Can The Lincoln MKC Revive A Once-Proud Luxury Brand?

[Rob Hall]

What Lincoln needs to do is drop the alphabet soup names. I know they're "trendy" and very "European," but heck, this is the good old US of A, fer pete's sake!

Come out with a flagship car (maybe using the current Taurus platform to keep costs down, maybe go crazy and go all new). Give it unique, even striking styling that stands out from the crowd (like Lincolns used to do). Call it a "Continental," price it realistically, and sit back and count the money.

The current MKS is on the Taurus platform, it's not doing well. The problem is, other than the Mustang, Ford doesn't have a RWD car platform (the Aussie Falcon is on it's way out)...unless they use it or develop something new, it's going to be hard to have a world class flagship...FWD doesn't cut it if they want to take on the big league brands (BMW, M-B, and Lexus all have RWD flagship sedans, and Cadillac is developing one).

Edited June 17, 2014 by Rob Hall

[Harry P.]

The current MKS is on the Taurus platform, it's not doing well.

Maybe because it's not marketed correctly?

Step one, stop calling it an "MKS" and call it a "Continental." Use the consumer brand recognition you have already worked to gain! The alphabet-soup names may work in Europe, but traditionally we've named our cars. A name can really stick in the consumer's mind, a jumble of letters not so much.

Ask people who makes an "MKS" and who makes (made) a "Continental" and you'll see.

"You have an MKS? Is that like a TG4? Or a ZYQ? Who makes that, anyhow?"

What sticks in consumers' minds more? MKS or Continental?

Impala... Firebird... Corvette... Charger...Torino...Electra... Thunderbird...Mustang....Challenger...Eldorado...Riviera. You get my point. Iconic American cars with iconic names, not some generic meaningless alphanumeric "name."

I believe Ford needs to make more of an effort to differentiate the Lincoln brand. A "proper" model name would be a start.

[Rob Hall]

Maybe because it's not marketed correctly?

Step one, stop calling it an "MKS" and call it a "Continental." The alphabet-soup names may work in Europe, but traditionally we've named our cars. A name can really stick in the consumer's mind, a jumble of letters not so much.

"You have an MKS? Is that like a TG4? Or a ZYQ? Who makes that, anyhow?"

What sticks in consumers' minds more? MKS or Continental?

Impala... Firebird... Corvette... Charger...Torino...Electra... Thunderbird...Mustang....Challenger...Eldorado...Riviera. You get my point. Iconic American cars with iconic names, not some generic meaningless alphanumeric "name."

I believe Ford needs to make more of an effort to differentiate the Lincoln brand. A "proper" model name would be a start.

The MKS is a decent car, but rather dull and blandly styled. Lincoln seems to be all in w/ the Olds tribute grilles, but their current styling doesn't seem to be working...

[Harry P.]

The MKS is a decent car, but rather dull and blandly styled.

See my previous comment regarding styling that stands out from the crowd.

[Rob Hall]

See my previous comment regarding styling that stands out from the crowd.

Yes..I remember 10 years ago or so they had a concept car that had a modern spin on the razor sharp '60s Continental styling...I liked that...

[Harry P.]

Yes..I remember 10 years ago or so they had a concept car that had a modern spin on the razor sharp '60s Continental styling...I liked that...

So why did they go with a bland gussied-up Ford instead?

I swear, give me 10 minutes with their muckety-mucks and I'd set them straight.

[Rob Hall]

So why did they go with a bland gussied-up Ford instead?

Cost, I'm sure..same reason Cadillac has the XTS which is in on a platform shared w/ the Impala and LaCrosse. (though they are developing a RWD flagship). Exclusivity in platforms, drivetrains, etc is expensive...

Edited June 17, 2014 by Rob Hall

[Harry P.]

Cost, I'm sure..same reason Cadillac has the XTS which is in on a platform shared w/ the Impala and LaCrosse. (though they are developing a RWD flagship).

Styling doesn't increase cost (assuming it's feasible as far as manufacturing).

Do your cost-cutting under the skin. Share platforms, share parts, share assembly lines. But for God's sake, put a distinctive skin on the thing!

Lincolns of the '50s-'60s had some of the most distinctive, classy, and memorable styling of all time. They looked like Lincolns. When you saw one, you knew what you were looking at. Today, that distinctiveness has disappeared for the most part. Way too many generic designs that look 90-95% like the other guy's stuff.

They already have stylists on the payroll. Let them do their thing!

[Harry P.]

If Ford did nothing else except begin badging and advertising the car as a "Continental," sales would pick up.

[Rob Hall]

Of Lincoln's current models, I do think the MKZ is pretty distinctive...it shares its dirty bits with the Fusion, but has a distinctive skin. Though I'm not sure what the competition is for it...maybe the Acura TL/TLX, Buick Regal and Chrysler 200..

Edited June 17, 2014 by Rob Hall

[Harry P.]

Of Lincoln's current models, I do think the MKZ is pretty distinctive...it shares its dirty bits with the Fusion, but has a distinctive skin.

But what the heck is an "MKZ?" Sounds like an assault rifle.

Give the car an actual name, for crying out loud. People respond viscerally to names, not letters.

[Rob Hall]

But what the heck is an "MKZ?" Sounds like an assault rifle.

Give the car an actual name, for crying out loud. People respond viscerally to names, not letters.

Yeah, names would be nice. Other brands have had mixed success with alphanumerics. Infiniti is going through a weird change..instead of their current lineup of G,M,EX,FX,JX,QX they are going 'Q' for cars and 'QX' for CUVs and SUVs, with only numeric suffixes distinguishing models. I don't think that is going to work.

[Harry P.]

Yeah, names would be nice. Other brands have had mixed success with alphanumerics. Infiniti is going through a weird change..instead of their current lineup of G,M,EX,FX,JX,QX they are going 'Q' for cars and 'QX' for CUVs and SUVs, with only numeric suffixes distinguishing models. I don't think that is going to work.

The whole alphabet-soup style of "naming" cars comes from Europe, where a lot of car "names" are based on engine size. Fine for them... but we're not Europe, we're the US.

Cars with actual "names" worked just fine in the past. And they would work now, but too many big brains in the American auto industry don't get it.

Again... simply drop the alphabet soup, give the current Lincolns real names, and even if you do nothing else, sales numbers will rise.

[Rob Hall]

The whole alphabet-soup style of "naming" cars comes from Europe, where a lot of car "names" are based on engine size. Fine for them... but we're not Europe, we're the US.

Cars with actual "names" worked just fine in the past. And they would work now, but too many big brains in the American auto industry don't get it.

Again... simply drop the alphabet soup, give the current Lincolns real names, and even if you do nothing else, sales numbers will rise.

Yeah, though I love Cadillac's current models, I do miss names like 'Fleetwood', 'deVille', 'Biarittz', 'Eldorado', etc...

[Harry P.]

Yeah, though I love Cadillac's current models, I do miss names like 'Fleetwood', 'deVille', 'Biarittz', 'Eldorado', etc...

You have to wonder... would those iconic names help sales? Or hurt? I know what I think.

Building brand recognition is a huge part of marketing. Really the whole point of marketing. I don't understand why the auto industry has largely abandoned the brand recognition they worked so hard to gain and started calling their cars "ABCs"...

[Rob Hall]

You have to wonder... would those iconic names help sales? Or hurt? I know what I think.

Building brand recognition is a huge part of marketing. Really the whole point of marketing. I don't understand why the auto industry has largely abandoned the brand recognition they worked so hard to gain and started calling their cars "ABCs"...

I suspect the marketing organization would think those names are too old to sell to younger buyers...

Edited June 17, 2014 by Rob Hall

[Tom Geiger]

If Ford did nothing else except begin badging and advertising the car as a "Continental," sales would pick up.

You think they would've used the lesson learned from the Ford 500.... they replaced the well known Taurus with this one... and within a year or two renamed it Taurus!

[unclescott58]

I hate to question Tim Boyd on anything. But, Tim that commercial was from 1986. Not 1988. And as far as Lincoln being the number 1 luxury car at the time? I know Eldorado and Seville were dogs at the time of their redesign in the late 80's. But, I thought the DeVilles and Fleetwoods sold fairly well. I know the Buick Electra/Park Avenue sold well for sure. And even that generation Olds 98 was somewhat popular. The only time I thought Lincoln knocked Caddy off it's thrown was in the early 2000's?

I was in college from 1986 though 1991. I was and am good friends with the owner of a Buick store at that time, who I eventually went to work for. So I followed the success of the new mid-1980's GM front wheel drive C-bodies at the time. During the late 90's, all through the 2000's I worked for that dealer. At that time they owned both a Buick/Jeep (and Eagle) and a Lincoln/Mercury franchise. We sold a lot of Town Cars, Navigators, and Grand Marquis through our Lincoln/Mercury store. But, our big seller at the time was the Jeep Grand Cherokee. About 10 years ago, they closed the Buick/Jeep store in the intercity. Moved to an outer suburb, keeping Buick, and adding Pontiac and GMC. About the time Ford discontinued Mercury, they then sold the Lincoln franchise to a Ford store (?).

Interesting watching both GM and Ford destroy fairly good selling brands of the mid-80's. Buick and Oldsmobile were doing very well at that time. Pontiac had come back from near collapse in the early 80's. Mercury was a slight confused mess. But, Sable and Grand Marquis sold well. The Lincoln Town Car was hot. And the new 1988 Coninental was well received. How did they screw things up so badly?

I've been a big Buick fan for years. My folks drove Oldsmobiles and Mercurys. My one sister drives nothing but Cadillacs. As time goes on I'm less enamored with today cars. They're great cars from a reliability and durability standpoint. But, they do not stir my soul. They are bland and boring. I have not been turned on by a Lincoln since the pre-1980 Continental and Mark V. The last Town Car in its final form was OK. But, that's about it.

Scott

[unclescott58]

I'm sorry, I misread what Tim Boyd had to say. He did not say the commercial was from 1988. And he talk about Lincoln being the number 1 luxury car in 1998. So I'm wrong and Mr. Boyd is again right. And I should read more carefully.

All of the rest still applies, though.

Scott

Edited June 18, 2014 by unclescott58

[charlie8575]

The whole alphabet-soup style of "naming" cars comes from Europe, where a lot of car "names" are based on engine size. Fine for them... but we're not Europe, we're the US.

Cars with actual "names" worked just fine in the past. And they would work now, but too many big brains in the American auto industry don't get it.

Again... simply drop the alphabet soup, give the current Lincolns real names, and even if you do nothing else, sales numbers will rise.

Agreed. Go back to my proposal waaaaay back. Here's a few names we could try.

Town Car- big flagship with full-frame construction (or at least Chrysler style unit/sub-frame construction,) Coyote V8 power and a strong (Prius-type) hybrid available or a diesel, all engines have stop/start to get great in-city mileage.

Navigator- Anti-Escalade; ditch the '15 twin-turbo V6 and go with a diesel V8 or hybrid gas Coyote V8.

Continental (MKS)- A6/E-Class/GS-ES fighter. Eco-Tec V6 and all-wheel-drive standard. Start-stop standard with disable feature to keep engine running in conditions where stop-and-go/slow/poor acceleration is a problem, like snow and ice.

Zephyr(MKZ)- 3-series/C-Class/A4 fighter. V-6 with or without hybrid and start-stop. All-wheel-drive standard.

Mark IX (new car)- halo car, perhaps to sell against the Infiniti G-series coupes. Mustang-derived. Choice of Eco-Tec V6 or Coyote V8.

Capri- Four-seat convertible. Small V8 standard.

Aviator (MKX)- mid-sized crossover to sell against the RX, Audi Q-series, Infiniti's overstuffed Pathfinder, SRX and the BMW X5.

Premier (MKT)- I'm not entirely sure what it would compete against, but it seems to have found a niche with limo companies that want something a little smaller than a Navigator.

Blackwood (MKC)- small, nicely appointed utility vehicle, stretched Escape platform for a little extra rear legroom, small Eco-Tec V6 and AWD standard with start/stop.

Good start?

Charlie Larkin

Edited June 18, 2014 by charlie8575

[Danno]

Wow. This thread has really swerved around from the original subject to very questionable politics and has become very loopy. To even bring up ACA here is totally dumbass and has zero to do with the subject..

Not true at all. ACA will have everything to do with everything. To ignore that and pretend otherwise is to ignore basic economic principles (with or without 'political' inferences, it doesn't matter). To believe otherwise requires continual Kool-Aid consumption and 'suspension of disbelief.'

NOT a political statement, a factual statement.

[Harry P.]

Agreed. Go back to my proposal waaaaay back. Here's a few names we could try.

Town Car- big flagship with full-frame construction (or at least Chrysler style unit/sub-frame construction,) Coyote V8 power and a strong (Prius-type) hybrid available or a diesel, all engines have stop/start to get great in-city mileage.

Navigator- Anti-Escalade; ditch the '15 twin-turbo V6 and go with a diesel V8 or hybrid gas Coyote V8.

Continental (MKS)- A6/E-Class/GS-ES fighter. Eco-Tec V6 and all-wheel-drive standard. Start-stop standard with disable feature to keep engine running in conditions where stop-and-go/slow/poor acceleration is a problem, like snow and ice.

Zephyr(MKZ)- 3-series/C-Class/A4 fighter. V-6 with or without hybrid and start-stop. All-wheel-drive standard.

Mark IX (new car)- halo car, perhaps to sell against the Infiniti G-series coupes. Mustang-derived. Choice of Eco-Tec V6 or Coyote V8.

Capri- Four-seat convertible. Small V8 standard.

Aviator (MKX)- mid-sized crossover to sell against the RX, Audi Q-series, Infiniti's overstuffed Pathfinder, SRX and the BMW X5.

Premier (MKT)- I'm not entirely sure what it would compete against, but it seems to have found a niche with limo companies that want something a little smaller than a Navigator.

Blackwood (MKC)- small, nicely appointed utility vehicle, stretched Escape platform for a little extra rear legroom, small Eco-Tec V6 and AWD standard with start/stop.

Good start?

Charlie Larkin

I definitely could get on board with this if I were a bigshot at Ford. Maybe the only problem is that it's a bit too ambitious. I'd trim the number of models back, at least for the time being, and make the "new" Lincoln Division's debut a little "cleaner."

Just my opinion, of course, but since Ford already offers a ton of "crossovers" and utes and pickups, in my theoretical world I'd keep Lincoln a luxury car only division and avoid product overlap with Ford. I'd definitely offer a Continental, A Mark, and maybe a Zephyr and/or Town Car. But nothing else, and definitely not a pickup in any form. "Lincoln" and "pickup" don't work... it's like offering a Buick pickup.

I would absolutely give the new Lincolns their own distinctive styling, not just warmed-over or gussied-up Fords. I'd go so far as to make the styling so different and unique that some might see it as going too far... but if you saw a new Lincoln on the street, you'd know it was a Lincoln.

[Danno]

I concur with Harry and Charlie and everyone else who bemoans the "trendy" Euro-alphabet soup nomenclature practice. Domestic manufacturers abandoned the character of their products when they went with the ABC-school. The real problem with it all is that there is no character or heritage like there was before cars became Starbucks.

Imagine the loss of provenance if Chevy decided to call its Corvette something trendy like "SCT." Sell more? I don't think so. (Unless they renamed it "SEX.")

Like Harry, I think even existing products would have more appeal to more buyers if they were differentiated from all the AQSTCHVLs available at all the other dealerships.

[Aaronw]

Agreed. Go back to my proposal waaaaay back. Here's a few names we could try.

Capri- Four-seat convertible. Small V8 standard.

Poor Capri, started as a pretty nifty, stand alone Ford sport coupe, one of the successes in the gas crisis 70s. Then became a Mercury Mustang, then an odd, but kind of interesting Mercury "Miata" and now you suggest it become a Lincoln?

Capri would have been a good possible name for a performance version of the Focus or Fiesta.

Personally I think Lincoln should be looking at Cadillac. These are luxury brands, they don't need a car for every niche, and should focus on their strengths. Lincoln and Cadillac are brands that are hurt when they try to be everything to everybody. Cadillac seems to have learned from its attempts to puts frills on low end Chevrolets.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Aaronw

[1930fordpickup]

Maybe they should call it the BR549 Harry. Showing my age.

The big problem with the luxury car market to me is simple. I can get almost everything on a Ford I can get on the Lincoln . No step up with options , power everything in the Focus and others. Why spend the extra cash.