What Irked You Today?

[Tom Geiger]

What is irking me this cloudy morning? That song "Happy". I hate it. It's everywhere. It gets stuck in your head. And when you manage to shake it, you hear it again somewhere! Argh!

[mikemodeler]

We had another instance . . . a local builder of, say Skill Level 2 capabilities, entered a dozen or so models. One was sporting a Skill Level 4 or 5 paint job of a particular style. Even models the entrant built after this one had sandpapery dull paint and serious Olympic-size orange peel. But that one model . . . world-class killer paint job. Another entrant had a couple of models with similar finishes ~ world class, killer, same colors, same style graphics and techniques. He was a talented 1:1 car painter as well. We asked Skill 2 Guy how he accomplished the special effects of his paint job on that one model. But he couldn't tell us the technique employed. We asked the painter . . . and he admitted Skill 2 Guy paid him to paint the body of that one model. Skill 2 Guy also had a streak of dismal failures in the podium-finish department after that. He quit buying paint jobs.

Danno,

Question for you- what if he had stated on his entry form that the model was painted by "skill level 4 guy" ?

I guess what I am getting at is that some of us have friends who are better at painting and just like in the 1:1 world of cars, some things are better left to professionals if you want professional results.

I am not advocating cheating, but in the interest of full disclosure, if someone were to state that Danno had painted the body but final assembly was done by the owner, does that constitute cheating?

I am not a contest entrant but I have seen some models at shows in the Junior category that were obviously painted by a father or older brother and yet they walk away with awards.

[jrherald420]

Entering it under a full disclosure is fine. Its then judged buy what the modeler has indeed done themself. Junior judging is kinda different as your wanting to draw more into showing and the hobby. Personally i will give 1st to the kid that has done everything themself and MAYBE a 2nd or 3rd to the one that has the flawless painted and polished body. Its easy to spot them and easy to spot when Dad has helped out more than they said and if confronted by said Dad its easy to explain why the judging went as it did. Most of the time they understand and correct the "issue" for the next show.

[High octane]

I've entered and also help judge many contests over the years. It is not right to enter a model if YOU didn't build it all. If you display a model, that is not all your work, it should be noted.

[jrherald420]

Around here if you enter a model under full disclosure(IE-did not build it 100%) you are basicly displaying it and MIGHT get an honerable mention.

Edited April 7, 2014 by jrherald420

[mikemodeler]

I've entered and also help judge many contests over the years. It is not right to enter a model if YOU didn't build it all. If you display a model, that is not all your work, it should be noted.

Devil's advocate here Nick- how come we expect a model builder to do all of the work themselves but have no problem letting someone with deep pockets commission a 1:1 build and give them awards?

Are you saying that unless you have done all the work you can only display the model?

[High octane]

Yes Mike, if you've not done all the work on a model, you should not be able to enter it in the contest. Devil's advocated? I think not as there is a BIG difference between model cars and 1:1 cars. When a 1:1 car is commissioned to be built say for the Ridler Award, we're talkin' THOUSANDS of dollars. Model cars is first and foremost, only a hobby.

[cobraman]

My irk today is people who do not pick up after their dogs. I walk every morning and where I live there a lot of paths and trails plus greenbelt areas. Almost not a day goes by that I don't see someone walking their dog and letting them take a dump in the greenbelt area and then just calmly stroll away.

[mikemodeler]

Yes Mike, if you've not done all the work on a model, you should not be able to enter it in the contest. Devil's advocated? I think not as there is a BIG difference between model cars and 1:1 cars. When a 1:1 car is commissioned to be built say for the Ridler Award, we're talkin' THOUSANDS of dollars. Model cars is first and foremost, only a hobby.

Nick- not nitpicking here, it's just that I am not 100% on board with your reasoning.

For example, there is a gas station nearby that has a monthly show and hands out awards for vehicles based on attendees votes. Now let's say I have a 69 Camaro that I have worked hard on but did all the work myself, including the paint that has some orange peel and some waviness to the body work but otherwise decently detailed to the best of my ability. I am proud of my work but realize I won't take top awards. My next door neighbor hits the lottery and goes to Barrett-Jackson and buys a professionally restored 69 Camaro and comes to the same show. My car gets picked apart and his gets all the praise and yet all he does is wax the car. He gets an award and I get the participation dash plaque.

Now he decides he wants to go to model shows with me and like the 1:1 example above, he finds someone who can build models in a show winning style while I continue to have some trouble getting a nice paint job. We both enter and of course his car wins and mine doesn't. He didn't disclose that he bought his car, much like in the scenario above, and goes home with another award.

The bottom line is that the 1:1 and model were both done as a hobby and as such should be held to the same rules but they aren't.

For the same reason I might outbid you for a kit on eBay ( I have the finances to do so) is why I have a better model or 1:1 to display at a show.

[Danno]

Danno,

Question for you- what if he had stated on his entry form that the model was painted by "skill level 4 guy" ?

I guess what I am getting at is that some of us have friends who are better at painting and just like in the 1:1 world of cars, some things are better left to professionals if you want professional results.

I am not advocating cheating, but in the interest of full disclosure, if someone were to state that Danno had painted the body but final assembly was done by the owner, does that constitute cheating?

I am not a contest entrant but I have seen some models at shows in the Junior category that were obviously painted by a father or older brother and yet they walk away with awards.

Perhaps I should have added that in those contests and shows a cardinal rule is/was that ALL work must be that of the entrant. Buying a builtup, buying a paintjob, or getting somebody else to paint and/or assemble a model is an immediate disqualification. The contests are intended to promote competition among hobbyists, not professionals or the Danbury Mint. (We also do not allow unaltered die-casts.)

The only contests I've ever entered, and ALL the contests I'm involved in presenting, require every entry to be the sole work of the entrant. So shared builds, 'bought' paint jobs, purchased models are prohibited. I don't know of any that allow an entrant to buy an entry or any substantial portion thereof.

Each of the contests state the cardinal rule clearly, and each entrant understands that disqualification is the penalty for violating the rule.

In the example cited, where the Skill 2 Guy enters a model and declares it was painted by someone else, the model would not be permitted to compete. It could be displayed, but would not be judged. If Skill 2 Guy does not declare/admit it was painted by ProSprayer Guy, it would be disqualified upon discovery.

The idea of buying a build by a model seller ~ or buying a paint job from a professional painter ~ and then entering it as one's own work is cheating, plainly and simply put.

[Danno]

Nick- not nitpicking here, it's just that I am not 100% on board with your reasoning.

For example, there is a gas station nearby that has a monthly show and hands out awards for vehicles based on attendees votes. Now let's say I have a 69 Camaro that I have worked hard on but did all the work myself, including the paint that has some orange peel and some waviness to the body work but otherwise decently detailed to the best of my ability. I am proud of my work but realize I won't take top awards. My next door neighbor hits the lottery and goes to Barrett-Jackson and buys a professionally restored 69 Camaro and comes to the same show. My car gets picked apart and his gets all the praise and yet all he does is wax the car. He gets an award and I get the participation dash plaque.

Now he decides he wants to go to model shows with me and like the 1:1 example above, he finds someone who can build models in a show winning style while I continue to have some trouble getting a nice paint job. We both enter and of course his car wins and mine doesn't. He didn't disclose that he bought his car, much like in the scenario above, and goes home with another award.

The bottom line is that the 1:1 and model were both done as a hobby and as such should be held to the same rules but they aren't.

For the same reason I might outbid you for a kit on eBay ( I have the finances to do so) is why I have a better model or 1:1 to display at a show.

Our MODEL car contests showcase and evaluate and reward personal building skills, not financial ability.

We don't run any 1:1 car contests, so what they do is no more relevant to our events than our rules are to theirs.

[High octane]

Model car contests and 1:1 car shows are TWO different ballgames entirely.

[Greg Myers]

Nick- not nitpicking here, it's just that I am not 100% on board with your reasoning.

For example, there is a gas station nearby that has a monthly show and hands out awards for vehicles based on attendees votes. Now let's say I have a 69 Camaro that I have worked hard on but did all the work myself, including the paint that has some orange peel and some waviness to the body work but otherwise decently detailed to the best of my ability. I am proud of my work but realize I won't take top awards. My next door neighbor hits the lottery and goes to Barrett-Jackson and buys a professionally restored 69 Camaro and comes to the same show. My car gets picked apart and his gets all the praise and yet all he does is wax the car. He gets an award and I get the participation dash plaque.

Now he decides he wants to go to model shows with me and like the 1:1 example above, he finds someone who can build models in a show winning style while I continue to have some trouble getting a nice paint job. We both enter and of course his car wins and mine doesn't. He didn't disclose that he bought his car, much like in the scenario above, and goes home with another award.

The bottom line is that the 1:1 and model were both done as a hobby and as such should be held to the same rules but they aren't.

For the same reason I might outbid you for a kit on eBay ( I have the finances to do so) is why I have a better model or 1:1 to display at a show.

So the winner of the AMBR should go to the entrant that tried the hardest ?

[Harry P.]

Model car contests and 1:1 car shows are TWO different ballgames entirely.

And building a real show car and a model car are also two completely different things.

It's very rare that one single person has all the skills needed to build a car. He/she would have to be an engineer, a welder, an upholsterer, a painter, and on and on. Obviously there are very few, if any, real show cars competing for awards that are completely built from top to bottom by one person. The assumption is that the car is the result of a team effort. The Ridler award and similar types of things are a judgement of the result of the collaboration of everyone who was involved in building the car... not so much the talent or skill of the individuals involved, but the finished product itself.

A model car contest is a completely different thing. The builder's skill is being judged, at least as much as the finished model. It's assumed that one person with reasonable skills can build a model car, and that idea–one model, one builder–is what every model car contest is based on. Submitting a model that you had help on is cheating, plain and simple.

[Greg Myers]

and yet, back in the day they did just that.

It's very rare that one single person has all the skills needed to build a car

[mikemodeler]

Thanks for the replies and for the record, I agree with what has been posted.

Yes, in the real world it is acceptable that one may or may not possess the necessary skills to build a car from top to bottom, although I think it is admirable if one can do the majority of the work on a car.

Another question- is it worth considering a category at a show where one could enter a model that was professionally painted and otherwise assembled by the entrant? Obviously they wouldn't be in the running for best paint but is it plausible that they could win an award based on overall build?

[High octane]

mikemodeler, if you ever ran a contest or were one of the judges, you would see that a model car contest is already a pain, and adding a class like you've described would only cause trouble down the line. Trust me.

[Danno]

Thanks for the replies and for the record, I agree with what has been posted.

Yes, in the real world it is acceptable that one may or may not possess the necessary skills to build a car from top to bottom, although I think it is admirable if one can do the majority of the work on a car.

Another question- is it worth considering a category at a show where one could enter a model that was professionally painted and otherwise assembled by the entrant? Obviously they wouldn't be in the running for best paint but is it plausible that they could win an award based on overall build?

Why? What's the point of that?

It's like a . . . . . measuring contest: so what? Just bring your bank statements and put them on the table for everyone to examine in order to determine who can buy the most.

It's like the old saying, 'He who dies with the most toys wins.' Who wants to win . . . or even be in the running . . . for that one?

mikemodeler, if you ever ran a contest or were one of the judges, you would see that a model car contest is already a pain, and adding a class like you've described would only cause trouble down the line. Trust me.

Boy, Howdy! Ain't that the truth!!!

[Ace-Garageguy]

I recall when I was a wee boy, some of the other kiddies would bring in work that they'd OBVIOUSLY had big-person help on. For credit. And sometimes the parent's work would get the top grades. Kinda same thing.

and yet, back in the day they did just that.

Some of us still do...except sewing the upholstery.

[David G.]

OK, Danno, (and any one else who cares to comment) here's a question.

My 1966 Batmobile snap kit came from the manufacturer with the body pre-painted.

Among other things, I detail painted the chassis, foiled the chrome bits, made custom rocket tubes for the rear deck. and put it all together.

Is it eligible for entry in the DSC or any other show?

Edit:

Here's a picture.

David G.

Edited April 8, 2014 by David G.

[High octane]

David, I did the same thing to the Batmoblie kit a coupe of years ago, and it was FUN as well as it looks great in my display case.

[David G.]

David, I did the same thing to the Batmoblie kit a coupe of years ago, and it was FUN as well as it looks great in my display case.

The factory paint is very well done. Probably better than I could do.

David G.

[Danno]

David,

Strictly speaking, our event (and I can only speak for our event and a couple of others I am involved in administering) does not have a 'no prefinished models' rule. However, the 'sole work of the entrant' rule could be applied.

It hasn't been a big problem so far, because most of the pre-finished models of the past didn't have finishes that would compete with the upper echelon of entries in our classes. However, the quality of the Batmobile finish brings the question to a new level. We may have to consider a 'no prefinished models' rule if it becomes a problem.

We've also not prohibited unpainted models. Every once in awhile an entry appears that was nothing more than polished bare plastic. Whether that entry is at a disadvantage depends on how well it's polished, I suppose. But in any case, it would have to be incredible to overcome the nicest painted finish.

However, our judges are very good at spotting pre-finished bodies and when they do, they judge everything except the pre-painted finish. That creates a problem for the entrant: If the judges deem the body pre-painted, they may assume the detail work is prefinished, too. Thus, the model may be judged as if it were naked plastic: no additional work by the builder other than assembly.

At DSC, when someone enters an unpainted model, or a pre-finished model, I've always felt it was best to let the entrant take his/her chances against typically excellent painted finishes. For example, do the people in the factory in Hong Kong do assembly line finishes well enough to compete with the likes of John Teresi or John Pattison or Tim Pentecost or Chris Sobak or Mark D. Jones or . . . ad nauseam . . . ? You get the idea.

So, I guess the best thing to say is, if someone wants to go outside the mainstream, they take their chances. Unless it is the work of someone else (back to the bought-paint-job discussion). Then it's clearly going to be disqualified.

There's another interesting perspective along this line. I once saw a builder enter a '58 Edsel in a contest. It derived from the regular glue kit and he painted it authentic factory colors in an authentic scheme. And it was a nice finish! But he couldn't understand why the judges didn't rate it higher in the class. I suggested he should have picked a color scheme other than the same red-white-black scheme that the pre-finished kits wore! Nobody believed he actually painted it; it looked just like all the pre-finished Edsel kits that were on the market at the time.

But then . . . don't get me started on the topic of entering pre-finished Edsels in contests . . . it gets ugly.

[David G.]

Danno,

Soooo... yes and no?

Even if I did enter it, it wouldn't be without a full disclosure. I wouldn't attempt to take credit for any one else's work. Even if that someone else was a computer operated spray rig.

But as you said, an interesting question, which is why I posed it. Thanks for taking the time to answer.

I have a few other possible entries, I've not quite decided.

Thanks,

David G.

[tuffone20]

Same thing has irked me today, that has been irking for the past 4 months

So no updates on when your going to get that resin body back so you can build it for yourself?