support so it is internet or nothing for me. On those occasions I am in an area with a GOOD hobby shop, one that actually makes an effort I do make a point of stopping in to buy from them. Riverside was one of those places, now I'm down to two (all are 4 hours + from my home). I have no problem buying from the internet instead of those hobby shops that have a smaller selection than my stash and unhelpful staff who chit chat among themselves instead of helping you find what you need.

[Harry P.]

Art, all of the history you described was pre-internet.

The internet has completely changed the parameters. It's a whole new ball game. The local hobby shop now has major competition from a rival that didn't even exist in the days you talked about, and that competition is driving the old-fashioned "mom and pop" hobby shops out of business, for better or worse.

It's a very different scenario today than what is was when you were actively involved in the hobby business. The hobby industry may have been "recession-proof" then, but that was because there was no alternative to the LHS. Today we have an alternative that offers a far wider selection at (usually) much lower prices. Let's face it, people vote with their wallets... and judging by the closings of hobby shops all over the country, the voting is not in favor of the traditional LHS.

[scalenut]

one of our local shops , sells on the internet ...He probably makes more from that , but at least he can keep his shop open as well.

by selling online he has far more business than if he just sold from the shop to locals

[Art Anderson]

Art, all of the history you described was pre-internet.

The internet has completely changed the parameters. It's a whole new ball game. The local hobby shop now has major competition from a rival that didn't even exist in the days you talked about, and that competition is driving the old-fashioned "mom and pop" hobby shops out of business, for better or worse.

It's a very different scenario today than what is was when you were actively involved in the hobby business. The hobby industry may have been "recession-proof" then, but that was because there was no alternative to the LHS. Today we have an alternative that offers a far wider selection at (usually) much lower prices. Let's face it, people vote with their wallets... and judging by the closings of hobby shops all over the country, the voting is not in favor of the traditional LHS.

Ahh yes, pre-internet. BUT don't believe for one minute that we had no competition back in the day--because we did! Every dime store chain, drugstore chain, even supermarkets cherry picked model kit lines to stock in their toy aisles. Then comes along KMart and the other mass-retailers, and it was even more so a lot of the time. And,while we didn't have internet competitors, there were a myriad of mail order outfits, lead by Auto World (the original one run by the Kovaleski family), America's Hobby Center, Polks Hobbies in NYC, Bernie Paul in Philly (the guy behind Associated Hobby Mfrs-AHM).

Add to that nearly every hobby shop had to contend with garage and basement operators, who came and went like birds with the change of seasons.

And, the fatality rate for hobby shops for decades was one of the highest in the retail industry, mostly due to a combination of inadequate capital, coupled with the tendency of hobbyists to start hobby shops, which tended to reflect very directly the hobby interests of their owners, often to the detriment of other product lines they could and should have stocked.

Art

[Nick Winter]

I support the LHS.Now lets say an online store is $8.00 cheaper,wouldnt shpping eat that saving up?

when it comes to Buying kits, I always check my LHS First, would go there and get it and maybe spend a bit more, You can't have a nice chat about the hobby face to face with someone buying online, can you,

Nick

[Craig Irwin]

Maybe my LHS discounts a bit, but I can't buy as cheap online with shipping included. And the no sales tax thing will soon be a thing of the past.

[mikemodeler]

Some good points and history lessons in this thread.

Harry- the internet has impacted many businesses and it has been a double edged sword for everyone. I work for NAPA and we hear it all the time- "I found that exact same part online for X dollars cheaper, can you match it?" Think about that for a minute and see if you want to buy a set of brake pads online and save a few bucks. Afterall, it is only your brakes, right?! What if you have a problem or need to return them, they could either stiff you on the deal or charge a 25% restocking fee, then what have you saved?

I was in a Hobbytown USA the other day and picked up the reissued Revell wrecker. It was $1.50 more than Tower Hobbies or Modelroundup was online. Our tax rate is 7.5% so it was still cheaper than online unless I wanted to spend $50 at Tower to get free shipping and no sales tax. Craig said it above, the days of no sales tax on the internet are numbered, the Feds will see to that!

The other interesting part of being at Hobbytown the other day was a woman buying some R/C helicopter for her kid. She was going to buy the $59 ready to fly setup at Target but someone told her to stop by Hobbytown and check their stock. She ended up buying a $129 kit at Hobbytown after the owner explained how they had replacement parts in stock and could repair the copter on site while the Target version would probably not be serviceable. That is something that needs to be taken into consideration, how will you get a problem resolved?

I will admit to buying online and at the LHS and those decisions usually come down to availability more than price.

[Qwit Pushin]

Some good points and history lessons in this thread.

Harry- the internet has impacted many businesses and it has been a double edged sword for everyone. I work for NAPA and we hear it all the time- "I found that exact same part online for X dollars cheaper, can you match it?" Think about that for a minute and see if you want to buy a set of brake pads online and save a few bucks. Afterall, it is only your brakes, right?! What if you have a problem or need to return them, they could either stiff you on the deal or charge a 25% restocking fee, then what have you saved?

I was in a Hobbytown USA the other day and picked up the reissued Revell wrecker. It was $1.50 more than Tower Hobbies or Modelroundup was online. Our tax rate is 7.5% so it was still cheaper than online unless I wanted to spend $50 at Tower to get free shipping and no sales tax. Craig said it above, the days of no sales tax on the internet are numbered, the Feds will see to that!

The other interesting part of being at Hobbytown the other day was a woman buying some R/C helicopter for her kid. She was going to buy the $59 ready to fly setup at Target but someone told her to stop by Hobbytown and check their stock. She ended up buying a $129 kit at Hobbytown after the owner explained how they had replacement parts in stock and could repair the copter on site while the Target version would probably not be serviceable. That is something that needs to be taken into consideration, how will you get a problem resolved?

I will admit to buying online and at the LHS and those decisions usually come down to availability more than price.

Nothing wrong with buying online when the item you seek can't be found locally or at a reasonable* price, but whenever possible, I buy locally. The notion of buying online to avoid paying sales tax has to be the weakest excuse for buying online. It is akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face, so to speak. That tax money is what provides many of the necessary services we all depend on.

Not to get all religious on everybody, but, like occasional online shopping, sometimes it can't be avoided,....

Romans 13:6-7: Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

[440 Dakota]

its actually a shame thing have gone this way,we used to have quite a few full service hobby stores here and plenty of big box stores carried them as well,now we only have a Hobbytown and Hobby Lobby which is really a craft store that happens to sell some kits but they have 40% off coupons often so makes it a deal to shop there

on another related note the internet has also taken its toll on local toy shows,anyone remember Toledo shows say a decade ago ?always jam packed with buyers and sellers now the show is just a fraction of what it used to be,sad really cause that was part of the fun getting out and searching for things

[Greg Pugh]

I needed some paints today so I went to the big hobby shop down the street from Riverside, RC Hobby. It's just not the same. They don't even carry the model car magazines. They had a nice selection of kits but I couldn't even find any Testors Metalizer paints.

You can ask everyone in my family, I'm very sad that Riverside is shutting down.