Revell's plastic crazing under Duplicolor...anyone else seeing this?

[Exotics_Builder]

Thanks for your input, Chuck. Like you, I find the harder, more brittle ones don't craze.

I'm going to say the problem I've had is in large part my application technique. I spray full wet coats with enough primer to flow out and usually eliminate most sanding. No orange peel=less sanding. The problem is that full wet coats put a lot of solvent directly on the surface, whereas modelers who "mist" their primer allow a lot of the solvents to flash out BEFORE the primer even hits the surface. Though this minimizes crazing, it also makes for "dry-spray" and an increased appearance of orange peel.

Still, the fact remains that the older, harder plastics, don't craze at all with my hot / wet application.

You are certainly very knowledgeable as evidenced by your replies in other posts. Regardless of the reason, the Revell plastic is quite "soft". Just look at how easily it can be sanded. But, I think your assessment of heavy coating technique is likely the culprit.

I admit that I prefer Plastikote and Tamiya primers over duplicolor and have yet to have any problems with them on newer Revell plastic. Have you considered misting two light coats before a heavy coat just as you would base color? That would get some coverage before the heavy coat. Otherwise, as previously mentioned, BIN or Future first may give you the results.

I have only used Duplicolor primer on a couple of Fujimi kits. My technique on all primers is a couple of light coats followed by a heavier coat.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Exotics_Builder

[Ace-Garageguy]

Gerry, thanks for the reminder. I've used Plasticoat in the past with good results, but started shooting Duplicolor when I couldn't readily find Plasticoat. The CarQuest store near me carries Plasticoat now, so I'll give their products a shot and see what happens.

As far as the soft plastic thing goes, I've also had to modify my mockup technique with the current Revell material. My habit of tacking things with a drop of Tenax or a similar hot liquid glue tends to stick the recent Revell plastics together much more permanently, so I've had to switch to less aggressive materials for tacking.

[Brett Barrow]

I recall in 2005, the shop I ran experimented with some waterborne primers. They seemed to take forever to dry, required baking, and were generally a pain in the tail if you were trying to maintain a production schedule.

When I left in 2007, I recall some instant-cure, UV activated primers were hitting the market, and that seemed like it would be a game changer. That was my last experience with the stuff.

The fact that GM's entire fleet of vehicles painted with waterborne stuff around '89 spontaneously self-stripped didn't endear them to a lot of folks.

The waterborne paint now just needs air moved across it. Lots of air. Most shops use high-volume blowers that run off compressed air instead of fans. Doesn't even need to be warm and the paint doesn't need to be baked, though it is a good idea to have a temperature-controlled booth. They do take longer to flash off and dry, but the advantage is that once the water is out, so is all the solvent, you can cut and polish them very soon after drying, usually within 24 hours or so. Plus they cover in fewer coats (less material cost) and leave a thinner paint film (less chance of stuff not fitting right during reassembly).

My dad had an '88 IROC Camaro that the paint failed on around '92. GM reimbursed him for a good chunk of the cost of a new paint job (which my dad did himself in the family paint booth at granddad's shop) He ended up turning a profit!

Edited May 6, 2013 by Brett Barrow

[Exotics_Builder]

Gerry, thanks for the reminder. I've used Plasticoat in the past with good results, but started shooting Duplicolor when I couldn't readily find Plasticoat. The CarQuest store near me carries Plasticoat now, so I'll give their products a shot and see what happens.

As far as the soft plastic thing goes, I've also had to modify my mockup technique with the current Revell material. My habit of tacking things with a drop of Tenax or a similar hot liquid glue tends to stick the recent Revell plastics together much more permanently, so I've had to switch to less aggressive materials for tacking.

I've resorted to white glue and Tamiya tape (rice paper). But I understand your dilemma

[Quick GMC]

Not relevant, but if this bothers you, be glad you don't live in CA. The shops are using water soluble paint, not by choice. There was even talk of banning black paint on new cars a couple years back, because "they absorb too much heat, requiring you to run your A/C more, resulting in more carbon emissions". The people in charge should be riding the short bus.

The allowance on chemical container sizes varies from county to county in Southern Ca, with San Diego basically dictating the entire country. You can'r buy certain chemicals in liters anymore, but they're okay in quarts. Can't buy them in gallons, but 4 quart is fine. I think I'm dumber now after just typing this out.

[Guest G Holding]

The waterborne paint now just needs air moved across it. Lots of air. Most shops use high-volume blowers that run off compressed air instead of fans. Doesn't even need to be warm and the paint doesn't need to be baked, though it is a good idea to have a temperature-controlled booth. They do take longer to flash off and dry, but the advantage is that once the water is out, so is all the solvent, you can cut and polish them very soon after drying, usually within 24 hours or so. Plus they cover in fewer coats (less material cost) and leave a thinner paint film (less chance of stuff not fitting right during reassembly).

We started playing with Auto Air when a supplier gave my buddy a couple of cases of product to play with...He didn't like the switch, I got a bunch and have had great luck with it. I have never seen a WB primer that doesn't start cussing in seconds, and I tried the "UV"activated spot putty........Glad it was free, as it is junk . I have hopes, BMW and most mfgrs are now WB paint, due to the VOC issue in mfging and the EPA.

Bill I think you should go to a couple of mist coats, then one wet one, let it shrink and sand it with 600 perfect. I have always done it this way, as I also paint that way.Many mist coats just work better for me, although I do like a good wet coat of TS13 as my last coat....Alas, I used my last can 2 builds back, I am starting to get a bit shaky now....

[Ace-Garageguy]

Not relevant, but if this bothers you, be glad you don't live in CA. The shops are using water soluble paint, not by choice. There was even talk of banning black paint on new cars a couple years back, because "they absorb too much heat, requiring you to run your A/C more, resulting in more carbon emissions". The people in charge should be riding the short bus.

The allowance on chemical container sizes varies from county to county in Southern Ca, with San Diego basically dictating the entire country. You can'r buy certain chemicals in liters anymore, but they're okay in quarts. Can't buy them in gallons, but 4 quart is fine. I think I'm dumber now after just typing this out.

Doesn't it just make you happy to know the folks writing the rules don't really have a clue about anything? It's just wonderful they've found gainful employment in the government. Oops, that's dangerously close to politics. I should be ashamed of myself.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Bill I think you should go to a couple of mist coats, then one wet one, let it shrink and sand it with 600 perfect. I have always done it this way, as I also paint that way.Many mist coats just work better for me, although I do like a good wet coat of TS13 as my last coat....Alas, I used my last can 2 builds back, I am starting to get a bit shaky now....

I backed off from full-wet coats to medium-wet coats, and after it flashes, it looks pretty good. Not as slick as I'm happy with, but okay as long as there's not any REALLY fine detail to get filled.

[Tom Geiger]

I honestly didn't open this thread to whine and dump on Revell, but rather to find out if this was a somewhat common problem with later model Revell kits. The VAST majority of kits on my shelves are vintage, and crazing is a non-issue.

Bill, considering your original thread title was "Revell's TRASH plastic" I think that is what upset people here, that's pretty much dumping on Revell in my book. I know my first post was because I took offense. I see you've changed the title since.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Bill, considering your original thread title was "Revell's TRASH plastic" I think that is what upset people here, that's pretty much dumping on Revell in my book. I know my first post was because I took offense. I see you've changed the title since.

You're right. I was ticked off and frustrated and shot off before thinking through what I should have said. My apologies. I actually like Revell most of the time, but I DO think the plastic in question is inferior to earlier stuff.

[martinfan5]

You're right. I was ticked off and frustrated and shot off before thinking through what I should have said. My apologies. I actually like Revell most of the time, but I DO think the plastic in question is inferior to earlier stuff.

To be fair, its just not Revell either, one of the reason's I switch to Tamiya was that all new Japanese kits are the same way to , the craze/etch very easy if you use hot primer , I dont like getting less for more , I would much rather buy Dupli/Plastikot primers.

[Ace-Garageguy]

To be fair, its just not Revell either, one of the reason's I switch to Tamiya was that all new Japanese kits are the same way to , the craze/etch very easy if you use hot primer , I dont like getting less for more , I would much rather buy Dupli/Plastikot primers.

While we're being fair, I pulled some kits from other manufacturers off the shelves today and found several that have the very soft look of the one I've been whining about. And interestingly, the snappers seem to be made of the hardest, best material.

[martinfan5]

While we're being fair, I pulled some kits from other manufacturers off the shelves today and found several that have the very soft look of the one I've been whining about. And interestingly, the snappers seem to be made of the hardest, best material.

I have to noticed that about snapper kits as well, kind of odd, but I am sure there is a reason behind it, I guess I dont know this, but what is it to look for to see if its soft plastic?

[Modelbuilder Mark]

While we're being fair, I pulled some kits from other manufacturers off the shelves today and found several that have the very soft look of the one I've been whining about. And interestingly, the snappers seem to be made of the hardest, best material.

I used to use Veriprime two part primer by Dupont, but had to buy it in bulk, it had a shelf life, was not not cheap etc etc, but you did get a good barrier.

BUT!...in the last couple years, I started using Tamiya as well. It is not cheap, but a can will do several kits. I use both their filler/surfacer, and they smooth primer for the final prime. I have not had any issues yet, BUT....I too do mist coats.

[charlie8575]

Not relevant, but if this bothers you, be glad you don't live in CA. The shops are using water soluble paint, not by choice. There was even talk of banning black paint on new cars a couple years back, because "they absorb too much heat, requiring you to run your A/C more, resulting in more carbon emissions". The people in charge should be riding the short bus.

The allowance on chemical container sizes varies from county to county in Southern Ca, with San Diego basically dictating the entire country. You can'r buy certain chemicals in liters anymore, but they're okay in quarts. Can't buy them in gallons, but 4 quart is fine. I think I'm dumber now after just typing this out.

Given the number of mentall/reasoning-capacity deficient who fancy themselves in charge (and sadly, in many cases, are in fact in charge), the short bus is going to have to be the length of a city block.

Charlie Larkin

[charlie8575]

I have to noticed that about snapper kits as well, kind of odd, but I am sure there is a reason behind it, I guess I dont know this, but what is it to look for to see if its soft plastic?

My guess...it IS the better stuff and more durable, and figuring most snap-kits are probably going to get played with at least a little, they need something that'll hold up.

Charlie Larkin

[Modelbuilder Mark]

My guess...it IS the better stuff and more durable, and figuring most snap-kits are probably going to get played with at least a little, they need something that'll hold up.

Charlie Larkin

That is what I was thinking. Different target market

[zenrat]

FWIW I think China is on it's way out as the cheapest manufacturing centre of choice (when I was a kid it was Japan, then Hong Kong).

A lot of the real nasty cheap BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH we get in the (Aussie)$ shops these days is made in Indonesia and Bangladeshi labour is apparently even cheaper.

However, I think that the future is East Africa. Build your manufacturing plant in, say, Liberia ignoring any 1st world WH&S requirements and ship in your workforce from any of the conveniently located refugee camps in the region.

Shipping to the US will be cheaper as the Atlantic is narrower than the Pacific and funding can easilly be raised from the US by playing on white mans guilt over the slave trade (or by fooling African Americans into believing that they are helping their "people" by exploiting them).

[Tom Geiger]

and I don't think anything is different today. I recently pulled the MPC '67 Corvette "Streaker" kit done in 1972 from my stash to build the rusty Corvette. The plastic was this milky opaque soft stuff with a lot of flash on the parts and trees. I also noticed that it heated up from friction easy as it was clogging up the drill bits with melted plastic as I used my small battery power drill.