CHEETAH

[slusher]

In case you've never seen the Modelhaus kit , here's what it looks like .

Very nice !

Real nice kit...

[Austin T]

If Model Factory Hiro made this kit who knows what they would charge for it.

What's the going rate for a liver again?

[DonW]

Good from a modeling standpoint but a terrible 1:1 idea. About 200 pounds more than a 377SBC and 100 more than a427BBC.

These are a real 'death ride'-moreso than a Cobra even. Blazing heat, deafening inside, and snap rolls like an aerobatic champ. You needed big ones to get decent and consistent lap times out of it.

Must be the only road car since the brass era with the engine in literally in the middle but still in front of the driver where it should be. A couple of quotes from Diseno-art.com website that I found:

'Because the chassis was not stiff enough, the Cheetah exhibited quirky handling characteristics at high speeds.'

'"Cheetah Race Cars" has gotten permission from one of the original creators of the Cheetah (Thomas) to create "continuation" cars that are advertised as faithful to the original with updated engineering and reliability, but without the problems of the replicas.'

With such a low polar moment of inertia, snap oversteer would be the big problem and, as Cato says, the Cheetah makes the Cobra look safe. And there aren't too many cars like that since the brass era either. But what a way to go!

[Cato]

Must be the only road car since the brass era with the engine in literally in the middle but still in front of the driver where it should be.

The Panoz road and race cars were situated in similar fashion. Maybe a few more but can't remember off hand. Several like the Cobra have engines set well back from front axle centerline but not amidships. My car's weight distribution is 48 / 52 wet and 47 / 53 w/ driver.

[DonW]

Hi Cato

Is that f/r or r/f?

[Ace-Garageguy]

...With such a low polar moment of inertia, snap oversteer would be the big problem ...

In my own experience, rear-engined cars like the Porsche 911(with a relatively higher polar moment of inertia and a rear weight bias) are much more susceptible to "snap oversteer" (also known as "lift-off oversteer") than mid-engined cars (either "front-mid-engined" like the Panoz and Cheetahs or the typical mid-engined cars with the more familiar layout of the Porsche 914, Boxster and Cayman, Ferrari 360, etc).

A relatively low polar moment of inertia and even front-to-rear weight distribution tends, generally (and this is vastly oversimplified, as many MANY factors combine to determine a particular car's handling) to make both ends of the car lose traction at about the same time. That results in a sideways slide rather than a sudden swapping of ends, as in classic tail-heavy snap-oversteer. It also tends to make the car somewhat easier to maintain in a 4-wheel drift than either front or tail-heavy cars with higher relative polar moments.

As I said, MANY factors combine to effect handling, including tire size and compound, the specific design of the suspension geometry, variables in suspension setup and alignment, and road conditions and temperature.

Front engined cars with a forward weight bias tend to understeer and plow, while rear engined cars like Porsches may plow initially (the earlier Porsches didn't, but later ones seem to have more initial understeer built in) but tend to have the tails come unstuck first when you lift off the throttle...especially if you touch the brakes in a hard corner. A slow-to-react or inexperienced driver of a tail-heavy car may well find himself heading backwards off the track. It can also happen in a front-engined car, but you get more warning, and typical front-weight-bias too-hot-cornering results in the front wheels sliding off the track in a looser line than the steering angle would indicate.

A car with a relatively low polar moment of inertia will be more responsive in general, and will respond to steering inputs quicker because there's not a big pendulum hanging out on either end resisting direction change. It's this willingness to respond that can bite a driver who's just a fraction behind the curve.

That said, when a mid-engined car DOES start to slide or spin, it can be very difficult for a less-experienced driver to regain control, and the transition from steady-state controlled cornering to a spin or slide can be very sudden when driving at close to the limit of adhesion during lateral acceleration.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Greg Myers]

The "Instant Motion" car was built for drag racing.

there were others

Edited March 5, 2014 by Greg Myers

[Ace-Garageguy]

Just pure adrenaline charged sexy.

[Cato]

Hi Cato

Is that f/r or r/f?

F/R verified by scaling.

[DonW]

A car with a relatively low polar moment of inertia will be more responsive in general, and will respond to steering inputs quicker because there's not a big pendulum hanging out on either end resisting direction change. It's this willingness to respond that can bite a driver who's just a fraction behind the curve.

That said, when a mid-engined car DOES start to slide or spin, it can be very difficult for a less-experienced driver to regain control, and the transition from steady-state controlled cornering to a spin or slide can be very sudden when driving at close to the limit of adhesion during lateral acceleration.

Thanks Bill. I agree with your general point that cars with a big polar moment do have that sort of dumbbell effect, my comment has more to do with the general 'twitchiness' that short wheelbase cars with the weight concentrated in the middle tend to share, as you say in your last 2 paragraphs. Mike Hawthorn never really got on with 'Super squalo' GP Ferraris for that reason. The Cheetah could never be said to understeer, that's for sure!

[cobraman]

As much as I am a die hard Cobra fan I must admit this car speaks to me. I love it. I will need to breakdown and get the Modelhaus kit sometime soon. Might make a cool diorama racing a Cobra with the Cobra a bit out in front. : )

[DonW]

So will they be facing forwards or backwards? Or just a little sideways...

[cobraman]

Yes ! : )

[jrherald420]

I also would love to see this kit more affordable, but heck the way ive been spending i guess i could buy the full detail resin one posted above..........lol

[Bill J]

I recall from that era seeing it race in some events like the 12 hr Sebring and some shorter SCCA races, the Cheetah was not very successful. Way too squirrely for the drivers to handle and they broke early. Or maybe they were broken early as a matter of survival.

I think if the Cheetah had the same level of success as the Cobra or even the Corvette Grand Sport, there would be a regular model kit. The Grand Sport was fun to watch and cool to look at but it had little success as a race car at the time.

What I would really love to see is an accurate and affordable Cobra Daytona Coupe kit. It won the World Sports Car championship for the first time for the USA. In it's short race career it was very successful.

[RancheroSteve]

There was a recent EBay auction that had six slot car bodies - including a good Cox Cheetah and a good Revell FIA Cobra - that closed at $85. I thought it would have gone for way more - go figure.

Here's a link to my Cheetah build (using the MiniExotics kit) from 2011: http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=48801&hl=cheetah

And the end result: http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51190&hl=cheetah

The Modelhaus kit looks like it's essentially the same as what I used - both appear to be closely based on the Cox Cheetah static kit.

[TooOld]

I received my junkyard today and here are photos of the Cheetah body .

It's not a Cox body and it's not cut , it is a 2 - piece body and it is very thin . The 3 3/4 " wheelbase makes it 1/24th scale .

Someone has filled the openings in the hood and lightly sanded the entire body but otherwise it's in very good shape ! In all of my searches I've never seen another like it and haven't a clue who made it .

[cobraman]

Did Strombecker make one ?

[afx]

Looks to me like HRM's body which is a two piece.

Edited March 6, 2014 by afx

[RancheroSteve]

Did Strombecker make one ?

Yes, they did. Both 1/32 and 1/24.

[Burnout]

Does anyone know if the HRM kit is actually available? During my limited search, I kept running into dead ends. One of the online shops that carries HRM kits mentioned the resin caster may be dealing with some health issues. Thanks in advance, Ken

[Speedfreak]

Does anyone know if the HRM kit is actually available? During my limited search, I kept running into dead ends. One of the online shops that carries HRM kits mentioned the resin caster may be dealing with some health issues. Thanks in advance, Ken

Ken, Red Frog Hobbies and Strada Sports both show the HRM kit but they both want like $175.00 for them.

Wow, The placement of the engine in this car is unreal, no wonder it handled so poorly.

[RancheroSteve]

I'd guess there were multiple issues, but from what I've read, the bad handling was due more to excessive chassis flex, and that the Cheetah was never properly designed to be a race car.

[cobraman]

Although I am a die hard Cobra fan I have always though the Cheetah was a very cool car. I have been thinking about Cheetah's since this thread had been started. Soooooooo today I broke down and ordered the Cheetah resin kit from Modelhaus. 70 bucks delivered. It will take 4 to 6 weeks to get since they make on order and have no stock on hand. : (

[jrherald420]

I just sold a built 1/43 scale GTM Thomas Cheetah on Ebay for 42.00. People go crazy for these things!! I was hoping to raise the finds to buy one of the HRM Cheetah and Daytona Cobra kits. Getting close to one of them!!