Moebius Chrysler 300 Photos

[Chuck Most]

Dave posted some pics of the original tooling model on his Smugmug some time ago- http://dmetzner.smugmug.com/Cars/1955-Chrysler-C-300/13100296_JtFzRc#949713917_yHGDW

[Sport Suburban]

What no Plymouth Hemis? I know, I know they didn't get any Hemi's the first time around.

[Art Anderson]

What no Plymouth Hemis? I know, I know they didn't get any Hemi's the first time around.

Plymouth didn't get a Hemi until 1964.

[Art Anderson]

Not sure on the relevence being this is a Chrysler, but if I recall the Desotos came in 276, 291, 330 and 345 displacements, and the Dodge Red Rams were 241, 270, 315, and 325. Depending on year/model/etc.

In 1957, Dodge brought out the D-501, which used left over 354cid Hemi's from 1956 Chryslers. Arnie Beswick used one as one of his very first drag stockers.

Art

[Funkster]

Yes, Plymouth didn't get a Hemi, because they were run by the Chrysler groupe. It was there opion that Plymouth was the low price car and should be so equiped with a low end engine. Dodge was its own model group, DeSoto was its own model group, Plymouth was under the Chrysler group( under the wing of Chrysler) and had its way run by Chrysler. It wasn't on its own like Dodge and Desoto under the Chrysler group.

[chopper430]

man oh man i can't wait for it to come out!

[Swifster]

The problem was that either the '56 Fury or '57 Fury was actually fast than the 300 in the old beach flying mile. Chrysler would actually shut the Fury down before the mile was over so a time was never confirmed. And those were polyhead engines.

[whale392]

Wrong Funkster, Plymouth DID NOT get the first-generation Hemis stock. the pecking order went (Highest-to-lowest):

Imperial,

Chrysler,

Desoto,

Dodge,

Plymouth.

Walter P. Chrysler started with his own namesake line of 'luxury' cars, then bought the Dodge Brothers (who themselves had recently acquired Graham Truck) in 1926. forming the Plymouth Brand as an entry-level auto was done a few years later. When Desoto started to encounter some financial difficulties, Chrysler bought them up and held then until somewhere into the early 60s. Imperial was conceived as an Ultra-Luxury brand to take on the likes of Packard and Rolls-Royce late in the Twenties.

As such, Plymouth got the Poly engines, while Dodge (being the sport line from Chrysler) received the small (for their respective year) Hemis, then Desoto (being the sport-luxury line from Chrysler) got the next-step cid Hemis. Finally, Chrysler got the top-line cid Hemis (being the luxury brand). Imperial also received the top-line engines (always did until Chrysler dissolved the Imperial name).

Now, with that said, Imperial NEVER got the second-generation Hemi. The Chrysler line didn't either, relying on the B and RB series engines for power. HERE is when Plymouth and Dodge both got the Hemi (limited to one cid....426)

If you feel like PROVING me wrong, go for it. I will admit I am not always right, but being as I grew up Chrysler, born to a Hemi owning and driving father, who himself was born to a Chrysler man, I think I MIGHT know a thing or two about the lineage of the marquee.

[Art Anderson]

Wrong Funkster, Plymouth DID NOT get the first-generation Hemis stock. the pecking order went (Highest-to-lowest):

Imperial,

Chrysler,

Desoto,

Dodge,

Plymouth.

Walter P. Chrysler started with his own namesake line of 'luxury' cars, then bought the Dodge Brothers (who themselves had recently acquired Graham Truck) in 1926. forming the Plymouth Brand as an entry-level auto was done a few years later. When Desoto started to encounter some financial difficulties, Chrysler bought them up and held then until somewhere into the early 60s. Imperial was conceived as an Ultra-Luxury brand to take on the likes of Packard and Rolls-Royce late in the Twenties.

As such, Plymouth got the Poly engines, while Dodge (being the sport line from Chrysler) received the small (for their respective year) Hemis, then Desoto (being the sport-luxury line from Chrysler) got the next-step cid Hemis. Finally, Chrysler got the top-line cid Hemis (being the luxury brand). Imperial also received the top-line engines (always did until Chrysler dissolved the Imperial name).

Now, with that said, Imperial NEVER got the second-generation Hemi. The Chrysler line didn't either, relying on the B and RB series engines for power. HERE is when Plymouth and Dodge both got the Hemi (limited to one cid....426)

If you feel like PROVING me wrong, go for it. I will admit I am not always right, but being as I grew up Chrysler, born to a Hemi owning and driving father, who himself was born to a Chrysler man, I think I MIGHT know a thing or two about the lineage of the marquee.

Bradley,

Chrysler Corporation actually created the Desoto make themselves, as of August 4, 1928 for introduction later for 1929. Shortly after the DeSoto announcement, Chrysler Corporation bought up Dodge from the widows of John & Horace Dodge. With the creation of Plymouth in 1928 as their low-priced marque, Chrysler became in the "model" of GM, a multi-line company.

Imperial was never anything more than the top of the line Chrysler (in fact, they were "Chrysler Imperials" until the 1957 model year when Chrysler set up Imperial as its own Division within the company--and Imperial received its own exclusive body and styling (even the legendary Chrysler Airflow of 1934-37 was sold in three levels: Chrysler Airflow, DeSoto Airflow, and Chrysler Imperial Airflow).

Walter Percy Chrysler was arguably the last "self made man" to found a successful automobile company: Born in Hutchinson Kansas, he left school at age 12 (roughly the then-equivalent of the sixth grade) to become an apprentice machinist in the shops of the Union Pacific Railroad. By age 19, Chrysler was the shop foreman. In his early 20's, he moved to Colorado, as the superintendent of the shops of the Colorado Midland Railroad, then moved to Oelwein Iowa to become the Superintendent of Motive Power for the Chicago Great Western Railroad. There he bought his first automobile, and after disassembling and reassembling that car several times over a couple of years (to learn everthing he could about it, he drove it as his first family car). About 1911, Chrysler was hired as the Superintendent of American Locomotive Company (Alco), a position that today would probably be called "Chief Operating Officer" of ALCO, then the largest manufacturer of steam railway locomotives in the World. After being very successful at reorganizing ALCO's production operations, he was tapped by William Crapo Durant to take over the reins at Buick, then a pretty moribund operation at GM, turned it around, setting Buick on the road to long-term success.

In the early 1920's, Chrysler was lured away from GM by the Chalmers-Detroit Automobile Company, then a money-losing operation, where he struck a deal to receive the sum of $1,000,000 if he not only returned that company to profitability, but to a a reported $5,000,000 annual profit. He did, and they paid him for it. Chalmers-Detroit then merged with Maxwell (yeah, the make of car that was comedian Jack Benny's favorite!) and in 1924, the company became Maxwell-Chalmers--and within a year, The Chrysler Corporation. The first Chrysler had a rather potent flathead inline 6, and was the second company to adopt the then-exotic Lockheed hydraulic brake system, which up to that time had only been used by Duesenberg Inc. Along the way, Walter Chrysler picked up several top-flight engineers, most notably one Fred Zeder, who was the principal engine designer for Chrysler Corporation for the next 30 years. During WW-II, Chrysler designed a super-potent aircraft engine, examples of which were installed in a couple of Republic P-47 Thunderbolts, the XP-47H, as the Chrysler XIV-2220, a V16 liquid-cooled engine, which pioneered the Chrysler Hemispherical cylinder head (design headed up by Fred Zeder).

As soon as peace returned to the US, Zeder and his team began exploring high-output V8 engines, based around the pushrod Hemi head. In late 1947, the first experimental Hemi cylinder head was bolted onto a Chrysler straight 6 flathead block (I have several books with pics of that engine--what a potent six that thing must have been), finally gaining approval from Kaufman Thoma Keller, the president of Chrysler 1935-50 to go to production, which happened in late 1951 for the 1952 model year. Zeder stayed around to head up Hemi development, culminating in the legendary 1955 Chrysler C300.

But, all this started with a guy who quit school after 6 yrs of primary school, but had a knack for learning, a penchant for self-taught, and a personal "drive" not often seen.

Art

[Chuck Most]

What no Plymouth Hemis? I know, I know they didn't get any Hemi's the first time around.

Guys, I think he was joking! Unclench a tad, will ya?

[Sport Suburban]

Guys, I think he was joking! Unclench a tad, will ya?

I was joking, but I did enjoy the history lessons.

[whale392]

Art, you are incorrect on the development of Chryslers' Hemi head. They experimented with it DURING the war, as is testimented to by the Walter p. Chrysler museum having both the tank and aircraft engines IN THEIR CARE. But thanks for the rest of the 'history' lesson.

Ok, now where'd I set my beer at?

[LDO]

Art, you are incorrect on the development of Chryslers' Hemi head. They experimented with it DURING the war, as is testimented to by the Walter p. Chrysler museum having both the tank and aircraft engines IN THEIR CARE. But thanks for the rest of the 'history' lesson.

Ok, now where'd I set my beer at?

Maybe I need to take reading lessons. When Art said "During WWII...", I thought he meant during the war. Jesus Christ, man. Try decaf.

[whale392]

No, Lee, it is I whom need to read. I see where he mentions the Hemi head being prototyped on the aircraft engine. My apologies to all.

And hell no I won't drink decaf, that's like beer without the alcohol...what's the point?

[Guest]

. Jesus Christ, man.

Yes Lee, HE WAS THE MAN!

[John Goschke]

In 1957, Dodge brought out the D-501, which used left over 354cid Hemi's from 1956 Chryslers. Arnie Beswick used one as one of his very first drag stockers.

Art

Wow, never heard of that one! Looks like I gotta do some research....

[Art Anderson]

Vistors to the Hall Of Fame Museum at Indianapolis Motor Speedway can see one of the very earliest "Hemi" engines, in the 1903 Premier race car, built by Premier for competition in the Gordon Bennett Cup (the car was too large and heavy to meet the specs, all attempts at reducing its weight notwithstanding). A Belgian car, the Pipe, featured a hemispherical cylinder head design in 1905.

However, it was more likely that Peugeot, whose team of engineers "Les Charlatans", created the "father" of most all pure racing engines, a DOHC Hemispherical combustion chamber inline 4cyl racing engine, the 1913 Peugeot GP car. One of these cars, with Jules Goux driving, ran away with the 1913 Indianapolis 500 Mile Race, it was this engine that popularized the DOHC Hemispherical combustion chamber in motorsports, most famously in the engines of Harry A Miller (Miller 300, Miller 183, Miller 122 and Miller 91), Fred Offenhauser, Miller's successor (Offenhauser racing engines, from 274cid down to the Offenhauser Midget engine--91-120cid, with a pair of 75cid turbocharged engines built in the middle 1970's), Nearly all DOHC ehgines use hemispherical combustion chambers, for their cross-flow gas movement to this day.

Chrysler's V16 aero engine began development in 1940, but serious problems involving the large and complex aluminum crankcase (Alcoa strruggled to find an aluminum alloy strong enough) delayed this engine until finally, in 1945, it flew successfully in a pair of highly modified P-47 Thunderbolt airframes. Curtiss Airplane Company developed a new fighter during WW-II, the XP-60 to use this engine, rated at 2,700hp, but finally settled on a more conventional Pratt & Whitney Double Wasp, which offered no significant improvement over the widely built P-47. At any rate, the V16 came too late to see service in WW-II, and with the jet age already in full development, work stopped with the end of the war.

Fred Zeder and his team at Chrysler turned their attention to adapting the hemi head to automobile engines, and by 1947, had a running example mounted on a Plymouth flathead inline 6 block. The rest, as they say, is history.

Art

[Longbox55]

Something to add to this, GMC used a hemi head on their 224-270 truck engines from '39-'54, in 2 different configurations, a small port and a large port.

[scale trucker]

lets not forget the all aluminum v8 hemi from toyota in the 60;s

[tim boyd]

Actually, there was a plan for a second gen Hemi under the Chrysler nameplate. It's been well documented that Chrysler was developing a C-body application of the Hemi for use in the Dodge Monaco 500 and Chrysler 300 in the 1966 model year. There were even a few parts prototyped and manufactured (including a C-body exhaust manifold) before the plan was cancelled in early 1965.

According to some accounts, the C-body Hemi was to undergo further development for the 1967 model year including a tri-power (three carb) variant in place of the dual quads and tuning that would have allowed a factory application with air conditioning, and possibly an increase in displacement to 440 cubic inches. The 1966 versions are well documented, the 1967 plans are less documented.

I wrote more about this in an article I did for the other magazine a couple of years ago (including a list of references) along with an accompanying "On Line Extra". TIM

[Nitrozilla]

This has been an incredible history lesson on the Hemi, my most beloved engine and I thank all who participated with genuine facts.

Now that we've got that handled Art, any word from Dave when he might give the okiedokie to post pics of the final test parts that started this in the first place ??

[Luc Janssens]

Just got my set of final test shots on this one--talk about nice? I think it's pretty fantastic! It's a bit late, I know, but better late than wrong, certainly better than never.

Pics will follow as soon as Dave says I can post some up.

Art

Think the time is now, it's already out there......in off white....

[Rob Hall]

Yes....too many history essays in this thread...show pictures of the new kit!

[Luc Janssens]

BTW what engine is this....

[Rob Hall]

Looks like a V8 to me...