Professional painters only

[Jairus]

I have been painting clear slot car bodies for 3 years professionally.

I have been painting Slot Car hard bodies for just a little less.

I have been building and painting model cars for more years than I care to think about, some of them professionally but mostly for myself.

For those of you who paint well... and know what goes into prep, painting, decaling, clearcoating AND rubbing out for a beautiful finish....

What would you charge a customer to paint something like this?

Please post your estimate for the number of hours you think it will take you as well. Thanks!

There are no right answers here, nor are any of you going to get to do this one.... sorry.

[James Tester]

I would charge NO LESS than $100 for the body to be painted, decaled, cleared and polished.

Just my .02.

James

[Modelmartin]

That isn't the easiest paint and decal job out there. I have done that kit for myself and I wouldn't do it for less than $150.00

The dark blue needs to be painted on top of the silver and then you have to cut out the red and light blue stripes and apply them separately. If it was easy, the customer would do it themselves.

[Irvin Arter Jr.]

I usually charge 100.00 for a regular basic paint job with clear coat. Time is based on what your using. Lacquer? Clear coat? say 2-4 hours prep body and body work, 2 hours sanding final primer, 1 hour base paint, 4 hours decals? 1 hour final clear coat, 2 hours to rub out or are decals on top? Plus 2 six-packs for the decals! your not making great money on a decal job like this unless you charge 200.00 to 250.00 most people will not pay that but, it's alot of work unless you like the subject to do for the fun of it. Need more info on what your using and what order

[novadose71]

Is it 25th scale or 32nd? Either way, I would lean more toward $150. I have never built this kit, the decals do look like a chore and with two tone paint..... I couldn't give a time estimate, but it would probably take me twice as long as anyone else:)

[Brendan]

I have built this model, which took about a week to do. (25-35 hours)

If I am building a kit for someone, I usually charge him anywhere between $100 to $300 depending on the amount of detail. But if it's just doing cleaning/painting/decaling the body, it's usually about $100. But if I have to order paint etc., I add that cost to the amount. I consider myself as being on the less expensive side of charging for building a kit.

[Guest rick r]

Talked to Pete Santini, pro painter in Westminster, Ca., he said maybe $25K minimum with the PORSCHE SURCHARGE, but since it's SEMA season, he'd hit you for an extra $5k so he can hire extra people... that's never good. Oh,and he charges $50 for an estimate,so you need to get that in the mail to him when you can. Rick Rothermel

[Jairus]

Jee, thanks Rick...

[jbwelda]

i dont understand the question. does the guy want you to just paint that body a base color and then apply those decals, and clear it?

if thats so then i think its more or less beneath you, jairus. if i were in your position i would make that apparent by charging a lot and then if the guy insists, go to the bank on it. i dont really see why any model builder couldnt just do that themselves, applying and clearing decals isnt that hard in my experience.

by the way i thought i got off with a bargain with the 250$ i paid you for all the hand lettering, even though much of that was a tip. personally i think you sell yourself a bit cheap but i realize that its hard to find customers willing to pay what artwork and paintwork is worth, in 1:25 as in real life.

[jbwelda]

ps: of course if i ever need any more contract work, i will completely disavow ever saying any of that jairus!

[m408]

Sorry, not a pro painter, but this topic begs the question. Why would one have a pro painter paint his, or her, model? Isn't the whole idea about "look what I did", maybe good, maybe O.K., maybe I need help.

Is the next step having one of you super builders do a kit for me? Detail the whole thing, with working doors, wheels off lug bolts, lights, and convertable tops that work, and then saying "look what I did"? For most of us, I think not.

On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being show quality, I'm about a 4. But it is all mine. Bad fits, rattle can paint without a spray booth or de-hydrator. But I did it myself.

[jbwelda]

yeah theres something to what you say milt, but in my case i wanted hand lettering that there is no way i could do or would want to put the time into doing. real artwork in scale. i would suspect the client of the porsche just likes the cars and either doesnt have the time or hasnt really achieved what their minds eye sees in a finished model. so he tries to find someone to do the paint for them. i know and im sure youll agree that paint is perhaps the most difficult part of building, sometimes even deceptively difficult like this decalling job might be

i know i dont and im sure whoever is the current client wouldnt, say that i did something that plainly i had contracted out. if i ever show the model he did for me it will be with a sign or card or something crediting the graphics to the artist.

then theres the part about having jairus paint your model and as he is a regularly published artist, not to mention art director, thats pretty unique right there.

i am with you though, generally we do our own paint most of the time if not all of it.

btw jairus, i and others i know are still in awe of the art work you did, thanks again! that will probably get completed early this fall and i will send or post a pic.

[Howard Cohen]

I have a friend who paints motorcycles and model bodies for a living. His modelling paint starts at $75 plus materials and goes up from there. 2 tones are more expensive as are multiple colours, metalflakes, candies, patterns, fogging, etc. He paints mostly with urethanes but will use other paints on request. The average ends up at about $250. He doesn't do decals. He will only paint an unfinished body that has no primer or colour as the paints don't like to mix in a lot of cases. If there is custom bodywork that has been primered, he will sand off the primer and apply his own so he knows what is on the body. This adds to the price. His motorcycle paint starts at about $500 for a gas tank and he has a waiting list. I have been to his house and seen as many as 6 tanks waiting to be picked up and many more being prepped. His work is very good.

In a related manner...I do Bare Metal Foil work for people. I take a painted, finished body, unassembled with no windows, and apply the BMF to whatever trim is needed. I charge $15 an hour and I will give you an estimate on the number of hours to foil a body. I don't do everything if the molding is bad or if the BMF will make the car look heavy and I sometimes use artistic license. For example...a '57 Chevy in 1/24/5th is about 5 hours work...a '58 Chevy Impala is more...my '63 Corvette original coupe took me about 6 hours. I have also done 1/43rd Brooklin cars, Hot Wheels, etc.

I would suggest making up a flat rate sheet for solid colours, then add in a time factor for other colours or 2 tones or special effects, charging by the hour and adding materials. I have seen custom flame paint work and I believe he charges about $500 for a flame job.

[m408]

yeah theres something to what you say milt, but in my case i wanted hand lettering that there is no way i could do or would want to put the time into doing. real artwork in scale. i would suspect the client of the porsche just likes the cars and either doesnt have the time or hasnt really achieved what their minds eye sees in a finished model. so he tries to find someone to do the paint for them. i know and im sure youll agree that paint is perhaps the most difficult part of building, sometimes even deceptively difficult like this decalling job might be

i know i dont and im sure whoever is the current client wouldnt, say that i did something that plainly i had contracted out. if i ever show the model he did for me it will be with a sign or card or something crediting the graphics to the artist.

then theres the part about having jairus paint your model and as he is a regularly published artist, not to mention art director, thats pretty unique right there.

i am with you though, generally we do our own paint most of the time if not all of it.

btw jairus, i and others i know are still in awe of the art work you did, thanks again! that will probably get completed early this fall and i will send or post a pic.

I totally agree with the credits at shows. My 33 chevy street rod was always shown with a stand up sign listing the builder, painter, interior, etc. The car was in Street Rodder twice and won awards at both national and local shows. I'm sure that the guys who did most of the work appreciated their mention.

[SteveG]

Jairus,

Unless it's a subject matter you build every day where you have it down to a science, I would have to say it would be a time and material job. What's the going labor rate for a professional artist these days? Are you using Hobby grade paint products or Automotive grade. Go into a PPG jobber (my favorite brand) and price out a quart of high grade primer, a pint of color, a urethane clear coat kit, and the necessary thinners and see what the bill comes too.

If I had to ball-park this I'm going to say 8-12 hours for prep, paint and clear and another 4 hours for decals. I would go with at least $200 plus materials.

Unless you feel your evening and weekend hours are only worth minimum wage. Personally I think giving up your free time is worth a lot more than that.

Which brings me to the big question of what's a professional model builder worth? Do I want to turn a hobby, something I usually do for fun into a paying job which is usually not fun. This something I have been debating for several years.

To date, I have refused to sell my work or should I say artwork? All my box art models were only loaned to the "client" with an agreement to be returned undamaged. The only compensation has been sample products and the satisfaction of seeing my work on the shelf in my local hobby shop.

Lately I've been spending way more time working on box art, test shots samples, and trade show display models then I have on my own projects and it's starting to feel a lot like a job. I've already got one of those and it's not that fun. Is it time to ask for another paycheck or should I go back to just building my own projects?

-Steve

Edited October 7, 2007 by SteveG

[MrObsessive]

Which brings me to the big question of what's a professional model builder worth? Do I want to turn a hobby, something I usually do for fun into a paying job which is usually not fun. This something I have been debating for several years.

That's the same way I've been feeling lately Steve. I've recently have had some folks I know wanting me to build something for them. I turned them down simply because I HATE deadlines! Even though they've offered to pay me-------it still comes down to a deadline and then what do I charge?

I have enough deadlines in my own job to deal with and a hobby shouldn't be full of deadlines unless it's hurrying to finish something for a show or whatnot.

The only exception where building a model for someone might not be that big of a deal is building something for eBay where no one's expecting you to have a finished model done at a certain point.

As far as charging someone a price...............I'd say in the $200 range thereabouts + materials. I figure most paint jobs I can finish within a 8-16 hour period including rubbing out and polishing.

Of course maybe more for custom stuff such as two tones or candies!

[Jairus]

Wow Guys, fantastic answers and a lot to think about so I guess I should post a response.

Ok, this is the deal. I have been building slot cars “for hire†for the last year now. The graphics & illustration market has dropped off of late… AMT is no longer asking me for work because they want the office secretaries to pull stupid images off the internet or some such rot… but we won’t go into that right now. Johnny Lightening, who I lived off for 3 years, is pretty much going the Hot Wheels route of a generic blister card. Auto World keeps saying “projects coming soonâ€â€¦.

Revell’s, Ed Sexton went on to other jobs recently… and they also keep saying “projects coming soonâ€!

Accurate Miniatures basically has been mouthing the same words… but THAT has been going on 2 years now!!

I cannot live on “projects coming soonâ€, so I have to either make money in my home studio doing something, ANYTHING or get a full time job working at Wally World! (All the good Graphic Arts offices are in Portland and I am NOT GOING TO COMMUTE!)

So, I have been keeping busy…. VERY BUSY by building vintage slot car replicas and painting Lexan bodies along with writing articles for Model Cars Magazine.

Okay enough background, the Resin Porsche is just one of many projects that a slotter dude sent over to assemble and paint. Even though he talked me down some on my price, I feel that I am still in the ballpark. No, I am not getting rich. Heck I still wait for the “shut-off notice†before paying a bill. But I am not starving, nor will I go away anytime soon. But the builds sent over require only a chassis assemble, mounting, paint/decals and Tamiya clear coat. I DO NOT DO POLISHING! Most of my paint jobs don’t need it as I learned a long time ago how to get very smooth paint! However, the customer has asked me to build up interiors and put in a provided driver figure. Each project is a little different so flat rates do not apply HERE but still a viable business opportunity none the less.

Thanks to all who provided me information and I open up this thread to further discussion on the subject of building models for hire.

P.S. Steve and Bill asked something like: “why make a fun hobby a business?†Because I LOVE it! I really like avoiding the stupid office politics of working in a business. The commute from bed to toilet to coffee pot takes only a few minutes. PLUS I get to listen to the radio as loud as I want with nobody complaining. I have a good work ethic so I can get a LOT done in 8 to 10 hours and I am home when my daughter gets out of school! The only way life can be better would be if….. ah, .. I can’t think of anything so never mind.

[lordairgtar]

Jairus, since I truly love my job in the wiring harness industry, my art tends to be a hobby business, just like my DJ service. I am closely associated with the local car show organizers who let me ply my trade on the show grounds. (I draw cars for the entrants of the show) Although I do not charge a heck of a lot (these are down and dirty drawings that take about an hour to do with colored pencils), you on the other hand are a well known artist who could benefit from hitting the car show circuit selling high-end auto illustrations. I'm talking about shows like NSRA and Goodguys. There vendor fees are a bit more than I care to pay (and why should I when there are so many local events I don't have to pay) Oh, I saw the Toro on slotblog...COOL!!

[FloridaBoy]

We aren't done with you yet, Jarius,

I am a 60 year old modeler who has been building model cars for many many years, even before the '58 line of AMT 3in1 kits. I have been around for the entire cycle of model cars from beginning to right now. First, I think that most of the contributors in this forum are pretty good modelers, and model to a high standard, and inspire others to improve and excel.

But you are the guy. The guy. I used to buy Car Model and Scale Auto magazines if your designs were in them, and buy the mags when your cars were featured. Augie may have been the ultimate model car builder, but you are the ultimate model car designer. I just accumulated a lot of mags and just took some time leafing through them and your work sits high and above other graphic designers. And that is only the quality part, you also have the demented mind to come up with some of your designs, and that is a compliment.

Then comes your modeling. I was sold on your work since the Concept 32. And you are a Salt Lake winner.

You probably do not realize your rep within the industry. I also perceive you are quite the humble type person, but this is a downturn economy and this could be a time to parlay those talents into something lucrative without losing your independence. My close modeling friend, Jeff Selker in Miami, is an airbrushing artist of the highest caliber. He makes a decent living airbrusing art and flames and scallops and designs on vans, pickup trucks, motorcycle tanks, and cars. There is a guy in your area, named Michael something, who works for Foose on Overhaulin' and Rides on Discovery named Killer Paint. He commands the big bucks and you are as good if not better than he.

So this message can be nutshelled two ways. First, a paint job is worth $100, but a Jarius paint job may command more. and Second, to expand those talents into something. I got a lot of airbrushing work by going to auto body shops and motorcylcle shops in the area and leaving a sample of my work and a business card.

That may be an answer.

Good luck, but I wish you even more than that, good hunting and may the wind be to your back and fill your sails.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

[Jairus]

Thank you Ken! You may have a point there about the custom painting... I knew there was a reason I wanted a two car garage!

[TimKustom]

Hey Jairus,

Hope it works out for ya. If things get real bad, get this: http://salem.craigslist.org/rvs/428104045.html and go live down by the river!

Just kidding, but I would like to add that one to our fleet though .

Hope to see ya in Atlanta, and I'd paint that car for $150 to stay on topic...

[FloridaBoy]

Jarius,

We have a mutual friend who founded and owns Model Car Garage, and he parlayed his incredible model building talent and body shop skills into a Salt Lake winning car, then founded the photo etch line, and now he makes a very livable living. And when I see him occasionally, he looks to me like he is having a good time doing what he does.

My family often tells me I am wasting my talent by only doing small jobs, but my talent is pale in comparison. I am telling you that your God given talent pretty much dictates that you shouls leave your legacy on our society. I kept your calendar although the years are long past, because the designs on the month covers adorn my place. I am not a nutty fan, I admire talent.

There are lots of incredibly talented people on this forum, who have already inspired me to depaint, re-do, and repaint my cars because I want to operate within their level of standard quality models. You sort of owe it to us, and this is the time to start. You already are more than halfway there with your design portfolio.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman