What Irked You Today?

[Ace-Garageguy]

Not in the case of Tesla. They receive no government funding or special favors... do they?

Well, it depends on your definition of "is", kinda.

It's important to remember that Elon Musk, Mr. Tesla, made most of his money as Mr. PayPal. He saw a ripe opportunity and realized the world was changing so he might as well make a little profit on it.

BUT, unlike many super rich smart guys, he's the driving force behind making sweeping changes in how the world works. Besides starting a world-class car company from scratch and turning out beautiful cars that function, he's:

1) establishing a nationwide network of fast-charging stations for electric vehicles;

2) the major force behind the establishment of a US battery-manufacturing plant (AND a solar-panel manufacturing plant spin-off of SolarCity) that will ultimately produce thousands of jobs and help to return manufacturing to this country;

3) heavily involved in developing a reusable, relatively cheap PRIVATE space-launch vehicle.

Far as where the government funding help may be coming into the picture, this from Tesla's website:

TESLA REPAYS DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY LOAN NINE YEARS EARLY

ONLY AMERICAN CAR COMPANY TO HAVE PAID BACK GOVERNMENT

WEDNESDAY, MAY 22, 2013

PALO ALTO, Calif.-- Tesla Motors announced that it has paid off the entire loan awarded to the company by the Department of Energy in 2010. In addition to payments made in 2012 and Q1 2013, today’s wire of almost half a billion dollars ($451.8M) repays the full loan facility with interest. Following this payment, Tesla will be the only American car company to have fully repaid the government.

For the first seven years since its founding in 2003, Tesla was funded entirely with private funds, led by Elon Musk. Tesla brought its Roadster sports car to market with a 30% gross margin, designed electric powertrains for Daimler (Mercedes) and had done preliminary design of the Model S all before receiving a government loan.

In 2010, Tesla was awarded a milestone-based loan, requiring matching private capital obtained via public offering, by the DOE as part of the Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing program. This program was signed into law by President Bush in 2008 and then awarded under the Obama administration in the years that followed. This program is often confused with the financial bailouts provided to the then bankrupt GM and Chrysler, who were ineligible for the ATVM program, because a requirement of that program was good financial health.

The loan payment was made today using a portion of the approximately $1 billion in funds raised in last week’s concurrent offerings of common stock and convertible senior notes. Elon Musk, Tesla’s Chief Executive Officer and cofounder, purchased $100 million of common equity, the least secure portion of the offering. “I would like to thank the Department of Energy and the members of Congress and their staffs that worked hard to create the ATVM program, and particularly the American taxpayer from whom these funds originate,” said Elon Musk. “I hope we did you proud.”

Then there's this from Cal Watchdog.com:

"Tesla just paid back its government loan nine years early. But the Wall Street Journal had this to say:

The decade-old Tesla debuted its first product, the Roadster, in 2006. With a base price of $109,000, it was discontinued before it hit 2,500 sales. Tesla introduced its Model S a year ago and had sold an estimated 9,650 at a bargain $70,000 through April. By contrast, Ford sold 168,843 F-series pickup trucks in the first quarter alone.

Tesla wouldn’t have sold even that many cars without the extraordinary help of government. In 2009 the company received a $465 million Obama loan guarantee, supplemented last year by a $10 million grant from the California Energy Commission.

That money has underwritten Tesla’s engineering and manufacturing, but federal and state governments also subsidize the purchase of Tesla products. Any U.S. buyer of a Tesla car qualifies for a $7,500 federal tax credit, while states like Colorado throw in up to $6,000 more in state income-tax credits. Taxpayers pay first so Tesla can build the cars and again to help the wealthy buy them.

These subsidies are important enough to Tesla that its website features an “Incentives” section directing buyers where to look for their states’ electric-vehicle benefits—rebates, free parking, exemptions from state sales tax, use of high-occupancy lanes, and the like. Buyers from states that offer no incentives get this Tesla message: “Want to help make EV [electric vehicle] incentives a reality in your area? Encourage your local or state representative by calling or sending them a letter.”

Tesla’s biggest windfall has been the cash payments it extracts from rival car makers (and their customers), via its sale of zero-emission credits. A number of states including California require that traditional car makers reach certain production quotas of zero-emission vehicles—or to purchase credits if they cannot. Tesla is a main supplier.

A Morgan Stanley MS +0.41% report in April said Tesla made $40.5 million on credits in 2012, and that it could collect $250 million in 2013. Tesla acknowledged in a recent SEC filing that emissions credit sales hit $85 million in 2013′s first quarter alone—15% of its revenue, and the only reason it made a profit.

Take away the credits and Tesla lost $53 million in the first quarter, or $10,000 per car sold. California’s zero-emission credits provided $67.9 million to the company in the first quarter, and the combination of that state’s credits and federal and local incentives can add up to $45,000 per Tesla sold, according to an analysis by the Los Angeles Times."

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Do your homework, and YOU be the judge of whether Tesla is a worthwhile enterprise or not. Personally, I'm for massive changes and a little future-think. The stuff Musk is doing COULD HAVE BEEN DONE DECADES AGO, but nobody cared enough to bother.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Danno]

Exactly. Some people get so bent when the 'other mag' is mentioned.

What's so hard to understand? The 'other mag' doesn't pay for this forum. Neither do you.

The man who pays for this forum doesn't like paying for knuckleheads to promote the 'other mag' on his forum.

He who pays for it should get a little respect; at least on his own forum.

[Harry P.]

What's so hard to understand? The 'other mag' doesn't pay for this forum. Neither do you.

The man who pays for this forum doesn't like paying for knuckleheads to promote the 'other mag' on his forum.

He who pays for it should get a little respect; at least on his own forum.

Precisely.

Why do some not understand that?

[Harry P.]

Bill, thanks for that post. I didn't realize how cozy Tesla is with the feds.

But even so, I admire Elon Musk. The guy has it going on upstairs. We could use a lot more forward-thinking types like him.

[Harry P.]

What's so hard to understand? The 'other mag' doesn't pay for this forum. Neither do you.

The man who pays for this forum doesn't like paying for knuckleheads to promote the 'other mag' on his forum.

He who pays for it should get a little respect; at least on his own forum.

Just in case my restaurant analogy didn't work for some of you, here's another one.

Let's say a guy named Gregg invites you to a party at his house. And you go to the party. You show up, you drink the drinks he provided, you eat the food he provided, you listen to the music he provided... all of which this guy named Gregg payed for and you didn't. You're a guest in Gregg's house, courtesy of Gregg, and you're taking full advantage of Gregg's hospitality, all of which he provided to you at his own expense and trouble.

And you go around telling all of Gregg's other guests about the great party down the street, while you're a guest at Gregg's party.

It's just bad form.

Get it now?

[High octane]

Newspapers, yes I still enjoy reading the daily newspaper along with my coffee in the morning, as there is more to life than a screen.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Newspapers, yes I still enjoy reading the daily newspaper along with my coffee in the morning, as there is more to life than a screen.

Sunday paper is fine with coffee and a big ol' jelly donut. Monday i'll use it to mop up grease in the garage, as free masking paper, or to line the cat-box. Handy product.

[jbwelda]

there was a time, back when this place was a lot more friendly and a lot more open to ideas that didn't get conceived before I was born, when I believe this Gregg fellow HIMSELF said how this isn't a competition and everyone is friends and the high road was going to be taken by this rag vis a vis "the other". I guess that all went out the door what with homeland security and all that huh? its a new low in my book and I don't mind saying so. I prefer to think we are all united in modeling and what they do "over there" should not affect what is done "over here". it is yet another sad day my friends and I think I hear a clock ticking away somewhere.

jb

[Guest]

I tend to agree with jb here for the most part. And Gregg himself rarely shows up here but to chew someone out.

[southpier]

is the dress casual?

[Ace-Garageguy]

is the dress casual?

If you want to wear a dress (and there's nothing wrong with that)...

[JunkPile]

[Tom Geiger]

I believe this Gregg fellow HIMSELF said how this isn't a competition and everyone is friends and the high road was going to be taken by this rag vis a vis "the other".

Ya know, I'm not gonna mention the other magazine here, 'cause i do get it, but I'd like to think that there isn't a big competition. I get both magazines and each has it's own flavor.

Same with the kit manufacturers. I know the main characters and they speak highly of one another.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[charlie8575]

Newspapers?? Someone still gets a hard copy of the newspaper?

I used to until I lost my major sources of income. If I had still had the extra to spare a month, I still would. To me, reading the paper in the morning in one of the simple pleasures in life.

Charlie Larkin

[Rob Hall]

Haven't had a print newspaper sub in about 15 years...but I do read the news from various sources every day, whether on my phone, tablet or laptop...

[slusher]

What's so hard to understand? The 'other mag' doesn't pay for this forum. Neither do you.

The man who pays for this forum doesn't like paying for knuckleheads to promote the 'other mag' on his forum.

He who pays for it should get a little respect; at least on his own forum.

Precisely.

Why do some not understand that?

I thing Greg deserves the respect of not talking about the other mag. He may not be posting but im sure he is reading things of his interest. We have a great forum.. Respect for the man who puts it up should be easily done..

[Danno]

Amen.

If nothing else, if you're gonna eat the free food at the soup kitchen, don't tell everybody the soup kitchen across town gives out different food. If you don't have enough respect for the soup kitchen to be respectful about it, buy your own food!

[southpier]

isn't variety the spice of life?

maybe breakfast at one, dinner at the other.

[Ace-Garageguy]

maybe breakfast at one, dinner at the other.

So I guess there really is no-free-lunch?

[southpier]

TRaK café, my brother.

no paperwork involved, either.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Used to be able to listen to Miles, Chet Baker, Coltrane, Mingus, etc. on youboob, all albums all the way through. Now every few minutes there's some hysterical blang blang screaming fool or some pre-pubescent twerp nutless marketing moron trying to sell something or other. Yeah, you can "skip ad", but the computer's across the room and the intrusion of the 5-second intro spoils the mood entirely.

I guess that's ruined. Have to start buying music again.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[martinfan5]

Used to be able to listen to Miles, Chet Baker, Coltrane, Mingus, etc. on youboob, all albums all the way through. Now every few minutes there's some hysterical blang blang marketing screaming fool trying to sell me something or other. Yeah, you can "skip ad", but the computer's across the room and the intrusion of the 5-second intro spoils the mood entirely.

I guess that's ruined. Have to start buying music again.

I know, how dare someone put ads up so you can listen to music for free.

In all seriousness, online ads have gotten out of hand almost, I have pretty much given up on watching video clips , for that very reason, and Youtube is worse, its nothing more then people begging for "likes" and begging for you to subscribe to them.

Edited September 1, 2014 by martinfan5

[Austin T]

Used to be able to listen to Miles, Chet Baker, Coltrane, Mingus, etc. on youboob, all albums all the way through. Now every few minutes there's some hysterical blang blang screaming fool or some pre-pubescent twerp nutless marketing moron trying to sell something or other. Yeah, you can "skip ad", but the computer's across the room and the intrusion of the 5-second intro spoils the mood entirely.

I guess that's ruined. Have to start buying music again.

Just use a YouTube mp3 site and save the albums on your computer,when you want to listen to them no ads! Not necessarily promoting this but it's an option.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I know, how dare someone put ads up so you can listen to music for free.

Don't you mean so I CAN'T listen to music for free?

By the way, I've got well over $20k of paid-for music, so I'm not exactly making a habit of trying to get something for nothing.

It just used to be nice to be able to listen to stuff there's virtually NO market for without having to buy it all over again (I lost most of my jazz and classical stuff in a burglary many years ago, and I'm sure the mouth-breathing thieves dumpstered most of it)

Edited September 1, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

Just use a YouTube mp3 site and save the albums on your computer,when you want to listen to them no ads! Not necessarily promoting this but it's an option.

Thanks Austin. I didn't know that.